urbanSTL

Moorlander wrote:

ttricamo wrote:the act of complaining about this ranking only perpetuates the dreaded St. Louis Mindset.

Tell me, would anyone sit here and complain if we were ranked as the #1 SAFEST city in America yet the overall metro area took us down to #103? Would we all sit here and try and "invalidate" the "questionable statistics" that were used to make the ranking (read: city boundaries)? Questioning the data is a weak defense at best.

Come on, that's human nature not the St. Louis mindset.

In fact, many of us have questioned rankings where St. Louis is ranked as one of the most literate cities in America. And it is due to the same flawed ranking system. They do something like count the number of libraries, and divide by the population. As the population goes down, but libraries don't, St. Louis shoots up the most literate cities list.

Nobody disputes the raw statistics. Nobody says we don't have a crime issue in the city. Its the RANKING that makes no sense, since it is comparing apples to oranges. Explain how St. Louis goes from 1 to 103 when ranking cities vs. metro area, whereas Houston with sprawling city limits goes the other way -- from 45 in the cities list, up to 27th in the metro areas list. If you live in the distant suburbs of Houston, better move to the core for your own safety. The flawed ranking implies your personal safety can be improved just by redrawing city limits. The ranking masks the fact that other cities may have worse core crime AND worse suburban crime than our area. Do we deserve to lose the DNC convention and China hub when those cities point to this ranking?

Sorry if this has been posted already.

A study of crime statistics showed that, with 2,070.1 violent crimes per 100,000 residents, St. Louis was the most violent city in the United States in 2009. What do you think?

"Well, it is such a depressing, pessimistic city, what with that gigantic frown monument they have there."

http://www.theonion.com/articles/st-lou ... city,18538

Instead of disputing the findings and complaining about whether it's accurate or not I really wish everyone can get together and come up with a solution to the problem.

What is everyones solution?

Everyone needs to remember that crime or the fear of crime should not let them become a hermit and refrain from walking the streets. Get out people and keep our sidewalks active. The more eyes on the street the better.

Very True Recent (over the weekend) Story...Friendly Facebook conversation...

Me: So you should stop by St. Louis on your home to Georgia from Chicago...

Friend: Might do that...

(later)

Friend: In St. Louis! Decided to take a bit of a detour. Got in late, but the City is bustling...Will head down to the Arch tomorrow then get on the road...

Me: Awesome! Wish I was there to see you! ...additional recommendations...

Someone else chiming in: You are visiting the most dangerous city in America according to CQ Press...link................

...Anyone else see the attitude difference between one guy's perception and and another guy's reality??? Argh!!!

Mark Groth wrote:And for anyone who complains about having their car broken into and their GPS or phone stolen, I don't feel sorry for you. Fix. The. Naive. Behavior. Get wise, crime happens everywhere.

Quite Franky, I doesn't matter if you feel sorry for me. I was not sharing my crime experiences to elicit any sort of emotion from anyone. I was trying to show everyone the crime problem is real and needs to be addressed. Either way, the facts don't lie: I have experienced some sort of crime every year I've lived in the city proper. This has never happened to me anywhere else (including growing up in North County and living in Europe).

Ultimately, we all want the same thing for this city: for it to prosper. That doesn't happen until we take a much harder stance on crime, which begins with admitting we have a serious issue NOT sweeping the problem under the rug and complaining about statistics.

Fix. The. Crime.

Personally, I would have handled the PR of this issue completely differently.

^So because you experienced no crime while living in the County but did in the city that is supposed to prove something?

I'll tell you what. My car was stolen off the street in early 2003. The very same week my sister's house was broken into and her truck stolen from the garage. My crime happened in the city, my sister's happened in St. Charles.

By my anecdotal story one would think living in St. Charles subjects you to worse crimes than living in the city of St. Louis (as long as you agree having your house broken into is more unsettling than having a car stolen).

Of course I would never suggest that was true, so we see the fallacies of anecdotal evidence.

It is interesting that my family asked if I would move from the city after my car was stolen but it was never suggested to my sister that she should leave St. Charles. Crime happens everywhere, but for some reason many in the metro area seem to think if it happens in the city you can "do something" about it by moving beyond the city limits.

For what it's worth I still live in the city and have not been victimized again in the nearly 8 yrs. since my auto was stolen.

I've lived in the City since 1991, well before I was required to reside here as a City employee. It is and was my choice for many reasons. Increased exposure to crime is a trade off that I decided to make. Now if you think there isn't more crime in St Louis City than in surrounding areas you are just being obstinate. Just how much crime compared to other cities and whether it's getting worse or better and what to do about it are all worthwhile discussions but it just seems silly not to acknowledge certain realities.

Also, I've never been a fan of oversimplified slogans and Fix.The.Crime is no different. What are you proposing?

^It's as useful as Fix.The.Schools. Though the two likely go together.

Has anyone else noticed an increase in shootings lately? Typically, our crime tends to be somewhat cyclical and trends with the temperature change. However, it seems as though there have been a number of shootings even as the temp gets a bit cooler. Perhaps Isom's comments from today's shooting tell the tale?

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 2bc8b.html

Apparently, there is an "on-going feud between gangs in St. Louis." Say what?

It would be nice to have more transparency with these issues.

