What the...I didn't notice the driveway in the renderings posted earlier. This is the same crap proposed across town at the Brown Shoe campus. Why do developers continue to do such stupid things? Why do architects continue to allow their buildings to be treated like automotive after-birth?
- 11K
I like the driveway and (what looks like) angled parking in this case. The setbacks on the other corners, adjacent lots (if they could be called that) are HUGE. Even the setbacks (whether you like it or not) further north on Hanley are very deep. The traffic on Clayton and Hanley is significant and there is no opportunity for street parking here.
Mill204 wrote:Could they not just put in an extra wide sidewalk with a buffer along Clayton Rd and put the access road in back? The Walgreens at Clayton and Big Bend, if not up to Big Bend, is at least adjacent to Clayton Rd.Grover wrote:^^ clearly parking/valet Moorlander. To be honest, I think it's an OK idea here. It's not going to be comfortable to park on Clayton Road and any outdoor dining immediately next to the road (if there weren't parking) wouldn't be very inviting.
Keep the drive on the east end of the property, at least, but I don't see a need for it to wrap all the way around the front of the development.
I think the Walgreen's at Big Bend/Clayton would be much, much better if there were one row of parking on the west and south sides and the rest hidden instead of having the building up against (but not oriented towards) Clayton and then completely removed from Big Bend. That situation leaves a much, much larger void in the street wall, commercial corner than what's proposed here.
Grover wrote:Mill204 wrote:Could they not just put in an extra wide sidewalk with a buffer along Clayton Rd and put the access road in back? The Walgreens at Clayton and Big Bend, if not up to Big Bend, is at least adjacent to Clayton Rd.Grover wrote:^^ clearly parking/valet Moorlander. To be honest, I think it's an OK idea here. It's not going to be comfortable to park on Clayton Road and any outdoor dining immediately next to the road (if there weren't parking) wouldn't be very inviting.
Keep the drive on the east end of the property, at least, but I don't see a need for it to wrap all the way around the front of the development.
I think the Walgreen's at Big Bend/Clayton would be much, much better if there were one row of parking on the west and south sides and the rest hidden instead of having the building up against (but not oriented towards) Clayton and then completely removed from Big Bend. That situation leaves a much, much larger void in the street wall, commercial corner than what's proposed here.
I think that was their orignal proposal. But the NIMBYs in the houses behind the store made the approval process tough and you ended up with the current layout.
A more creative idea would be pull through angled parking, with the spaces directly on Clayton with users approaching from the east able to pull right into a space and then pull out by using a driveway between the building and the parking spaces. It would still provide the development with highly visible parking, but would allow the sidewalk to be continuous adjacent to the building and would not require users to walk across the parking lot to access the building. Rather, the angled parking would just feel and an extension of the ROW space.
- 11K
I imagine that Hanley is still too congested for that. Inevitably you would have people backing out of their spot. Anyway, I don't see how the sidewalk from the north and also from the east can't be a continuation of what exists anyway. Actually what's there is terrible - a narrow sidewalk immediately next to Clayton and the same along Hanley. They should move the sidewalk away from the road six feet or more from Cromwell to this development. From this pic (middle one) it looks like the sidewalk would/could head straight for the storefronts, no need to cross parking. Of course anyone coming from across Hanley or Clayton would walk past parking either way.
![]()
map showing existing sidewalks:
http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v ... &encType=1
map showing existing sidewalks:
http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v ... &encType=1
- 8,912
Schnucks site
$120 million
Clayton and Hanley roads
Status: Finalizing financing
The long-dormant former Schnucks property on the prime corner of Clayton and Hanley roads has new signs of activity. Lipton Realty has owned the property for a quarter century and leased the 3.3.-acre site to Schnuck Markets Inc. until mid-2003, when the grocery store there closed.
Gateway Real Estate Partners, led by Ryan Woods of the Clayton office of commercial real estate firm Lee & Associates, has the property under contract for an undisclosed amount and is moving forward with development. A former partner with Woods, Cullinan Properties Ltd., a real estate development firm based in Peoria, Ill., is no longer associated with the deal.
Woods said he has tenant commitments for 60,000 square feet of space, including a fitness center. The project, if approved by city officials, will ultimately have 227,000 square feet of office and retail space and a 200-room hotel. “I’ve signed a deal with a hotel operator to buy the air rights,” Woods said. He declined to name the joint venture hotel partner or tenants until financing is in place. Woods said construction could start in June 2010 and be completed in 18 months.
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... ocus3.html
$120 million
Clayton and Hanley roads
Status: Finalizing financing
The long-dormant former Schnucks property on the prime corner of Clayton and Hanley roads has new signs of activity. Lipton Realty has owned the property for a quarter century and leased the 3.3.-acre site to Schnuck Markets Inc. until mid-2003, when the grocery store there closed.
Gateway Real Estate Partners, led by Ryan Woods of the Clayton office of commercial real estate firm Lee & Associates, has the property under contract for an undisclosed amount and is moving forward with development. A former partner with Woods, Cullinan Properties Ltd., a real estate development firm based in Peoria, Ill., is no longer associated with the deal.
Woods said he has tenant commitments for 60,000 square feet of space, including a fitness center. The project, if approved by city officials, will ultimately have 227,000 square feet of office and retail space and a 200-room hotel. “I’ve signed a deal with a hotel operator to buy the air rights,” Woods said. He declined to name the joint venture hotel partner or tenants until financing is in place. Woods said construction could start in June 2010 and be completed in 18 months.
