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PostSep 20, 2012#2451

I heard the gun battle at Jefferson and Shenandoah (that's the intersection where the gay bar and the chocalate shop is). I guess three suspects died in a car crash on the Grand Bridge during a police pursuit. Sad that people died but we're probably all better off.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... f6878.html

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PostSep 20, 2012#2452

^Not at all sad they died. They obviously didn't have much concern for the value of life as they were firing shots indiscriminantly into houses. Glad we don't have to pay to prosecute them and keep them alive in jail. Hope the last one dies as well.

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PostSep 20, 2012#2453

^ yep.

well, it didn't take long to break in the new viaduct, st. louis-style.

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PostSep 20, 2012#2454

The shootings were NOT at Jefferson & Shenandoah. They were on the 2300 & 2500 blocks of Minnesota.

Greg

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PostSep 20, 2012#2455

gregl wrote:The shootings were NOT at Jefferson & Shenandoah. They were on the 2300 & 2500 blocks of Minnesota.

Greg
I'm not so sure. Yes, the Minnesota addresses are what's in the paper but I heard multiple shots clear as day and I'm not anywhere near 2300 Minnnesota and I immediately tuned into the police scanner via TuneIn radio and they mentioned specifically shots NEAR Jefferson and Shenandoah AND something about Indiana Ave which is a long way from 2300 Minnesota. All this was BEFORE the stated times of the Minnesota shots. For the record I've tuned into a police scanner about three times in my life. Don't want anyone to think I'm some freak hunched over a police scanner 24/7. The shots were close.

Sorry to be breaking this down like it's the grassy knoll and JFK. I'm just pointing this out.

How do you know for a fact there weren't shots near Jefferson and Shenandoah and possibly Indiana Ave?

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PostSep 23, 2012#2456

I've had numerous conversations where people have started to say downtown and the cwe are "rough." This disappoints me because I know they are fairly safe, but given the high profile crimes lately, I can see why people perceive them that way.

I just thought I'd ask the forum what they think the consensus is. In your conversations with people, are they saying how those neighborhoods have worsened lately?

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PostSep 23, 2012#2457

I don't know if I ever heard from my colleagues and family in West County that the CWE and Downtown weren't rough to begin with. I was warned in 2008 not to move to the CWE because I would get mugged and robbed, and when I moved to south St. Louis in 2010 I was warned I would get burglarized. IMHO, the perception has consistently been one of danger rather than a lull and an uptick with recent high-profile crimes.

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PostSep 23, 2012#2458

realclear wrote:I've had numerous conversations where people have started to say downtown and the cwe are "rough."
Both Downtown and CWE are definitely not "rough" IMO. I'd expect statements like that to come from those not familiar with either neighborhoods or urban environments in general, or basing their feelings on what isolated incidents they read/hear in local news. A downtown resident for 4+ years, I feel very safe down here.

Rambling side comment: The urban/suburban divide/disconnect in the STL metro region never ceases to amaze me. The vast majority of the time when conversing with people from the county or other neighboring regions they general have very little geographical knowledge of the city and have a general perception that if its an area in "the city" that safety is questionable. They're missing out IMO... But thats my opinion...

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PostOct 09, 2012#2459

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/342267 ... e-suspects

Thugs seem to be targeting Dogtown lately, for armed robberies. 1 last night on Clayton, same guys
hit a guy on Skinker, old lady on the way to church a few Sundays ago and a lady near
Turtle Park a few months ago. I'm not sure what other stuff has not been reported
or covered in the media. Interesting that they are targeting victims and finding
plenty of them during the overnight hours. Guess you can't walk your dog late at
night, without the fear of armed robbery, much less walk to church at 8 AM on a Sunday or sit in your car at 2 PM on a Tuesday. Criminals these days are bold and do not
have a pattern of behavior. You must be aware at all hours of the day.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/341226 ... arking-lot

In the same vicinity, same church parking lot, a teacher was carjacked about 2 years
ago. Found her car in East STL. Guess Dogtown is a prime area due to proximity to
major interstates and plethora of victims.

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PostOct 09, 2012#2460

The sky is certainly falling.

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PostOct 09, 2012#2461

^I sense your sarcasm, but this stuff is not acceptable.
It is the 'crime is part of life in the big city' attitude, that allows
crime to fester and go unnoticed. People turn a blind eye to it, if it is
not in their backyard. However, Dogtown is a tight hood. Families start to fear living in the place they love, when they get wind of this stuff. Before you know it,
'for sale' signs pop up in yards. I've lived it, seen it and continue to see it.
I do not have that mentality, but it terrifies families when they have to fear
walking to church at 8 AM on a Sunday. Yes, these crimes are cause for concern!
The tight-knit neighborhood Assoc. just assisted the Police in catching a burglary
ring victimizing Dogtown residents. Crime is very evident here and none of it
should be blown off or taken lightly. Again, that is the attitude that allows
it to fester..................... RANT OVER! :mrgreen:

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PostOct 09, 2012#2462

So KSDK did a story on crime statistics late last week. What do you guys think?


