I did mean the 7th street garage, thanks for catching that. But again, I don't believe it's being removed under this plan or any time soon. Not only does the garage pre-date the America's Center, it predates the Cervetes Center. I'm 99% sure it's owned by an out of town group and they're asking a prohibitively expensive price for the land. It's easily one of the oldest garages downtown, possibly 2nd only to the garage at Chestnut & 17th. It will need to be rebuilt before too long and I'm afraid they'll just replace it with yet another privately owned parking garage,
Goodness I hate that garage. Last time I was in it a few years ago when we went to the car show and it was raining so I decided to park in it. It looked
like it was in desperate need of repair.
I did mean the 7th street garage, thanks for catching that. But again, I don't believe it's being removed under this plan or any time soon. Not only does the garage pre-date the America's Center, it predates the Cervetes Center. I'm 99% sure it's owned by an out of town group and they're asking a prohibitively expensive price for the land. It's easily one of the oldest garages downtown, possibly 2nd only to the garage at Chestnut & 17th. It will need to be rebuilt before too long and I'm afraid they'll just replace it with yet another privately owned parking garage,
I understand it's age and know it's owned by an out of town group that wants a ton of money. But if it does remain, where is the ballroom expansion going? The only way the second floor ballroom can be expanded is by taking the garage: and isn't that what eminent domain is for?
I did mean the 7th street garage, thanks for catching that. But again, I don't believe it's being removed under this plan or any time soon. Not only does the garage pre-date the America's Center, it predates the Cervetes Center. I'm 99% sure it's owned by an out of town group and they're asking a prohibitively expensive price for the land. It's easily one of the oldest garages downtown, possibly 2nd only to the garage at Chestnut & 17th. It will need to be rebuilt before too long and I'm afraid they'll just replace it with yet another privately owned parking garage,
Goodness I hate that garage. Last time I was in it a few years ago when we went to the car show and it was raining so I decided to park in it. It looked
like it was in desperate need of repair.
Same here. I parked in it once when the weather was bad. Everything about that garage sucks. It's sad that it's what out-of-towners park in for convention center events.
Here is a better map. I'm trying to figure out how the ballroom gets doubled in size by leaving the garage that aprice says can't be taken? (the ballroom is 220-229)
I believe the plan is to have the ballroom take over the space in southernmost exhibit halls, (250-251) and that the ballroom pre-conference lobby will face west with a large glass wall looking out to the new grassy area on the 9th street side.
It’s a shame they couldn’t get the holiday inn included in their plan to expand. There is another surface lot directly west of the planned plaza that would be perfect for a new hotel. Then they could have expanded into the planned plaza and old hotel space. That way they could future proof the center to become one of the larger convention centers in the mid south. As it stands, it seems as if they may still end up lagging behind in contiguous convention space in the near future.
Yoinked this picture of the Cervetes Center from the Missouri Historical Society. I also noticed a decently-sized building next to the CC. This building is now where the Holiday Inn is, no? Anyone know what used to be there? Kinda wish we still had it, reminds me of 801 Skinker
I'm sure it was covered previously in this thread, but this seems like a waste of money. We continue to dump money into visitor experiences...luring in people who visit for a matter of days. Imagine this kind of money invested in our neighborhoods for people who live here every day. I get tourism is important; but I'd argue people/buildings that house residents DT is a better investment. I understand this dome was a horrible deal and we're trying to bail it out...
I disagree. In order to have a vibrant downtown you need to a modern up to date convention center. We are losing all the large conventions to cities like Indy, Nashville etc because
our convention center is out of date.
Without a vibrant convention business most of the hotels downtown would shutter IMO.
I agree that we need to compete with other cities. And, this will help fill the increase in downtown hotels. Friends who work downtown have shared with me the increase in business during conventions.
My only concern with this expansion is the continued removal of the street grid downtown. I live here, and it is getting harder to get around. We have one ways that change direction.
Agree with the erosion of street grid concerns. We continue to choke off the city's public ROW.
Yoinked this picture of the Cervetes Center from the Missouri Historical Society. I also noticed a decently-sized building next to the CC. This building is now where the Holiday Inn is, no? Anyone know what used to be there? Kinda wish we still had it, reminds me of 801 Skinker
MarkGroth2020 wrote:I'm sure it was covered previously in this thread, but this seems like a waste of money. We continue to dump money into visitor experiences...luring in people who visit for a matter of days. Imagine this kind of money invested in our neighborhoods for people who live here every day. I get tourism is important; but I'd argue people/buildings that house residents DT is a better investment. I understand this dome was a horrible deal and we're trying to bail it out...
Out of town money being injected into our economy has a huge impact. This is money we wouldn’t normally see cycling through our economy and having a positive impact on downtown.
This is probably the best spot for this news at the moment:
"City eyes mixed-use development near convention center"
Mixed use at N. 10th Street and Lucas Avenue. The development has to have atleast 1,168 parking spots.
"The idea is that it would be something supportive of the expanded convention center and the growing north of Washington Avenue district that's a result of Square moving in" to the old St. Louis Post-Dispatch building, Williams said. "We've gotten a lot of interest."
The city of St. Louis is seeking bids for a mixed-use development at N. 10th Street and Lucas Avenue downtown, to be situated across from a revitalized convention center.
