Belleville News-Democrat has a story update that the GRG/LKS project is set to groundbreak next month and be completed by April 2015 and the new entrance/museum is set to groundbreak next March and be complete a year later.
GRG/LKS is currently in the bidding process. Ground breaking is set for Nov 14th 12PM
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my skepticism turns out to be correct. Museum and north grounds won't be complete until 2016.roger wyoming II wrote:^ I'm pretty sure the museum is still part of the plans. Bids for the various components appear to be going out soon according to the CAR website. It does seem like an ambitious time frame.... I assume they will have to get the new space completed by at least three months prior to opening to allow for the installation, so if work begins let's say January 1 that only gives you about 18-20 months to complete the job.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 765c2.html
^ So for the anniversary of the Arch on OCt. 28, we'll have a "park" over the highway, new downtown exit/on-ramps (yay! 
) and the removal of Memorial Drive as the big visual "connection" to downtown St. Louis.
Still love the work being proposed for Wharf Street and the new museum and entrance should be outstanding, but there are soooo many head-scratchers with some of the other decisions...
) and the removal of Memorial Drive as the big visual "connection" to downtown St. Louis.Still love the work being proposed for Wharf Street and the new museum and entrance should be outstanding, but there are soooo many head-scratchers with some of the other decisions...
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^ to be fair, the riverfront trail is still expected to be completed as well as the south landscape. There is a ribbon-cutting on the trail work tomorrow at noon, btw.
^ Oh, definitely. The riverfront renovation is a big, BIG plus in my book. Great Rivers Greenway will very likely be a responsible steward and driven lead on that part of the project. But as far as the visual (and physical) "connection" between the Arch and downtown, as I said...well, that leaves something to be desired, to say the least.
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^ I am pretty stoked about the riverfront trail. I read somewhere yesterday (maybe Beacon) that Susan Trautmann of GRG said the Central Riverfront project will connect to the Choteau trailhead by 2015 and the South Riverfront Trail will be done all the way out to Jefferson Barracks in the next 5-7 years..... it will be awesome to be able to connect all the way from JB to Old Chain of Rocks. I hear you about the downtown connection. Oh and the same article mentioned west end of Keiner Plaza would be done by opening but not the east end.... I can't recall what design plans are for Keiner... can anyone help?
Yes, that's correct. That's what Trautmann said at the ground breaking. The riverfront project extends all the way to Chouteau where there will be small trailhead (kind of like the Power Station up north, but no parking). They plan to connect that trail all the way to Jefferson Barracks in the future.
Tom Bradley from the NPS said he hopes to attend another ground breaking in the coming months for Kiener Plaza.
Go to the Kiener Plaza Photo of this link. http://www.cityarchriver.org/about-the- ... lan-scope/. I think that'll give you the best idea.
Tom Bradley from the NPS said he hopes to attend another ground breaking in the coming months for Kiener Plaza.
Go to the Kiener Plaza Photo of this link. http://www.cityarchriver.org/about-the- ... lan-scope/. I think that'll give you the best idea.
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I hate to say this, but I feel like this whole project is much more of a remuddle than a remodel. So many missed opportunities combined with half-arsed solutions and answers to questions no one ever asked.
On the subject of GRG, anyone know when the stretch of Centennial between Olive/170 and Creve Coeur Lake will be completed? The website offers no clear timing, and only says they are in the process of land acquisition.
314, I agree with you. I'm a huge fan of connecting the riverfront trail to Jefferson barracks, but the whole plan is just lacking. I LOVE the rendering of the area where Washington ave used to be located (huge mistake removing it), with tons of people milling around the "amphitheater". Aside from a few seasonal concerts this will be completely deserted.
What happened to a huge amphitheater on the east side facing the arch grounds? That along with a gondola would have created a reason for getting people over there. Will this part of the plan even happen now? And what would be the reason to take it across the river? Perhaps once, but never again.
What happened to a huge amphitheater on the east side facing the arch grounds? That along with a gondola would have created a reason for getting people over there. Will this part of the plan even happen now? And what would be the reason to take it across the river? Perhaps once, but never again.
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A arch park ranger is on reddit looking for ideas for events to hold on the arch grounds.
A couple construction cameras
Riverfront
http://www.cityarchriver.org/construction/webcam/
Walnut
http://oxblue.com/open/modot/cityarchriver
Riverfront
http://www.cityarchriver.org/construction/webcam/
Walnut
http://oxblue.com/open/modot/cityarchriver
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Report to the Community, Feb 5th, 6 PM, Doors open at 5:30 PM, Ferrara Theatre at the America’s Center.
http://www.cityarchriver.org/2014/01/07 ... eb-5-2014/
http://www.cityarchriver.org/2014/01/07 ... eb-5-2014/
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Today's news is reporting that the October 2015 deadline is more than a year delayed with completion now pushed back to late 2016...maybe?
