urbanSTL

I do not. I haven't really been involved with that project.

pat wrote:

The areas of the lid leading up to the highway may be 'heavily landscaped' but I would be very surprised if the section directly overlying the highway lanes ends up with anything more than grass or ground-cover.

You don't put in 10' foot walls to hold dirt for just grass.

I visited Dallas's park over the highway and it was very easy to tell where the highway began. I hope you are correct and we are going to get a superior end result.

I think whoever designed this project, and the reviewers looking at it, weren't paying much attention to the "negative space". From outside of the pedestrian canopies, they block a lot of views for pedestrians *outside* of the canopies. The Pine Street canopy pretty much obliterates the view of the Old Cathedral.

And the sidewalls of the Park Over the Highway are HUGE. They look like brutalistic Russian concrete designs from the 1960s. Talk about blocking views! These things are giant walls. The effect from anywhere outside of the Lid is quite oppressive.

^ http://www.mvvainc.com/staff.php?id=1

this guy designed it....not exactly an amateur

dbInSouthCity wrote:^ http://www.mvvainc.com/staff.php?id=1

this guy designed it....not exactly an amateur

MVV seems to default to these natural looking free-form projects that I find uninspired. I think he landscaped the Hope Clark plaza at BJC around Maya Lin's water feature and it is merely groupings of trees and perennials with no discernible pattern. They look just okay. I guess I prefer a more classical approach for the common areas in a city.
Wish they would have considered moving Pierre Laclede's statue from City Hall to Kiener Plaza area and creating a symmetrical park around it.

Bottom line for me : Not every landscape starchitect delivers a stunning product.

I think a wise person at one point in this thread may have predicated that MoDOT would be the only agency to finish their part of this grand job in time...and that GRG has no business managing the other part because they aren't qualified for such grand job...and of course now all the timelines on the GRG portion of the work keep getting pushed back.
tho one job that GRG will finish on time is the Sullivan Blvd (thats being administered by MoDOT)

I think a wise person at one point in this thread may have predicated that MoDOT would be the only agency to finish their part of this grand job in time...and that GRG has no business managing the other part because they aren't qualified for such grand job...and of course now all the timelines on the GRG portion of the work keep getting pushed back.
tho one job that GRG will finish on time is the Sullivan Blvd (thats being administered by MoDOT)

MoDOT is not administering the Sullivan project. GRG is. In GRG's defense, the project has been slowed down by weather as well as other things out of their control.

MoDOT Local Programs/Roads group is overseeing it too (there are federal funds involved and feds have MoDOT Local Programs group oversee any federal funds spent on local road system (cities/county roads). There is $11 million of TIGER that was moved from the LID to this job and $4m of Federal STP funds)

Weather has caused a small delay but the biggest issue is 10 contractors to manage...they should have awarded the job to 1 main contractor and have them sub out work instead of having 10 separate people to manage

MoDOT was involved in the design and was the approving agency but isn't around for the construction management. So to imply that the Sullivan job will finish on time due to MoDot is inaccurate. It will be because of the group managing construction.

I agree with you to an extent on the 10 separate contracts. A general with subs is more ideal. Lesson learned I'm sure on GRG's part. While its difficult to manage, I think success mostly relies on the contractor doing the work. If a contractor is doing poorly, the project suffers.

pat wrote:MoDOT was involved in the design and was the approving agency but isn't around for the construction management. So to imply that the Sullivan job will finish on time due to MoDot is inaccurate. It will be because of the group managing construction.

I agree with you to an extent on the 10 separate contracts. A general with subs is more ideal. Lesson learned I'm sure on GRG's part. While its difficult to manage, I think success mostly relies on the contractor doing the work. If a contractor isn't doing poorly, the project suffers.

There is a MoDOT Local Programs construction inspector assigned to the job...not sure how involved he is beyond pushing paper and signing off on invoices (but yes, he isn't out there actively managing the job) I believe HDR is going that?

Heading to the Rams game on Sunday, I exited from Northbound depressed lanes under the Park over the Highway using the new Washington Ave. exit ramp. I planned to exit and do the loop around back South along Memorial to Pine, and turn West to park in a garage on Pine. So many cars were backed up at the light at Washington, that traffic was backing onto I-44 creating a dangerous situation. I could have gotten past the stopped cars on the left, if MODOT had provide a two-lane exit. There is room. But instead the exit ramp starts out as a one-lane exit, narrowed by newly poured concrete, and later expands to let loop-around cars get past the stopped cars to the empty left lane.

I left a message with MODOT, and I am waiting for a reply. I think it would help the situation if cars just wanting to do the loop back could get past the cars waiting at the light to get across Washington, in order to reduce traffic backups onto the Interstate.

New design for Kiener Plaza:
Feedback Wanted on Monday, Nov 10th.
Monday’s open house will be held at Hilton St. Louis at the Ballpark from 4:00 to 7:00 p.m.

Read more: http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Keiner-P ... z3IQ2V2BKx





Here is the City Arch River press statement.
http://www.cityarchriver.org/2014/11/07 ... pen-house/

And STLToday:
http://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/r ... 24a57.html

Glad to see this is still happening at some point. I don't have strong opinions or high expectations on it, but some sort of refresh will be nice. Here's links to much higher res images:

http://www.cityarchriver.org/wp-content ... dsview.jpg

http://www.cityarchriver.org/wp-content ... arden1.jpg

i feel like the "Courthouse Lawn" is a bunch of wasted space that's going to turn into dead grass during the summer. it needs something to activate it like a water feature or a large sculpture or something. The current Keiner Plaza has a huge water feature so the utilities should be there already.

Roger, have a tough time seeing a café or beer garden succeeding when it can't even work for City Garden. I think it is going to take a few more years, residents and office workers downtown.

My mom posted this link on Facebook today from KTVI. Apparently there's a bit of an outcry over the loss of the fountain around the Runner statue. My mom isn't happy about it either.

http://fox2now.com/2014/11/08/renovatio ... -fountain/

To be honest, I didn't even notice that was gone when I first look. I'm not outraged, but I have to agree that I'd prefer to see them maintain some sort of water fixture in that area. It's fun to see it dyed during certain times of the year, and makes for some nice photos.

I stopped by the Hilton today to look at the ideas for Kiener Plaza.

Carousel idea has been scrapped
No fountains per se but a ' fountain room' is proposed where water jets will form the 'walls'
Several islands of shade trees.
Kid's play areas
Flexible space for events
North boundary will be next to a bike path and will cater to that with bike parking.
Possibility of a visitors center in the future next to the bike path.
They want to continue the City Garden tree-lined walkway but want to use London Plain trees to tie in with the arch grounds.
The landscaped median on Market street will be removed and Kiener plaza will become wider by that difference.
'Running man' will be relocated to somewhere along the edge of the new design.

They did mention that they are not trying to recreate City Garden. I just hope they can match the quality of materials used in City Garden.
Someone I met there was questioning the wisdom of spending 18 to 20 mil on redoing an okay Kiener when it could do so much for the north riverfront.

Yeah, I'm fine with Kiener the way it is, too. Like Enginerd said, it's just change for the sake of change. Dumb.