I dont believe the city is 'cutting' 80 police officers. These officers are retiring and they aren't being replaced. The city doesnt have money to hire more.
- 2,386
I mean, if the city has 400 officers now and they cut 80, they have 320 to now do the work the 400 were doing. But if the city has 400 officers now and 80 retire and they don't hire new ones (ALSO KNOWN AS CUTTING THE POSITIONS), the city has 320 police officers to to the work 400 were doing.
They are cutting 80 officers, period. We will have 80 less officers to keep the peace, apprehend criminals, and protect the property of the city. Unacceptable.
They are cutting 80 officers, period. We will have 80 less officers to keep the peace, apprehend criminals, and protect the property of the city. Unacceptable.
- 1,642
Does anyone know when the city will potentially have 80 less coppers?
Will it be before or after the Zimmerman verdict? Because if you think the Zimmerman
verdict will sneak through the news cycle unnoticed and without some madcap commotion like it
was just another story about some north side double murder you are going to
be in for a shock.
Will it be before or after the Zimmerman verdict? Because if you think the Zimmerman
verdict will sneak through the news cycle unnoticed and without some madcap commotion like it
was just another story about some north side double murder you are going to
be in for a shock.
- 710
Not acceptable. The crime in this city is not acceptable. City Hall is apathetic. We need twice the number of officers that we have. And please don't tell me that it just comes down to the neighborhoods and residents to turn around neighborhoods, the City IS NOT holding up their end. That is all.
- 11K
^ Given the results it's easy to take that point of view, but then what does it mean that St. Louis has more police officers per capita than nearly any other city? Should we have far and away more officers per capita? Why? Is there really no other way to address crime and more police officers?
- 1,642
Mayor Slay can't possibly think 80 less police officers is a good idea can he? There has got to be a way
to keep or increase the number of police officers. Appeal to the President publicly and demand the money to keep
the city safe and properly policed and dare him to turn you down after they found $700 billion for a stimulus . As far as the per capita thing...if this was Boise I'd say you had a good point. But considering the crime stats and the
demographics in Stl I think we can all agree we need a unusually high number of cops.
to keep or increase the number of police officers. Appeal to the President publicly and demand the money to keep
the city safe and properly policed and dare him to turn you down after they found $700 billion for a stimulus . As far as the per capita thing...if this was Boise I'd say you had a good point. But considering the crime stats and the
demographics in Stl I think we can all agree we need a unusually high number of cops.
- 11K
^ Not talking Boise. Do we need twice the officers per capita than Detroit? Baltimore? Chicago? Memphis?
No one wants to lose 80 officers, but you also have to look into the financial side of it.
Like Alex said, we have the most officers per capita in the country.
So either we just have much more crime than other cities or there is something lacking in the way our police goes about law enforcement.
I can't say what is reality.
We've had issues with crime for a long time. I'd be interested to see how crime rates have risen or fallen against the numbers of officers over the years.
Like Alex said, we have the most officers per capita in the country.
So either we just have much more crime than other cities or there is something lacking in the way our police goes about law enforcement.
I can't say what is reality.
We've had issues with crime for a long time. I'd be interested to see how crime rates have risen or fallen against the numbers of officers over the years.
- 11K
I don't think STL has the most officers per capita in the country, but we're on par with places like Baltimore, Memphis, Chicago, etc.
Just for accuracy, we currently have about 1350 police officers, not including all the private security there is in some neighborhoods. 80 is a pretty big cut. I think that's the opener, and many of us will try to get some of those positions back in during the budget process. There is no possible way we can have twice as many police officers. Police occupy by far the largest portion of our budget. Why do pension costs go up? People are living longer than what was once expected and the pension fund performance has been a little subpar.
Many of those officers have been partially "offset" by an increase in our corrections dept., in an effort to keep people accused of violent offenses in jail before trial. Our jail population was way up last year, not because of a crime increase but because of higher bonds for crimes committed with weapons. We probably need 2 - 3 years of data before we can definitely say if that is working, and we're at about year one.
You can't really have this discussion without again pointing out that we have state board controlled PD. The PD replicates many city departments. Internal estimates are $4 million in immediate savings from a city controlled PD. That's about 70 officers right there. We do have a high number of police per capita, but its hard to argue against that. Also - I often wonder what the daytime police per capita looks like, given that our noon population is much higher than our midnight pop.
Scott Ogilvie
24th Ward Ald.
Many of those officers have been partially "offset" by an increase in our corrections dept., in an effort to keep people accused of violent offenses in jail before trial. Our jail population was way up last year, not because of a crime increase but because of higher bonds for crimes committed with weapons. We probably need 2 - 3 years of data before we can definitely say if that is working, and we're at about year one.
You can't really have this discussion without again pointing out that we have state board controlled PD. The PD replicates many city departments. Internal estimates are $4 million in immediate savings from a city controlled PD. That's about 70 officers right there. We do have a high number of police per capita, but its hard to argue against that. Also - I often wonder what the daytime police per capita looks like, given that our noon population is much higher than our midnight pop.
Scott Ogilvie
24th Ward Ald.