There's a very odd situation on the riverfront at the project site. There are no signs anywhere about what is going on. Isn't that a violation of federal law?
Aren't federally funded projects supposed to post signage about the project, where the funding is coming from, what it is, etc?
But regardless of the legal requirements, wouldn't City Arch River Foundation and the National Park Service WANT to post some signs? Right now, all there is is a lot of traffic barriers and construction workers, but no info about what's going on. That's just bizarre.
I was thinking it would be cool if they put up one of those "countdown-the-#- of-days-left-till-completion" tickers too, but given all the delays, maybe that would be such a good idea...
There's a very odd situation on the riverfront at the project site. There are no signs anywhere about what is going on. Isn't that a violation of federal law?
Aren't federally funded projects supposed to post signage about the project, where the funding is coming from, what it is, etc?
But regardless of the legal requirements, wouldn't City Arch River Foundation and the National Park Service WANT to post some signs? Right now, all there is is a lot of traffic barriers and construction workers, but no info about what's going on. That's just bizarre.
I was thinking it would be cool if they put up one of those "countdown-the-#- of-days-left-till-completion" tickers too, but given all the delays, maybe that would be such a good idea...
^Northside, Believe the riverside work is being done under a Greenway District contract via funding from the local sales tax. Don't believe any Federal construction contracts or funds are involved on the riverfront. What Federal Grant money that is available, believe through a TIGER grant, is for the lid if not mistaken. As far as National Park, have no idea if any of the work will actual be put out to bid under a federal contract. MoDOT is doing the lid. Not sure how Park/Museum improvements will be handled.
However, still odd as owners like to show off what they have coming. Maybe the GRG doesn't have project signs in their construction spec, maybe with winter any signage requirements is being ignored, maybe the multiple stakeholders all thought the other guy would be doing the PR and so on. But your right on Federal projects. As many agencies such as the Corps of Engineers have project signage requirements that is specific to their contract.
However, still odd as owners like to show off what they have coming. Maybe the GRG doesn't have project signs in their construction spec, maybe with winter any signage requirements is being ignored, maybe the multiple stakeholders all thought the other guy would be doing the PR and so on. But your right on Federal projects. As many agencies such as the Corps of Engineers have project signage requirements that is specific to their contract.
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It just strikes me as very odd practice that on the same day the CAR people are holding their big shindig report to the community on what's going on (probably spending a fair amount of time explaining why the project is behind schedule), that meanwhile, over at the actual project, where thousands of people drive by on a daily basis, there's nothing. No sign, no big PR here's what's coming, etc.
All in the name of "transparency". Tssssk.
Those signs should have been up the day of the big groundbreaking - when was that, October?? Nearly a $400,000,000 construction site at a national historic landmark/federal park, and not one. frigging. sign.
That's pathetic and a blown opportunity.
Yeah, they'll probably have the signs up by spring, but seriously, folks, we can do a lot better.
All in the name of "transparency". Tssssk.
Those signs should have been up the day of the big groundbreaking - when was that, October?? Nearly a $400,000,000 construction site at a national historic landmark/federal park, and not one. frigging. sign.
That's pathetic and a blown opportunity.
Yeah, they'll probably have the signs up by spring, but seriously, folks, we can do a lot better.
Agreed. City+Arch+River and the City (having basically rubber-stamped the whole damn thing so far) should have to own the work they're doing. For better or worse.
In Chicago, for instance, you won't see any project going on that doesn't have one of these:
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No apologies or "sorry for the inconvenience." They're claiming the construction as their own and for the better, not trying to placate citizens or pass the buck.
In Chicago, for instance, you won't see any project going on that doesn't have one of these:
No apologies or "sorry for the inconvenience." They're claiming the construction as their own and for the better, not trying to placate citizens or pass the buck.
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Anyone attend the update event last night?
From the various reports, it didn't seem to have much new but I'm still not clear on whether the garage is indeed a goner and what the precise plan is for Keiner Plaza.... e.g. having a restaurant, etc.
From the various reports, it didn't seem to have much new but I'm still not clear on whether the garage is indeed a goner and what the precise plan is for Keiner Plaza.... e.g. having a restaurant, etc.