City documents say a developer is expected to purchase the land, now a 55,000-square-foot parking lot, from the Land Clearance for Redevelopment Authority for at least $3 million. A lease would also be considered. The documents call for the development to have at least 1,168 parking spaces.
That's because a $175 million expansion of the America's Center convention facility would eliminate a garage at N. Ninth and Cole streets, plus another surface lot at N. Ninth and Lucas, targeted for a new outdoor plaza.
St. Louis Development Corp. Executive Director Otis Williams said the project could include office, retail or residential elements. Bids are due June 17. The LCRA bought that and other properties as part of moves meant to make the America's Center project possible.
"The idea is that it would be something supportive of the expanded convention center and the growing north of Washington Avenue district that's a result of Square moving in" to the old St. Louis Post-Dispatch building, Williams said. "We've gotten a lot of interest."
The documents say a hotel would also be considered. "The mixed-use concept must activate the ground floor and cater to the pedestrian realm surrounding the environment," they say. "All four facades must be aesthetically pleasing. Special attention should be given to the east facade that will be across the street from the new America's Center entrance and outdoor plaza."
Other ideas suggested include widening the sidewalk "to allow for patio restaurant/coffee shop seating as well as pedestrian traffic," plus an "artistic" facade.
The city also wants the project to "address and accommodate" a possible north-south MetroLink route, which could have stops at Washington and 10th or Washington and Ninth.
In addition, the city desires a development whose parking areas could be converted into leasable space in the future "should the demand for parking no longer be sustainable due to technological and other causes."
The America's Center expansion, which would include expanding the building westward plus adding a larger ballroom and 26 loading docks, has been held up as uncertainty over the Covid-19 pandemic takes hold. The city, through its Municipal Finance Corp., earlier this month declined to issue $105 million in bonds for the project, citing budget uncertainty.
The entity could take up the question again in June, according to a person familiar with the matter.
A spokesman for Comptroller Darlene Green, whose office directs the Municipal Finance Corp., would say only that it next meets the last week of May.
Explore St. Louis, which runs America's Center, has said project construction could take two years.
Wow, this is great news for urban lovers! Must be a good looking building all around, mixed-use, and must take into account the possible N-S metrolink? This seems too good to be true! I'm hoping this building is at least 15-20 floors of office/retail/residence to make an impact on our skyline, but I guess we'll have to wait and see...
so this would be on the parking lot west of 10th, correct? and the parking lot east of 10th will become the new entrance plaza for the convention center?
they're also going to have to get rid of those slivers of surface parking behind the 1000 block of Wash. Ave. and along side the Lammert Bldg if they want to make that intersection pedestrian friendly. it really sucks that that the east and north sides of the 900 block of Wash Ave--which will be adjacent to the new convention center plaza--are nothing but blank walls and garage doors at street level.
I think it’s a redicolus proposal. The convention center brings in outside money that would normally not be circulating. It also creates jobs in the hospitality industry, many of which are entry level jobs that build skill sets. It also creates small businesses (restaurants bars, etc).
Spend money on the neighborhoods, not the tourist and visiting/fleeting business trips. I'd rather see money spent on us rather than visitors. Both are important sure, but our problems are us not visitors.
I think that his logic is flawed - if there was demand to redevelop "these blocks, plus Baer Plaza & The Bottle District" then we'd already see other empty lots (or Baer Plaza & The Bottle District themselves!) with plans in place. You can't just say, let's tear down a convention center to reopen a few streets, and then demand will follow.
St. Louis doesn't have an issue with not having land to be developed, especially near downtown. The last thing we need is to create more empty space while purposefully creating less reasons for tourists, companies, and industries from visiting the region.
The conventions also bring in visitors that help support many of the restaurant options that are downtown. I have many friends that work in the restaurants and am told how much it helps business. I fear without them, the selection would greatly reduce.
And to the point that conventions may decrease in the future, while there may be a year or two decrease due to coronavirus concerns I fully expect it to return to pre-pandemic levels. Especially once a vaccine is available. There's just so much money in marketing for major trade shows, organizations that want to hold special events, and industries sponsoring conventions for it all to just disappear.
I think that his logic is flawed - if there was demand to redevelop "these blocks, plus Baer Plaza & The Bottle District" then we'd already see other empty lots (or Baer Plaza & The Bottle District themselves!) with plans in place. You can't just say, let's tear down a convention center to reopen a few streets, and then demand will follow.
St. Louis doesn't have an issue with not having land to be developed, especially near downtown. The last thing we need is to create more empty space while purposefully creating less reasons for tourists, companies, and industries from visiting the region.
^All good points.
To Steve's points, I agree that further expansion and closure of streets may not be worthwhile and may be a solution looking for a problem. Basically, we should be wary of entering - or staying in - the convention center arms race. Competing at the highest level for conventions - with New Orleans, Las Vegas or Chicago - probably doesn't make sense. But abandoning the industry entirely doesn't seem right either.
Exactly. I think the current expansion plans make sense for St. Louis. We're not trying to create a new McCormick Place here, but what facilities we do have really could use updating. No, St. Louis can't compete with Las Vegas or Chicago, but we should try to compete against other smaller midwestern cities like Kansas City, Indianapolis, Nashville, etc.
