urbanSTL

Have to assume losing the convention, hotel and game day business did them no favors. New rent was probably astronomical. Tons of competition at that intersection. Food and service that has been surpassed by many other local fine dining options including Casa Don Alfonso down the block and the restaurants at Wydown/Hanley. Tony’s was the third or fourth (arguably 5th) best Italian restaurant in Clayton. Personally, I prefer Louies, Casa Don Alfonso, Pastaria, and Dominic’s, and that’s just Clayton.

I think they would still be open if they were at UMB. Same for Kemoll’s at Met Square.

The vibe at Napoli is disgusting. I lose my appetite just looking at the place. I need to try Peno again. My meal was crazy salty my one time there

I worked the valet at Napoli for a short time in my youth. Some of the worst people.

I bet you have some stories

God, I can't imagine catering to those types. Hopefully good tips, though. 

Flight Club St Louis

^ I was told by RAFCO leasing that the new dart bar concept is going to open by the end of this month. 

I wouldn't necessarily call this inside info, but Tony's failed for a few good reasons and none of them really have to do with moving from DT STL to DT Clayton

1) Michael Neidorff cut them a sweetheart lease deal to help lure them from DT STL.  The original lease with its favorable terms are up. Neidorff is dead.
2) James Bommarito (the current owner) isn't Tony Bommarito (original proprietor and local celeb really).  Running a restaurant is exceedingly difficult. Tony excelled. James has struggled. 
3) They are rumored to owe millions and millions in back taxes
4) High-end dining like Tony's just isn't' as popular as it was.

soulardx wrote: ↑

Jan 14, 2025

I wouldn't necessarily call this inside info, but Tony's failed for a few good reasons and none of them really have to do with moving from DT STL to DT Clayton

1) Michael Neidorff cut them a sweetheart lease deal to help lure them from DT STL.  The original lease with its favorable terms are up. Neidorff is dead.

This has quite a lot to do with moving from DT.

Why can’t they pay their taxes? Preferring to pay whoever financed the T/Is for their new space in Clayton?

I think they owed taxes even before their move from DT.

From what I’ve heard, I don’t think they would’ve made it either way, based on some of the reasons listed above.

It was obvious to me Clayton was never going to be the answer, but less clear on which location would’ve been better attracting more customers.

DT is advantageous for attracting more out of town and event based customers, but Clayton seems better for attracting local and non event based dining (for Tony’s specifically).

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 13, 2025

flipz wrote: ↑

Jan 13, 2025

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 11, 2025

It's because they moved to a dead area relative to where their original location was.

Or maybe they weren't drawing people no matter where they are. People get tired of the same restaurants and stop going. 

Tony's isn't a restaurant that you go to enough to get tired. Pretty sure they relied on business people dining and rich people dining. Asked my mom about it ans she only ate there once 20+ years ago for a convention dinner.

Still has nothing to do with foot traffic and it being in a dead area then. I think business was hurting and someone had the idea to move to revive business and it didn't work out.

I know nothing about the place but assume that their clientele aged with them and they didn't do enough to draw new generations. 

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Jan 14, 2025

soulardx wrote: ↑

Jan 14, 2025

I wouldn't necessarily call this inside info, but Tony's failed for a few good reasons and none of them really have to do with moving from DT STL to DT Clayton

1) Michael Neidorff cut them a sweetheart lease deal to help lure them from DT STL.  The original lease with its favorable terms are up. Neidorff is dead.

This has quite a lot to do with moving from DT.

I simply mean that had they stayed in DT STL, #2, #3 and #4 would remain true and they'd still be closing this year if not sooner.  #1 just offered them a chance at a newish start and it didn't work.

flipz wrote: ↑

Jan 14, 2025

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 13, 2025

flipz wrote: ↑

Jan 13, 2025

Or maybe they weren't drawing people no matter where they are. People get tired of the same restaurants and stop going. 