Here's an idea. Fire 80 firemen and make them police officers (pun intended). We have too many firemen playing poker in the firehouse/rescuing the occasional cat on the roof and not enough police on the street doing the work we really need.
We need more police and less firemen.
We need more police and less firemen.
Per capita is misleading because not all areas in the city are subject to the same level of crime. Saint Louis has a serious crime problem, needs to maintain its current force, if not get more officers, and incentivize them to live in the city. If taxes need to be raised then so be it. Cutting public safety in a place which has already had more than 30 murders must be considered unacceptable. These cuts will impact those who already live in dangerous neighborhoods the most. These are the places needing more policing and more public investment.
This is a regional problem and we need regional solutions. Public safety should not have such regional disparities. This undermines the economic potential of all municipalities. Saint Louis should unify its police and educational services.
This is a regional problem and we need regional solutions. Public safety should not have such regional disparities. This undermines the economic potential of all municipalities. Saint Louis should unify its police and educational services.
- 1,642
If you're wondering if any of these dorky robot kids had any problems yes they did. A couple of the nerdy robot kids were robbed outside Culinaria of their stupid cell phones and and whatever else stupid gadgets they had.
- 11K
^ Obviously a thread about crime isn't going to be happy-go-lucky, but that's a bit too much.
- 3,767
Burglaries/robberies in Dogtown: (info from Clayton-Tamm Neighborhood Association)
KEEP YOUR EYES PEELED!
Good Morning,
Thank you for your response yesterday. We had a number of people out looking, and calling the police. Please be on the lookout today and report any suspicious behavior to the police. If you see a suspicious car driving up and down your alley, or you notice it passing by your house slowly a number of times, please call the police. The car that was identified yesterday as going up and down the alleys was a Black larger Buick/mercury, no wheel covers on the drivers side, Illinois plates with number P60-1862 (or something close to that). This car was reported seen Sunday and yesterday. Yesterday it was seen at 1pm near St. James, near 1:30pm at West Park and Ripple, at 3pm on the 6400 Block of Lloyd and driving up and down the alleys, and at 4:40pm in the 1400 block of Graham. Please report this vehicle or any other suspicious vehicle that you may see today or this week immediately.
Thank you very much for your attention,
Car doing robberies has been identified. Robbed a house on Dale this afternoon and was last seen at Lloyd/Childress 25 minutes ago. It is a black older mercury, a big car, it has no wheel covers and has Illinois plates. Two african american males in their 20s were seen in this car. This has been identified by multiple people. If you see this vehicle CALL 911 IMMEDIATELY and state where/when you saw it. Please take down ANY details that you can see. Please forward this email to as many people as possible in our area.
Last four digits of the license plate are said to be like 1842.
KEEP YOUR EYES PEELED!
Good Morning,
Thank you for your response yesterday. We had a number of people out looking, and calling the police. Please be on the lookout today and report any suspicious behavior to the police. If you see a suspicious car driving up and down your alley, or you notice it passing by your house slowly a number of times, please call the police. The car that was identified yesterday as going up and down the alleys was a Black larger Buick/mercury, no wheel covers on the drivers side, Illinois plates with number P60-1862 (or something close to that). This car was reported seen Sunday and yesterday. Yesterday it was seen at 1pm near St. James, near 1:30pm at West Park and Ripple, at 3pm on the 6400 Block of Lloyd and driving up and down the alleys, and at 4:40pm in the 1400 block of Graham. Please report this vehicle or any other suspicious vehicle that you may see today or this week immediately.
Thank you very much for your attention,
Car doing robberies has been identified. Robbed a house on Dale this afternoon and was last seen at Lloyd/Childress 25 minutes ago. It is a black older mercury, a big car, it has no wheel covers and has Illinois plates. Two african american males in their 20s were seen in this car. This has been identified by multiple people. If you see this vehicle CALL 911 IMMEDIATELY and state where/when you saw it. Please take down ANY details that you can see. Please forward this email to as many people as possible in our area.
Last four digits of the license plate are said to be like 1842.
- 710
Instead of all of the local occupy protests, maybe we need to be protesting having less police. Seems like the only people who protest anymore are the ones with nothing to loose.
I'd be willing to camp outside city hall to protest loosing cops.
I'd be willing to camp outside city hall to protest loosing cops.
- 3,767
Update on burglaries/robberies in Dogtown (Clayton-tamm Neighborhood Assoc.)
Great News, the persons responsible for the rash of break ins on Monday, and possibly throughout April are now in custody. Thank you to everyone who was looking out, calling the police, patrolling the streets, and getting important information.
The more we can look out for one another and communicate, the greater chance we can stop this type of activity in its tracks. If you see anything suspicious in the future, no matter how minuscule you may think it is, call the police first and get the word out by either posting it on our Facebook page or email me and I will send out the info so we can all be looking out.
Great News, the persons responsible for the rash of break ins on Monday, and possibly throughout April are now in custody. Thank you to everyone who was looking out, calling the police, patrolling the streets, and getting important information.
