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I didn’t say they don’t have exclusivity, I’m just curious how they got it here
Correct, while I’m not privy to the lease, it’s my understanding that the Starbucks lease (along with their coffee exclusive) didn’t expire and they’re technically reopening. So that’s why the exclusive would be applicable to tenants within the same property (assuming their leases started after Starbucks). Sometimes, exclusives are not enforceable if the tenant (Starbucks in this case) is not open for business which explains why they were able to do coffee/brunch for a while. Once they reopen, the exclusive goes back in force.SRQ2STL wrote: ↑Jun 19, 2024Well...the thing is..it's not a new business. It's a re-opening business...and that term pre-existed in its former iteration as well. Basically, it's a restrictive covenant Starbucks outlines in their lease terms, for deciding to open their doors. That wards off "competition" that could infringe on their business. But it's so far reaching, even the restaurants in the same block can't literally serve coffee....it's corporate BS, up there with the sort of tactics entities like Wal-Mart try to employ. They can claim they're anchor tenant and because of their sway in the area, they deserve the exclusive right to provision that certain product.jshank83 wrote: ↑Jun 19, 2024How do you get an exclusivity clause to be the only one to sell coffee when you are the new business coming in?SRQ2STL wrote: ↑Jun 18, 2024Two things happening near Wydown/Hanley:
-Matt McGuire of Louie and Wright's Tavern is opening a new grab and go market at 7628 Wydown. "Box Hill Grocer" with prepared hot and cold items designed for quick pick-up. It's slated to open in late September, with likely hours of operation from 9 a.m.–7 p.m. Monday through Saturday.
-Starbucks is reopening sometime this summer, unannounced date. My contact in one of the restaurants next door to that corner told me they're stopping brunch service on Sundays, partially because Starbucks has an exclusivity clause in place, where only they will be able to sell coffee in that block.
They do it in other places all the time too. It's not new.
I don’t agree with your comment about exclusives though. It’s not corporate BS - granted it’s used by corporations often. We use exclusives all the time to protect local and regional tenants as well. It doesn’t help anyone to put competitors in the same property. Kill your existing tenant, you’ll have another space to lease.
If a lease is well negotiated, often you can get language that allows other tenants in the property to sell 15-20 percent of gross sales for that particular food/drink category. In this case: coffee or breakfast, which would have allowed others to keep brunch and sell some coffee….but not a coffee/breakfast restaurant.
Correct. You can only encumber your own property unless there’s a reciprocal easement agreement (or similar legal doc) that restricts uses across multiple properties that’s signed by all the parties involved. Doubtful that’s the case here. I think the building that includes Starbucks is the only place their exclusive applies.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jun 19, 2024A property owner can’t unilaterally implement a restrictive covenant. How did the owner of the Starbuck’s parcel get the other owners on board? Does one person or group own all of those buildings?SRQ2STL wrote: ↑Jun 19, 2024Well...the thing is..it's not a new business. It's a re-opening business...and that term pre-existed in its former iteration as well. Basically, it's a restrictive covenant Starbucks outlines in their lease terms, for deciding to open their doors. That wards off "competition" that could infringe on their business. But it's so far reaching, even the restaurants in the same block can't literally serve coffee....it's corporate BS, up there with the sort of tactics entities like Wal-Mart try to employ. They can claim they're anchor tenant and because of their sway in the area, they deserve the exclusive right to provision that certain product.jshank83 wrote: ↑Jun 19, 2024
How do you get an exclusivity clause to be the only one to sell coffee when you are the new business coming in?
They do it in other places all the time too. It's not new.
Yes, that is correct. It's the building on the corner only, which contains everything from the dentist office, florist, and the two existing restaurants. Not the whole of the Wydown business district.kbshapiro wrote: ↑Jun 20, 2024Correct. You can only encumber your own property unless there’s a reciprocal easement agreement (or similar legal doc) that restricts uses across multiple properties that’s signed by all the parties involved. Doubtful that’s the case here. I think the building that includes Starbucks is the only place their exclusive applies.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jun 19, 2024A property owner can’t unilaterally implement a restrictive covenant. How did the owner of the Starbuck’s parcel get the other owners on board? Does one person or group own all of those buildings?SRQ2STL wrote: ↑Jun 19, 2024Well...the thing is..it's not a new business. It's a re-opening business...and that term pre-existed in its former iteration as well. Basically, it's a restrictive covenant Starbucks outlines in their lease terms, for deciding to open their doors. That wards off "competition" that could infringe on their business. But it's so far reaching, even the restaurants in the same block can't literally serve coffee....it's corporate BS, up there with the sort of tactics entities like Wal-Mart try to employ. They can claim they're anchor tenant and because of their sway in the area, they deserve the exclusive right to provision that certain product.
