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^^^ Good. This will probably help put the concerns to rest over the amount of time the public would get to see the plans. Plus, we will have 10 days to get excited about the plans before the vote.
Also, what is the deal with the housing in that article? I understood it that the city wants less multi-unit housing and more single family housing (assuming the PD made an error and the project is at 67%)? Is that right? Why would the city want more sprawl and less efficient use of land? I can understand if Cooper was proposing duplexes are something silly like that, but what is wrong with apartments or townhomes? It brings in more tax revenue per acre of land, you would think a city would like that. Odd.
Also, what is the deal with the housing in that article? I understood it that the city wants less multi-unit housing and more single family housing (assuming the PD made an error and the project is at 67%)? Is that right? Why would the city want more sprawl and less efficient use of land? I can understand if Cooper was proposing duplexes are something silly like that, but what is wrong with apartments or townhomes? It brings in more tax revenue per acre of land, you would think a city would like that. Odd.
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^ Odd, but not uncommon. Just as Belleville limited the number of apartments in their TOD, many communities view apartments and duplexes (which I love) as lower-income, higher crime, lower property values, etc.
That's an annoying stigma I have about the Metro East. They don't understand that rental units, or multi-unit housing can bring good people, if done right.
The metro east doesn't have attractive multi-unit apartments, not many that is. Many of them are of the most god-awful architecture, horrible planning, and cheap materials, that yes, they attract bad tenants, and create crime. They don't have set in their minds, that with attractive architecture, and good planning, they can keep land value up, and create an urban community that is attractive, and safe.
I think the Metro East has a very "1980's" view on apartments.
I mean, around the country people are building apartments again (including STL), which house some of their higher income residence. It's funny how dated they are here.
The metro east doesn't have attractive multi-unit apartments, not many that is. Many of them are of the most god-awful architecture, horrible planning, and cheap materials, that yes, they attract bad tenants, and create crime. They don't have set in their minds, that with attractive architecture, and good planning, they can keep land value up, and create an urban community that is attractive, and safe.
I think the Metro East has a very "1980's" view on apartments.
I mean, around the country people are building apartments again (including STL), which house some of their higher income residence. It's funny how dated they are here.
People in Collinsville have grumbled about the number of rental units in the town for years, and yet the keep popping up everywhere.
I heard somewhere that 40% of Collinsville's housing is rental. That's probably exagerrated, I can't remember the exact number. For a city this is good, but for a town of 25,000 its a different issue. Plus I agree with Xing, Collinsville has two housing projects and a number of other trouble apartment complexes, so I can see where there would be a shift away from rental units.
I heard somewhere that 40% of Collinsville's housing is rental. That's probably exagerrated, I can't remember the exact number. For a city this is good, but for a town of 25,000 its a different issue. Plus I agree with Xing, Collinsville has two housing projects and a number of other trouble apartment complexes, so I can see where there would be a shift away from rental units.
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It appears the stadium is getting closer to approval. Although I always enjoy seeing rosy government figures.
Collinsville predicts gain from stadium investment
By Tom Timmermann
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
09/01/2007
COLLINSVILLE — Revenue from the city's portion of the proposed soccer stadium project would almost double its investment, according to "positive" financial estimates released by officials Friday.
The stadium and mixed-use development would, according to estimates, cost the city $3 million a year over the next 25 years. But officials are confident the project will generate $5.7 million a year, or $2.7 million over their investment.
"The numbers have been a long time coming and they've been changing regularly as the project develops,'' said City Manager Bob Knabel. "While the number of $2.7 million is very positive, in the end we felt the city will see more benefit than (that). It's a great deal for the city."
Officials released the estimates to give the public 10 days to study the figures before the City Council votes Sept. 10.
Link to Article
Collinsville predicts gain from stadium investment
By Tom Timmermann
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
09/01/2007
COLLINSVILLE — Revenue from the city's portion of the proposed soccer stadium project would almost double its investment, according to "positive" financial estimates released by officials Friday.