The more we can look out for one another and communicate, the greater chance we can stop this type of activity in its tracks. If you see anything suspicious in the future, no matter how minuscule you may think it is, call the police first and get the word out by either posting it on our Facebook page or email me and I will send out the info so we can all be looking out.
- 424
I thought the department was closer to 1150 than 1350... And which services are duplicated? IT? Garage? If I'm not mistaken, the Police Department's fleet services division repairs vehicles for several other city services.ward24 wrote:Just for accuracy, we currently have about 1350 police officers, not including all the private security there is in some neighborhoods. 80 is a pretty big cut. I think that's the opener, and many of us will try to get some of those positions back in during the budget process. There is no possible way we can have twice as many police officers. Police occupy by far the largest portion of our budget. Why do pension costs go up? People are living longer than what was once expected and the pension fund performance has been a little subpar.
Many of those officers have been partially "offset" by an increase in our corrections dept., in an effort to keep people accused of violent offenses in jail before trial. Our jail population was way up last year, not because of a crime increase but because of higher bonds for crimes committed with weapons. We probably need 2 - 3 years of data before we can definitely say if that is working, and we're at about year one.
You can't really have this discussion without again pointing out that we have state board controlled PD. The PD replicates many city departments. Internal estimates are $4 million in immediate savings from a city controlled PD. That's about 70 officers right there. We do have a high number of police per capita, but its hard to argue against that. Also - I often wonder what the daytime police per capita looks like, given that our noon population is much higher than our midnight pop.
Scott Ogilvie
24th Ward Ald.
- 1,000
If you are going to delete my reply to this post, you should address why.the count wrote:Here's an idea. Fire 80 firemen and make them police officers (pun intended). We have too many firemen playing poker in the firehouse/rescuing the occasional cat on the roof and not enough police on the street doing the work we really need.
We need more police and less firemen.
As I wrote earlier, the above comment may (or may not) be true but that hardly makes you less of a jerk. Yes, clearly I take issue with the disrespect shown to my profession above.
The forum was reset and some posts were deleted. Dont think the count deleted your reply.
- 2,386
^The Count is not a moderator of NextStL, it would be impossible for him to delete the post.
Also, if the comment is true as you stated originally, that would make him a realist, and by definition stating a fact, which would in turn make it impossible for him to be a jerk, as he is simply stating a fact. (This has been changed to "(may or may not)" which opens up some discussion on the logic trail, as flimsy as it may be)
Additionally, I seriously doubt it was meant personally. If you have been coherent over the last two years you would have certainly noticed that there is a very large movement toward the streamlining (aka elimination) of government jobs in general. In addition, virtually every business has cut, and probably is still cutting jobs. Due to this fact, I don't think there is anything offensive whatsoever in the above comment. Relax a little and enjoy those benefits
(not a dig, just attempting to lighten up the convo.)
LETS GO BLUES!
Also, if the comment is true as you stated originally, that would make him a realist, and by definition stating a fact, which would in turn make it impossible for him to be a jerk, as he is simply stating a fact. (This has been changed to "(may or may not)" which opens up some discussion on the logic trail, as flimsy as it may be)
Additionally, I seriously doubt it was meant personally. If you have been coherent over the last two years you would have certainly noticed that there is a very large movement toward the streamlining (aka elimination) of government jobs in general. In addition, virtually every business has cut, and probably is still cutting jobs. Due to this fact, I don't think there is anything offensive whatsoever in the above comment. Relax a little and enjoy those benefits
(not a dig, just attempting to lighten up the convo.)LETS GO BLUES!
- 1,000
What a mishmash of illogic above.
Didn't mean to imply that I thought the count deleted my reply.
It gets a little old hearing what a leech on society that I am.
Didn't mean to imply that I thought the count deleted my reply.
It gets a little old hearing what a leech on society that I am.
- 2,386
^True story. So...can I complain about how people don't like my chosen profession (finance) right now? Or am I not allowed because you are sensitive about how many firefighters an independent municipality has? Just curious.
The count simply stated that he thought we could use more police and less firefighters. I happen to agree. Why exactly does this make us bad people? If your only argument is that you are one of said firefighters, your argument is flimsy at best.
The count simply stated that he thought we could use more police and less firefighters. I happen to agree. Why exactly does this make us bad people? If your only argument is that you are one of said firefighters, your argument is flimsy at best.
- 1,000
Apparently I'm the only one who read the part where the count suggest that playing poker and getting cats out of trees is all I do.
Shockingly, I replied that he may be correct about needing to adjust the numbers of firefighters in the City. I think that is worth looking at. Still, I do resent him and Conway and Rainford and anyone else who believes or tells the public that all I do is take from the City.
Shockingly, I replied that he may be correct about needing to adjust the numbers of firefighters in the City. I think that is worth looking at. Still, I do resent him and Conway and Rainford and anyone else who believes or tells the public that all I do is take from the City.
- 11K
^ This isn't about you. Presumably no one on this board knows whether you're a good, bad or other firefighter. What people read about are firemen (sometimes in the county) getting perks, taking disability and continuing to work, etc. etc. You have every right to defend "firemen" in general, but everyone recognizes that there are many hardworking, dedicated...great people working as firemen.