Isom, with his SLUH and Harvard resume, doesn't impress. I thought he'd be innovative...like Guiliani was cleaning up Manhattan by issuing tickets to every Jaywalker and doing background checks on every said Jaywalker...

I've figured that the uptick was due to a gang issue. The cycle can begin any time of year but it usually starts with a targeted killing of some influential gang leader followed by retaliatory killings that then lead to retaliatory killings and so on and so forth. Isom's comment was the first time I've seen anyone from the SLMPD officially acknowledge that is what's going on though.

It would be nice to follow that up with what action the police are taking though. I agree that some transperancy and frank discussion of what's really happening would be a huge step forward in making the city safer.

Boombox wrote:I've figured that the uptick was due to a gang issue. The cycle can begin any time of year but it usually starts with a targeted killing of some influential gang leader followed by retaliatory killings that then lead to retaliatory killings and so on and so forth. Isom's comment was the first time I've seen anyone from the SLMPD officially acknowledge that is what's going on though.

It would be nice to follow that up with what action the police are taking though. I agree that some transperancy and frank discussion of what's really happening would be a huge step forward in making the city safer.

I'm a little hazy on how discussion can become more frank, and how that translates into lower crime. Could you be more specific?

Yes, I meant the police PR people telling us exactly what's going on, the main areas it's happening in, and the way they are responding to it. This gang feud has obviously been going on the better part of the last month and our police chief is just now saying "oh this is gang related". Ok so which gangs? Where is their territory? What are you doing to stop violence from escalating further?

As for that relating to lower crime, I admit it's a stretch but I think a more "frank" police department would over time lead to more proactive citizens working with them. The fact that many people will refuse to talk to the cops is one of the big things that keeps these feuds going on and on and on. I mean here we have a rival gang doing a bold shooting in broad daylight and I wonder how many people there will tell police "I didn't see nothin".

I can't believe this place hasn't blown up after today's bullet-infested events. This gang war is at a fever pitch. Pretty soon the gangs won't have any more members!

The news in north city St. Louis is just so depressing I turn away.

^^^Wait, you mean to tell me actually acknowledging the crime problem and discussing what actionable steps are being taken to eradicate it would help both to eliminate the crime problem itself and positively influence people's perception of the crime problem (perhaps we get more residents this way)? No way! I would much rather our leadership keep us in the dark about the crime issues in the city and only talk about crime when they're feebly trying to debunk our ranking as the most dangerous city in the United States. *end sarcasm

Irony/Bitter pill some on this forum need to swallow:
Last week - we all debated the validity of our new moniker as The Most Dangerous City in the U.S. Some accepted the title and welcomed the opportunity for our leadership to address the problem head on. While others felt compelled to exercise their St. Louis-ism and defend the city, claiming the stats were skewed and that "crime happens everywhere".
This week - From the PD: "In the last week, there has been a homicide or serious shooting involving multiple victims or a police officer five out of the last seven nights — all in north city neighborhoods."

Steps in the right direction:
St. Louis police chief wants special unit to target crime hot spots
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... mode=story
My take:
I think this is a giant step in the right direction, and a perfect opportunity to for the Mayor to jump on board and say something to the effect of:
"Yep. We have a serious crime problem here. Big ups to Chief Isom for wanting to get more boots on ground in the high-crime areas. I fully intend to use all of my back-door, union, LeftWing, Great White Fatherdom to pour every resource available into squashing this threat like a the cockroaches these people are. This city is on a serious upswing and so help me god this kind of crap is not going to happen on my watch. You can take that to bank, fair citizens."
I would then expect a Commissioner Gordon style press conference (yeah, i said it.) where Isom and Slay detail specifically what these gangs are up to, what we can do as citizens to help alleviate this issue, and what the city is doing as our leadership to create and execute a plan to eliminate these criminal elements. I would expect the following topics to be discussed:
1) What kinds of drugs are these gangs moving? Where is it coming from? Where is it going.
2) Who are these gangs? Who are the major players?
3) What outside resources are we bringing in to take these criminal elements down?
4) Who are the Alderman of these areas? What are they doing to help their constituents? (Although I seriously doubt they're doing anything, because Alderman are effectively worthless)
5) What technologies are we implementing to fight this crime?
6) Here is our tentative plan to fix this issue and here is when we'll be providing updates to you, our citizens, to let you know the plan is working.

Two shot in broad daylight this morning in the Ville http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 2bc8b.html

Man killed overnight in Carondelet
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 2bc8b.html

Isom wants special unit to fight crime ridden areas
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 97c1a.html

81 year old woman killed in East St. Louis
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 5699e.html

Funeral home shooting may not be gang related after all
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 42046.html

Don't forget the 4 people killed in Bonne Terre, MO-- there may also be a fifth victim as another body was found in Washington County, MO.

Sure they probably weren't random crimes--but neither are the vast majority of those in the city.

In order to solve this problem, I think the people running things in St. Louis city and north county are going to have to start cracking heads and laying down the law.

My father was raised in north city, at Halls Ferry circle, and he tells me it was a great neighborhood to live in when he was a child (50s-60s). But that isn't so anymore. The area isn't so nice and it's not a great neighborhood to live in. The transformation of his old neighborhood is quite sad for him.