They do it in other places all the time too. It's not new.
Flight Club (elevated darts bar) going into the former cantina loredo space in Centene. Interesting to see the golf place and this both announced in the last week.
https://www.stlmag.com/dining/flight-cl ... 8564012083
https://www.stlmag.com/dining/flight-cl ... 8564012083
Only took 4 years for the move to the suburbs to kill it.
StlMag - Tony’s in Clayton to close February 15
https://www.stlmag.com/dining/tony%E2%8 ... bruary-15/
StlMag - Tony’s in Clayton to close February 15
https://www.stlmag.com/dining/tony%E2%8 ... bruary-15/
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closed due to lack of business? i loved their food and can vouch for superior taste.quincunx wrote: ↑Jan 10, 2025Only took 4 years for the move to the suburbs to kill it.
StlMag - Tony’s in Clayton to close February 15
https://www.stlmag.com/dining/tony%E2%8 ... bruary-15/
quincunx wrote: ↑Jan 10, 2025Only took 4 years for the move to the suburbs to kill it.
StlMag - Tony’s in Clayton to close February 15
https://www.stlmag.com/dining/tony%E2%8 ... bruary-15/
67+ years downtown but can't survive more then 3.5 in Clayton. It's a comedy.
It's because they moved to a dead area relative to where their original location was.stlurbanist wrote: ↑Jan 10, 2025closed due to lack of business? i loved their food and can vouch for superior taste.quincunx wrote: ↑Jan 10, 2025Only took 4 years for the move to the suburbs to kill it.
StlMag - Tony’s in Clayton to close February 15
https://www.stlmag.com/dining/tony%E2%8 ... bruary-15/
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Tony’s is closing on the 15th of February.This was easy to see coming. Kemoll’s and Tony’s both gone within ~18 months of each other and in each case shortly after leaving for the county.
I guess the grass wasn’t so green.
I guess the grass wasn’t so green.
Clayton sure isn’t being helped by how car brained in how it is set up. If one of these suburbs would have a walkable district that was connected to public transportation, it would work. Problem is none of those exist in the St. Louis metro.
It’s a regional issue. Before someone mentions New Town, or Streets of St. Charles, those aren’t really connected to good public transportation. Same with the Chesterfield rebuild.
It’s easy to blame the businesses in question but even downtown is super car brained compared to competing downtowns.
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It’s a regional issue. Before someone mentions New Town, or Streets of St. Charles, those aren’t really connected to good public transportation. Same with the Chesterfield rebuild.
It’s easy to blame the businesses in question but even downtown is super car brained compared to competing downtowns.
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If clayton prioritized TOD at the Forsyth station, Clayton would actually be set up really, really well.Fraydog wrote: ↑Jan 11, 2025Clayton sure isn’t being helped by how car brained in how it is set up. If one of these suburbs would have a walkable district that was connected to public transportation, it would work. Problem is none of those exist in the St. Louis metro.
It’s a regional issue. Before someone mentions New Town, or Streets of St. Charles, those aren’t really connected to good public transportation. Same with the Chesterfield rebuild.
It’s easy to blame the businesses in question but even downtown is super car brained compared to competing downtowns.
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^i was going to say. It’s got 2 pretty easily walkable stations downtown. I think it’s set up pretty well. But I agree developing the parcels by the Forsyth station would be a great addition.
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Yeah but then it wouldn’t be a park n’ ride which is what the County wants.
Ehh, they're both on the edge. The Clayton station would have been better at Central and Forsyth.jshank83 wrote: ↑Jan 11, 2025^i was going to say. It’s got 2 pretty easily walkable stations downtown. I think it’s set up pretty well. But I agree developing the parcels by the Forsyth station would be a great addition.