The stadium and mixed-use development would, according to estimates, cost the city $3 million a year over the next 25 years. But officials are confident the project will generate $5.7 million a year, or $2.7 million over their investment.
"The numbers have been a long time coming and they've been changing regularly as the project develops,'' said City Manager Bob Knabel. "While the number of $2.7 million is very positive, in the end we felt the city will see more benefit than (that). It's a great deal for the city."
Officials released the estimates to give the public 10 days to study the figures before the City Council votes Sept. 10.
Link to Article
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Well, the vote is Monday night. All signs still point to a positive outcome, although progress is being made in Philadelphia, so getting a team sooner rather than later is probably a good idea.
Here is the URL of the Release on the Specifics: http://216.8.64.82/portals/0/Press%20Re ... elease.pdf
Someone smarter than me can figure out all these numbers. It is only a 4 page release, but here are some of the things that stood out to me:
There will be a $5 parking fee.
$856,000 sales tax generated per year from the "Main Street" development. ]
Estimates 2,500 ongoing jobs (7,600 one time jobs)
10 year economic impact 2.9 billion.
1,000,000 visitors per year to site.
3,680 residents in 1,600 residential units.
2 - 120 unit hotels with 1,300 overnight stays per year.
300,000 sq. feet of retail
200,000 sq. feet of office
Here is the URL of Cooper's latest blog post. Nothing new in it, other than his continuing positive aura regarding all this.
http://www.stlouissoccerunited.com/content/view/69/73/
So far, so good. I don't like the pressure from Philly though.
Here is the URL of the Release on the Specifics: http://216.8.64.82/portals/0/Press%20Re ... elease.pdf
Someone smarter than me can figure out all these numbers. It is only a 4 page release, but here are some of the things that stood out to me:
There will be a $5 parking fee.
$856,000 sales tax generated per year from the "Main Street" development. ]
Estimates 2,500 ongoing jobs (7,600 one time jobs)
10 year economic impact 2.9 billion.
1,000,000 visitors per year to site.
3,680 residents in 1,600 residential units.
2 - 120 unit hotels with 1,300 overnight stays per year.
300,000 sq. feet of retail
200,000 sq. feet of office
Here is the URL of Cooper's latest blog post. Nothing new in it, other than his continuing positive aura regarding all this.
http://www.stlouissoccerunited.com/content/view/69/73/
So far, so good. I don't like the pressure from Philly though.
- 11K
2 - 120 unit hotels with 1,300 overnight stays per year.
I have to assume this is wrong. 240 rooms and 1,300 overnight stays per year? That's not a very good occupancy rate!
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Grover wrote:2 - 120 unit hotels with 1,300 overnight stays per year.
I have to assume this is wrong. 240 rooms and 1,300 overnight stays per year? That's not a very good occupancy rate!
Good call Grover. My fault.
240 Rooms, 130,000 overnight stays.
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Little Egyptian wrote:Well, the vote is Monday night. All signs still point to a positive outcome, although progress is being made in Philadelphia, so getting a team sooner rather than later is probably a good idea.
Here is the URL of the Release on the Specifics: http://216.8.64.82/portals/0/Press%20Re ... elease.pdf
Someone smarter than me can figure out all these numbers. It is only a 4 page release, but here are some of the things that stood out to me:
There will be a $5 parking fee.
$856,000 sales tax generated per year from the "Main Street" development. ]
Estimates 2,500 ongoing jobs (7,600 one time jobs)
10 year economic impact 2.9 billion.
1,000,000 visitors per year to site.
3,680 residents in 1,600 residential units.
2 - 120 unit hotels with 1,300 overnight stays per year.
300,000 sq. feet of retail
200,000 sq. feet of office
Here is the URL of Cooper's latest blog post. Nothing new in it, other than his continuing positive aura regarding all this.
http://www.stlouissoccerunited.com/content/view/69/73/
So far, so good. I don't like the pressure from Philly though.
It all sounds great to me- now we've just gotta keep those fingers crossed.