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PostOct 10, 2012#2463

I think it's easy to show a decline in homicide when you start at 2008, as St. Louis had its highest homicide rate since 1995 that year. Homicide rate is a highly variable number, just as are the specific crimes mentioned in that report. Targeting specific types of crime isn't necessarily the best solution to tackle the broader problem of crime (although it makes for better news reports).

The total index crime rate is a bit more of a success story though, as in 2011 it's roughly the same as it was in the mid-1960s; it's been a pretty steady decline since about mid-2004. At no point since the 1960s has the index crime rate steadily declined by as much as it has since 2004, either. In other words, St. Louis had its best several years in crime since the Kennedy administration if you're taking the big picture.

A couple years back I compiled most of the crime data on this table on Wikipedia using FBI crime reports:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_S ... ime_trends

It makes me wonder what the heck happened around here in 1962 and 1963; it's like a crime bomb went off.

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PostOct 10, 2012#2464

The point of those stats, according to the bottom of the screen, is to show what crime did in St. Louis under Police Chief Dan Isom's tenure. I think he was a good chief, and I hope they replace him adequately.

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PostOct 10, 2012#2465

stlhistory wrote:It makes me wonder what the heck happened around here in 1962 and 1963; it's like a crime bomb went off.
I'd figure that's when the baby-boomers started entering the prime crime-committing age-range.

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PostOct 10, 2012#2466

I'd like to know how those numbers are calculated. I think they have many
creative ways to fudge the numbers. I don't know how they calculate the numbers,but
I think a crime should be counted individually. If 10 cars are broken into,
there are 10 car break-ins, not one.

All I can say, is I've lived in South City ALL of my life. I'm 37 years old.
I do not remember crime being so visible. Maybe it is because the majority of
crimes were on the Northside when I was growing up. Now that the Southside has
a lot more gun crimes, it seems like crime is worse, even though the stats
say different. Maybe now that the issues are closer, it seems like crime is getting worse. I think that gun crimes are worse these days. I do not recall
hearing about shootings in areas of South City, that we are now seeing them
in. I'd like to see a chart with murders, robberies,etc... going from 95'-present.
Then I'd have a better visual.

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PostOct 10, 2012#2467

rawest1 wrote:The point of those stats, according to the bottom of the screen, is to show what crime did in St. Louis under Police Chief Dan Isom's tenure. I think he was a good chief, and I hope they replace him adequately.
I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said, I just don't know if it's the best way to characterize crime fighting in the city by pulling out statistics on specific crimes. The bigger picture of both violent and property index crime still supports Isom (who played a vital role in the revitalization of public perception of the force and in crime-fighting initiatives both before and during his tenure as chief) in tandem with the revitalization efforts targeting areas like South Grand, the Grove, etc., that had formerly been highly problematic in terms of crime.

That's not to say that those places don't have crime issues now, or that crime is down everywhere in the city. The issues with crime in Dogtown and elsewhere can be attributed (at least so I've heard at neighborhood meetings) to the efforts in higher crime areas pushing criminal activity to less patrolled areas that traditionally had lower crime rates.

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PostOct 10, 2012#2468

Also note that the statistics cited were not per resident. That is, when considering crimes per person in the city, the decreases would be less.

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PostOct 10, 2012#2469

All the energy spent by civic leaders pearl clutching about our rankings and statistics on this and that report isn't doing balls all about the crime itself.

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PostOct 10, 2012#2470

^ Huh, I often think the opposite, that our civic leaders and elected officials do not do enough to contest the bogus rankings or promote a better understanding of crime statistics. Of course if they do they're accused of not doing anything substantive to battle crime.

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PostOct 10, 2012#2471

DogtownBnR wrote:I'd like to see a chart with murders, robberies,etc... going from 95'-present.
Then I'd have a better visual.
I'll make one tonight when I get a chance (might take a bit for me to get the FBI numbers for specific crimes).

PostOct 11, 2012#2472


Homicide rate (1985 to 2010)


Rape rate (1985 to 2010)


Robbery rate (1985 to 2010)

All per 100,000 residents.

PostOct 11, 2012#2473

Just as a note, homicide tracks closely with weather; http://www.crh.noaa.gov/lsx/climate/cli ... rly+Charts has 2003 precipitation and temperature ranges compared to normal. Especially in the peak murder months of July, August, and September, it rained a great deal in 2003 (which might or might not explain the decline in murder for that year).

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PostOct 11, 2012#2474

I found out yesterday that the victim of armed robbery in Dutchtown last Thursday evening 10/4 (unreported in the P-D) was the son of a coworker. The young man was just a few doors from his home when he was robbed and then shot in the abdomen. It apparently was random - he didn't know his assailant and from what I understand didn't resist the robbery. He is expected to survive his injury.

-RBB

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PostOct 11, 2012#2475

Nice charts... Bet it would be instructive to add a second series of unemployment rate. They'd rise and fall similarly.

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