Downtown STL is one of the most transit friendly downtowns in the Midwest. We are right behind Minneapolis all things considered. Head and shoulders above the likes of KC, Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, etc.Fraydog wrote: ↑Jan 11, 2025Clayton sure isn’t being helped by how car brained in how it is set up. If one of these suburbs would have a walkable district that was connected to public transportation, it would work. Problem is none of those exist in the St. Louis metro.
It’s a regional issue. Before someone mentions New Town, or Streets of St. Charles, those aren’t really connected to good public transportation. Same with the Chesterfield rebuild.
It’s easy to blame the businesses in question but even downtown is super car brained compared to competing downtowns.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can't say I've spent a lot of time in those cities but why do you think so? Apart from the Metrolink stations, Downtown is full of parking garages and Metro doesn't run much bus service through actual Downtown, preferring for all the south city buses to stop at Civic Center far from the CBD.
Other city's downtowns are more or less ours but without any trains.PeterXCV wrote: ↑Jan 11, 2025Can't say I've spent a lot of time in those cities but why do you think so? Apart from the Metrolink stations, Downtown is full of parking garages and Metro doesn't run much bus service through actual Downtown, preferring for all the south city buses to stop at Civic Center far from the CBD.
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Yea, go to other Midwest cities - also full of parking garages. We’ve had our transgressions of tear downs for parking or plazas that make me sick (Century Building, Ambassador Theatre, Title Guaranty), horrible parking garages developments (Keiner, Stadium, Macys, several around Tucker) and a really bad divider of I-44/55. But so do all of these older downtowns.Auggie wrote: ↑Jan 12, 2025Other city's downtowns are more or less ours but without any trains.PeterXCV wrote: ↑Jan 11, 2025Can't say I've spent a lot of time in those cities but why do you think so? Apart from the Metrolink stations, Downtown is full of parking garages and Metro doesn't run much bus service through actual Downtown, preferring for all the south city buses to stop at Civic Center far from the CBD.
Downtown StL at least has light rail stations and a bus hub for many buses. Needs improvements and we’ve dropped the ball on not more easily expanding the system when it was cheaper.
KC, Cincy, Omaha, Columbus, Indy, Detroit, Milwaukee don’t have real light/heavy rail. Minneapolis has it better. Cleveland and Pittsburgh about the same.
So St. Louis is right there after Minn.
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Replacing a stadium or Kiener garage with a new DT bus depot would be cool
Not arguing that location wouldn’t be better, but it’s not like downtown Clayton is that big. If people want to use Metrolink I don’t see that distance as a huge deterrent.quincunx wrote: ↑Jan 11, 2025Ehh, they're both on the edge. The Clayton station would have been better at Central and Forsyth.jshank83 wrote: ↑Jan 11, 2025^i was going to say. It’s got 2 pretty easily walkable stations downtown. I think it’s set up pretty well. But I agree developing the parcels by the Forsyth station would be a great addition.
We need to aim to a global standard though. That’s the problem. Instead of coming up with answers to fix the problems, it invariably end up being the same excuses.Auggie wrote:Downtown STL is one of the most transit friendly downtowns in the Midwest. We are right behind Minneapolis all things considered. Head and shoulders above the likes of KC, Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, etc.Fraydog wrote: ↑Jan 11, 2025Clayton sure isn’t being helped by how car brained in how it is set up. If one of these suburbs would have a walkable district that was connected to public transportation, it would work. Problem is none of those exist in the St. Louis metro.
It’s a regional issue. Before someone mentions New Town, or Streets of St. Charles, those aren’t really connected to good public transportation. Same with the Chesterfield rebuild.
It’s easy to blame the businesses in question but even downtown is super car brained compared to competing downtowns.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Or maybe they weren't drawing people no matter where they are. People get tired of the same restaurants and stop going.Auggie wrote: ↑Jan 11, 2025It's because they moved to a dead area relative to where their original location was.stlurbanist wrote: ↑Jan 10, 2025closed due to lack of business? i loved their food and can vouch for superior taste.quincunx wrote: ↑Jan 10, 2025Only took 4 years for the move to the suburbs to kill it.
StlMag - Tony’s in Clayton to close February 15
https://www.stlmag.com/dining/tony%E2%8 ... bruary-15/
Tony's isn't a restaurant that you go to enough to get tired. Pretty sure they relied on business people dining and rich people dining. Asked my mom about it ans she only ate there once 20+ years ago for a convention dinner.