Little Egyptian wrote:Grover wrote:2 - 120 unit hotels with 1,300 overnight stays per year.
I have to assume this is wrong. 240 rooms and 1,300 overnight stays per year? That's not a very good occupancy rate!
Good call Grover. My fault.
240 Rooms, 130,000 overnight stays.
240 rooms * 365 nights a year = 87,600 (room*nights)/year.... when they calculate "130,000" should I assume they calculate 2+ people per room per night and the 130k is actual 130,000 people/year? In this case it would be about a 75% occupancy rate... I assume this pretty decent for a brand new destination hotel considering national average for all rooms is 64.5%.
Passed!
Sign up to buy your scarf (footy fans know what I mean)
Sign up to buy your scarf (footy fans know what I mean)
Now the biggest hurdle is getting MLS to grant us a team [-o<
If you want to read up on tonight's vote:
If you want to read up on tonight's vote:
Collinsville City Council Authorizes Pre-Annexation for MLS Soccer Stadium, Development
Approval of St. Louis Soccer United Proposal Critical Step in Landing Major League Soccer Expansion Team in 2009
COLLINSVILLE, Ill., Sept. 10, 2007 – The Collinsville City Council tonight approved a pre?annexation agreement submitted by St. Louis Soccer United that will serve as the catalyst to help fund an 18,500-seat soccer stadium and mixed-use development designed to attract a Major League Soccer expansion franchise for the St. Louis area.
The City Council, which is comprised of Mayor Stan Schaeffer and four council members, approved the measure tonight by a 4-1 vote.
continue reading
Collinsville forges ahead on stadium
COLLINSVILLE — City leaders voted Monday to negotiate with a Metro East lawyer to bring the city a multimillion-dollar professional soccer stadium along with a housing and retail development.
Council members voted 4-1 to negotiate an annex agreement for farmland at Horseshoe Lake Road and Interstate 255. City staff members believe that money to be made on the project will almost double the city's investment.
The city's cost would be $3 million a year over the next 25 years, according to its estimates. Officials believe the project will generate $5.7 million a year, or $2.7 million annually over the investment.
City Manager Bob Knabel said the city would sell bonds totaling about $30 million to $35 million to pay for the project, though the exact amount won't be final until the deal is complete. It's uncertain when that will be, but both sides have said they expect a firmer deal by year's end.
continue reading
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Well there's a link on the MLS website to the P-D story concerning the Collinsville project so my guess is they are watching it. Let's hope we don't land the next washed up star *Becks*
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AWESOME!!! :hyper:
Good work Collinsville (although there was 1 vote against it!). =D>
I think the MLS team should be coming in the next week or two. Cooper has stated all along that MLS was watching and told Cooper what they wanted before they granted a team. Now Cooper has achieved that. At this point, it looks like MLS would have to go back on its word not to give StL a team. [-o<
Plus, Cooper is not going to do anything at this point until MLS gives us a yes or no. Because we are on a deadline to start in 2009, MLS needs to approve soon so that much of the ground work and preparation for construction can be done yet this year. Then construction on the SSS can start immediately in the Spring, that would give them 1 year to construct the stadium, which is very possible. However, if they wait a few months to give us a team, construction likely will not begin until next summer. That would leave only like a 9 month window to build the stadium, which might not be enough. I think both Cooper and MLS know that if they want to start in 09, MLS needs to award a team within the next couple of weeks.
This is a great day for Collinsville, for the East Side, and for the Saint Louis Region. Bravo to everyone involved.
Good work Collinsville (although there was 1 vote against it!). =D>
I think the MLS team should be coming in the next week or two. Cooper has stated all along that MLS was watching and told Cooper what they wanted before they granted a team. Now Cooper has achieved that. At this point, it looks like MLS would have to go back on its word not to give StL a team. [-o<
Plus, Cooper is not going to do anything at this point until MLS gives us a yes or no. Because we are on a deadline to start in 2009, MLS needs to approve soon so that much of the ground work and preparation for construction can be done yet this year. Then construction on the SSS can start immediately in the Spring, that would give them 1 year to construct the stadium, which is very possible. However, if they wait a few months to give us a team, construction likely will not begin until next summer. That would leave only like a 9 month window to build the stadium, which might not be enough. I think both Cooper and MLS know that if they want to start in 09, MLS needs to award a team within the next couple of weeks.