Tony's isn't a restaurant that you go to enough to get tired. Pretty sure they relied on business people dining and rich people dining. Asked my mom about it ans she only ate there once 20+ years ago for a convention dinner.

Still has nothing to do with foot traffic and it being in a dead area then. I think business was hurting and someone had the idea to move to revive business and it didn't work out.

I know nothing about the place but assume that their clientele aged with them and they didn't do enough to draw new generations. 

Tony's isn't a foot traffic restaurant.  It is a destination restaurant.  I work in Clayton and our fancy dinners are almost always at 801 or Capital Grille. I don't think I've had any suggest Tony's once since it moved to Clayton. I did my father-in-law's dinner there (destination /event meal) and had lunch there about twice (not nearly as enjoyable as Anthony's was DT).  When I worked downtown, I worked in the same building as Tony's and we at Anthony's for lunch at least once a month, if not more in the winters when we didn't want to go outside. I ate at the Tony's there like 2 or 3 times over a 15 year span. 

some anecdotes for 'ya

In Clayton you’re relying on suits to fill the seats. There are no events, no conventions, no hotels (comparatively). Centene bailed and with it most of the suits.

And BTW, there are still more suits DT than there are in Clayton.

What is a sweetheart deal in the most expensive real estate in the metro? I’d be shocked if it was lower than what they were paying at UMB per foot.

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:In Clayton you’re relying on suits to fill the seats. There are no events, no conventions, no hotels (comparatively). Centene bailed and with it most of the suits.

And BTW, there are still more suits DT than there are in Clayton.

Agreed. But I think in Clayton you’re also relying on wealthy county residents who are less likely to venture DT.

Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑

Jan 14, 2025

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:In Clayton you’re relying on suits to fill the seats. There are no events, no conventions, no hotels (comparatively). Centene bailed and with it most of the suits.

And BTW, there are still more suits DT than there are in Clayton.

Agreed. But I think in Clayton you’re also relying on wealthy county residents who are less likely to venture DT.

And this, I suspect, is wherein lies the folly.

The owners hear at the club and VP ball how “Oh, we’d love to get down more often but it’s so far, the parking situation is terrible, and DT is so dangerous these days.” And then the owners fall into the trap of thinking that they’d have all these regulars if they were just closer. But places like Tony’s have very few true regulars outside of the people who work in the building.

I’ve already acknowlefed the massive competition Tony’s faced at that corner. And the 801s have better brand recognition for out-of-towners and are much better at accommodating large/huge groups which business dinners often have.

soulardx wrote: ↑

Jan 14, 2025

I wouldn't necessarily call this inside info, but Tony's failed for a few good reasons and none of them really have to do with moving from DT STL to DT Clayton

1) Michael Neidorff cut them a sweetheart lease deal to help lure them from DT STL.  The original lease with its favorable terms are up. Neidorff is dead.
2) James Bommarito (the current owner) isn't Tony Bommarito (original proprietor and local celeb really).  Running a restaurant is exceedingly difficult. Tony excelled. James has struggled. 
3) They are rumored to owe millions and millions in back taxes
4) High-end dining like Tony's just isn't' as popular as it was.

Your #1 reason inherently is about moving to Clayton.

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 14, 2025

soulardx wrote: ↑

Jan 14, 2025

I wouldn't necessarily call this inside info, but Tony's failed for a few good reasons and none of them really have to do with moving from DT STL to DT Clayton

1) Michael Neidorff cut them a sweetheart lease deal to help lure them from DT STL.  The original lease with its favorable terms are up. Neidorff is dead.
2) James Bommarito (the current owner) isn't Tony Bommarito (original proprietor and local celeb really).  Running a restaurant is exceedingly difficult. Tony excelled. James has struggled. 
3) They are rumored to owe millions and millions in back taxes
4) High-end dining like Tony's just isn't' as popular as it was.

Your #1 reason inherently is about moving to Clayton.

the move, yes. the failure, not really. 

May I ask where you had “misses”?