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... ocus3.html
acant six years since Schnucks departed, the prime commercial corner at Hanley and Clayton roads is slated for a $116 million office, hotel and retail complex to feature what the developer says will be innovative architecture.
"We don't want to develop a project that looks like every other project — the corner is too important for that," said Ryan Woods, a principal at the St. Louis office of Lee & Associates, a commercial real estate firm, and head of Gateway Real Estate Partners, the project's developer. "We really want to explore an avant-garde design for the site."
....
Woods said this week that he expects to complete financing this month and begin construction in March after getting the necessary zoning approvals from the city of Clayton. If all goes to plan, construction will be completed by 2011.
"It does appear this (project) is going to happen."
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... enDocument
"We don't want to develop a project that looks like every other project — the corner is too important for that," said Ryan Woods, a principal at the St. Louis office of Lee & Associates, a commercial real estate firm, and head of Gateway Real Estate Partners, the project's developer. "We really want to explore an avant-garde design for the site."
....
Woods said this week that he expects to complete financing this month and begin construction in March after getting the necessary zoning approvals from the city of Clayton. If all goes to plan, construction will be completed by 2011.
"It does appear this (project) is going to happen."
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... enDocument
- 10K
Moorlander wrote:"We don't want to develop a project that looks like every other project — the corner is too important for that," said Ryan Woods, a principal at the St. Louis office of Lee & Associates, a commercial real estate firm, and head of Gateway Real Estate Partners, the project's developer. "We really want to explore an avant-garde design for the site."
Then go back to the drawing board.
- 1,642
It's not often you hear the words "avante garde" and a prospective new building in St. Louis in the same sentence.
I know it would take a few more years. But, wouldn't a condo/residential tower go so much better for this site? I think of all the hotels proposed and this has to be the least desirable spot.
- 8,912
Looks like Woods and Gateway Realty Partners are 0-2 this month as this project is dead too. I wonder how many more years Lipton will sit on it.
I was wondering about that project. I thought construction was supposed to start this year.
Moorlander, did you read or see something that confirmed this project was dead, or just by observing the lack of work at the site?
Moorlander, did you read or see something that confirmed this project was dead, or just by observing the lack of work at the site?
- 8,912
I've known about Wood's troubles for a few weeks.
It was also in this week's Bj...
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... tory6.html
It was also in this week's Bj...
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... tory6.html
Is there anything new on this space? I'm amazed this prime spot remains unused with an empty store sitting there as an eyesore.
That entire strip of Clayton Road is an enigma. Crappy old office buildings, semi-vacant strip retail -- and just like the Schnucks space, the old Layton's space has been vacant forever. Yet it's all adjacent to some of the highest-income residential in the area.
George Mahe reports that "Fresh Market" will go into the existing building
http://www.stlmag.com/Blogs/Relish/June ... sh-Market/
http://www.stlmag.com/Blogs/Relish/June ... sh-Market/
That's great that a grocery store is going in. It sucks that it is using the existing building. I hate seas of parking.
- 8,912
I guess I should be happy about a quality grocery opening up so close but sheesh when does the market over saturate?
Just off the top of my head - Within a mile (+-.5mi) or so we have
2 Schnucks
Dierbergs
Whole Foods
Trader Joe's
Straubs
Target
Walmart
Sam's
Just off the top of my head - Within a mile (+-.5mi) or so we have
2 Schnucks
Dierbergs
Whole Foods
Trader Joe's
Straubs
Target
Walmart
Sam's
I see what you're saying, but:moorlander wrote:I guess I should be happy about a quality grocery opening up so close but sheesh when does the market over saturate?
Just off the top of my head - Within a mile (+-.5mi) or so we have
2 Schnucks
Dierbergs
Whole Foods
Trader Joe's
Straubs
Target
Walmart
Sam's
- the Richmond Center Schnucks is the busiest is their chain and a complete madhouse
-Trader Joes seems overwhelmed and expanding
-I don't often shop at Whole Foods. But it's often crowded with all checkout lanes in use
-groceries at Target, Sams and WalMart are a completely different demographic
- 1,320
This former Schnucks site has always seemed strange to me because its obvious best use isn't ... well ... obvious. It could handle high-rise residential ... but were I planning to build a $50 million dollar condo tower, there are a hundred locations I would choose over this one. Same with office and retail. I hope Fresh Market does well there. I suspect they'll do fine.
On a related note:
it looks like the long-suffering Brentwood Schnucks is getting a decent remodel. Since it's similar to the CWE store, one would only hope they do the same thing there.
it looks like the long-suffering Brentwood Schnucks is getting a decent remodel. Since it's similar to the CWE store, one would only hope they do the same thing there.
- 215
One can only hope and dream. I get seriously angry every time I go into the CWE store that they're giving arguably the best neighborhood in the city the worst Schnuck's I've ever been in. It's an embarrassment to the company and an insult to the CWE residents. I feel like that whole suburban-style shopping center needs to be leveled and redone from scratch. I try to just avoid it altogether.dweebe wrote:On a related note:
it looks like the long-suffering Brentwood Schnucks is getting a decent remodel. Since it's similar to the CWE store, one would only hope they do the same thing there.