This is a great day for Collinsville, for the East Side, and for the Saint Louis Region. Bravo to everyone involved.
- 11K
^ My favorite part on the news last night was the construction worker who said something like, "Yeeeah - we're ready ta build anythin!" It is very good that he and other blue collar workers will have another job to work on, but it reminded me of the enormous construction lobby in this country. We're almost held hostage to building more and more or else there are layoffs and lost jobs. This is always the argument made for more roads - look at all the jobs it will create! After one is built another must be built to maintain the jobs . . . but I digress . . .
Looking forward to an MLS game on the eastside! Can't wait to take Metrolink there some day!
Looking forward to an MLS game on the eastside! Can't wait to take Metrolink there some day!
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^ I was actually thinking the same thing. Here is the link to the Channel 2 story on it and the construction dude. No doubt Korte will be involved in this.
http://www.myfoxstl.com/myfox/pages/Hom ... geId=1.1.1
Actually, I have to say, that those guys and gals chanting in the background of that video really got me fired up about this. There is no other sport like Soccer. They have to tell the Rams fans when to cheer, but these guys bring their own drums and already have chants for the team. That is so cool. Even though there is not a lot of scoring in soccer, I think the fan experience is much better than football. With a nice SSS, a beer before and after the game, a clear blue sky, KC as the opponent, ... what an awesome way to spend a day.
I really think this thing is just going to explode in Saint Louis. I think that within 10 years of getting a team, Jeff Cooper will be dusting off those blueprints about expanding the seating capacity of the stadium.
http://www.myfoxstl.com/myfox/pages/Hom ... geId=1.1.1
Actually, I have to say, that those guys and gals chanting in the background of that video really got me fired up about this. There is no other sport like Soccer. They have to tell the Rams fans when to cheer, but these guys bring their own drums and already have chants for the team. That is so cool. Even though there is not a lot of scoring in soccer, I think the fan experience is much better than football. With a nice SSS, a beer before and after the game, a clear blue sky, KC as the opponent, ... what an awesome way to spend a day.
I really think this thing is just going to explode in Saint Louis. I think that within 10 years of getting a team, Jeff Cooper will be dusting off those blueprints about expanding the seating capacity of the stadium.
Construction Workers will hopefully be busy for years to come. Driving around the area, things are changing incredibly fast. The Metro East is clearly booming.
Having this up, as I drive by Collinsville, will be mind boggling. If any of you have ever driven back to St. Louis, from Chicago (I-55), there's a point on the bluff, when the St Louis skyline finally hits. After this is built, you'll have the stadium pop right out of nowhere, just as the freeway hits the edge of the bluff. The skyline should be right behind it.
Having this up, as I drive by Collinsville, will be mind boggling. If any of you have ever driven back to St. Louis, from Chicago (I-55), there's a point on the bluff, when the St Louis skyline finally hits. After this is built, you'll have the stadium pop right out of nowhere, just as the freeway hits the edge of the bluff. The skyline should be right behind it.
- 11K
I hope in some "development helps preserve" way that Cahokia Mounds will benefit from this - maybe more visitors, more emphasis on preserving the mounds given threatening development nearby . . .
I thought that this was pretty much a done deal - and maybe it is, but there's been no announcement and now we hear that Seattle is a go for 2009 . . .
MLS to expand to Seattle
League's 15th franchise will begin play in '09 season
By Jonah Freedman, SI.com
SAN FRANCISCO (SI.com) -- Major League Soccer has settled on Seattle as its next expansion city, SI.com has learned. According to a league source, the new franchise will begin play for the 2009 season.
An official announcement will be made in the next two weeks, the source said. Seattle is already home to the Sounders of the United Soccer Leagues First Division (one rung below MLS).
According to an earlier report by the Herald News of New Jersey's Ives Galarcep, the Sounders ownership group will have a big hand in the new MLS club, and the expansion team will also be called the Sounders.
It wasn't immediately clear if that meant the Seattle Sounders would essentially be promoted to MLS, ending the club's minor-league status.
MLS' goal is to expand to 16 franchises by the 2010 season. The league currently has 13 teams and announced in July that it would add San Jose, Calif., as its 14th franchise for '08.
Seattle had been at the forefront of as many as eight candidate cities for further expansion. Portland, Ore., was also a consideration for a new club in the Pacific Northwest.
The Sounders would bring the number of teams in the MLS Western Conference to eight. If the league wants to balance its schedule, it must now add an Eastern Conference team. St. Louis and Philadelphia are said to be the frontrunners.
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Tom Timmermann of the post mentioned in his blog today or yesterday that Phili is WAY behind on the stadium. That they didn't even have an architect or something for it. I saw Manchester United play at their Wachovia Center a few years ago so I guess that could be a temporary solution, but I didn't think that MLS would even consider a city without concrete stadium plans.
From what I've read, St. Louis was set as the next expansion before they decided on Seattle -though neither has been made official and the Seattle one apparently has caught more ears. They're waiting for that time in the next two weeks when Seattle, along with St. Louis, will be announced as the next expansion teams.
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Yeah, it seems that neither is official to me, but certainly places like CNNSI running stories on it gives it more validity.
Seattle has no soccer-specific stadium in place and doesn't intend to. They intend to play at Qwest Field (where the Seahawks play), which will be 2/3 empty for every match. It is certainly a step backward for the MLS and makes me consider their long-term health a little more. I am sure MLS could have forced Seattle to build an Soccer Specific Stadium if they wanted to, but it looks like MLS caved. I don't really understand why, but I assume it has something to do with Paul Allen and a ton of $$$$$$$.
I am still not concerned about the expansion team. I think in a couple of weeks the announcement will come that Seattle and Saint Louis will both join in 2009. I don't like having to compete with Philly, but they are much further behind and the soonest they could join is 2010. My guess is that Philly and another team will join the league around 2011-2012.
I think everything still looks great to begin play in 2009 at the new stadium in Collinsville. However, I certainly could have done without this news.
Seattle has no soccer-specific stadium in place and doesn't intend to. They intend to play at Qwest Field (where the Seahawks play), which will be 2/3 empty for every match. It is certainly a step backward for the MLS and makes me consider their long-term health a little more. I am sure MLS could have forced Seattle to build an Soccer Specific Stadium if they wanted to, but it looks like MLS caved. I don't really understand why, but I assume it has something to do with Paul Allen and a ton of $$$$$$$.
I am still not concerned about the expansion team. I think in a couple of weeks the announcement will come that Seattle and Saint Louis will both join in 2009. I don't like having to compete with Philly, but they are much further behind and the soonest they could join is 2010. My guess is that Philly and another team will join the league around 2011-2012.
I think everything still looks great to begin play in 2009 at the new stadium in Collinsville. However, I certainly could have done without this news.
Definitely not official:
Not sure if the original story spread because of hope or a decision that wasn't supposed to be spoken of yet, but I'm glad to hear MLS denying it. Don't get me wrong, Seattle's fine with me (not to mention any others as secondary to a team for us), I just want as many open slots as possible until St. Louis is confirmed.
Source"I spoke with (MLS President) Mark Abbott yesterday in Kansas City and asked him if we have a deal in Seattle and he said 'no,'" said league spokesman Dan Courtemanche. "Our goal is to announce the fifteenth and sixteenth teams by the end of 2007 or in the first quarter of 2008."
Not sure if the original story spread because of hope or a decision that wasn't supposed to be spoken of yet, but I'm glad to hear MLS denying it. Don't get me wrong, Seattle's fine with me (not to mention any others as secondary to a team for us), I just want as many open slots as possible until St. Louis is confirmed.