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I attended. Here is a video of the presentations:
http://youtu.be/T7sy5KBq9z4
Not a lot new. They say they are not as far behind as the Post Dispatch story implied -- the last things to be completed are peripheral things that the public probably will not even notice in early 2016 when everything else gets done.
They have a picture that shows the project split into several numbered zones including the parking garage replacement and Kiener Plaza. Zones 1 and 2 are the POTH and riverfront, and they are underway. CAR says work on all of the zones will have been started by the end of 2014. They will solicit contracts for the two reflecting ponds this month.
They plan to rename Kiener Plaza Old Courthouse Plaza. They have some kind of agreement or cooperation from 4 parking garage companies downtown along Kiener, I believe for Arch parking. They had an overlay showing that walking distance will be no more than the length of the Galleria Mall.
They talked a lot about using the grounds for programmed events -- especially the new area that replaces the parking garage. They picture it being like Millenium Park for planned events using the grounds as amphitheaters, etc. Also, they talked about grass hills between the railroad tracks and river where people could sit at watch events, or just the River.
Michael Van Valkenburgh talked via video recording, because he got stuck in NY due to the snowstorm. I liked his goal of making the whole space more lively for events and a place people will want to come and use. He was saying people want something inviting and user oriented more nowadays vs. a big lovely park. So if it could become more like Forest Park in terms of local usage, that would great. The advisory panel suggested food and drink options in the park.
http://youtu.be/T7sy5KBq9z4
Not a lot new. They say they are not as far behind as the Post Dispatch story implied -- the last things to be completed are peripheral things that the public probably will not even notice in early 2016 when everything else gets done.
They have a picture that shows the project split into several numbered zones including the parking garage replacement and Kiener Plaza. Zones 1 and 2 are the POTH and riverfront, and they are underway. CAR says work on all of the zones will have been started by the end of 2014. They will solicit contracts for the two reflecting ponds this month.
They plan to rename Kiener Plaza Old Courthouse Plaza. They have some kind of agreement or cooperation from 4 parking garage companies downtown along Kiener, I believe for Arch parking. They had an overlay showing that walking distance will be no more than the length of the Galleria Mall.
They talked a lot about using the grounds for programmed events -- especially the new area that replaces the parking garage. They picture it being like Millenium Park for planned events using the grounds as amphitheaters, etc. Also, they talked about grass hills between the railroad tracks and river where people could sit at watch events, or just the River.
Michael Van Valkenburgh talked via video recording, because he got stuck in NY due to the snowstorm. I liked his goal of making the whole space more lively for events and a place people will want to come and use. He was saying people want something inviting and user oriented more nowadays vs. a big lovely park. So if it could become more like Forest Park in terms of local usage, that would great. The advisory panel suggested food and drink options in the park.
^I think programming is a hugely important part. The Arch grounds aren't an everyday park for residents. I wish they would have designed it more that way, but I digress. Think about the Gateway Mall. Its only used for big events. Other than that, it's empty. I see the Arch grounds in the same light. They will need weekly programming events to get people down there consistently.
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Thanks for the update. My personal feelings are I am very much looking forward to this and think it will be a nice improvement while also lamenting not pursuing the boulevard option. In terms of events and programming, it will be interesting to see the interplay between the Arch Grounds, Keiner Plaza/Old Courthouse Plaza/Citygarden and BPV. There sure will be a heckuva lot more for families to do downtown when this is all done and I hope they are all successful! And Blues Museum!gary kreie wrote:I attended. Here is a video of the presentations:
http://youtu.be/T7sy5KBq9z4
Not a lot new. They say they are not as far behind as the Post Dispatch story implied -- the last things to be completed are peripheral things that the public probably will not even notice in early 2016 when everything else gets done.
They have a picture that shows the project split into several numbered zones including the parking garage replacement and Kiener Plaza. Zones 1 and 2 are the POTH and riverfront, and they are underway. CAR says work on all of the zones will have been started by the end of 2014. They will solicit contracts for the two reflecting ponds this month.
They plan to rename Kiener Plaza Old Courthouse Plaza. They have some kind of agreement or cooperation from 4 parking garage companies downtown along Kiener, I believe for Arch parking. They had an overlay showing that walking distance will be no more than the length of the Galleria Mall.
They talked a lot about using the grounds for programmed events -- especially the new area that replaces the parking garage. They picture it being like Millenium Park for planned events using the grounds as amphitheaters, etc. Also, they talked about grass hills between the railroad tracks and river where people could sit at watch events, or just the River.
Michael Van Valkenburgh talked via video recording, because he got stuck in NY due to the snowstorm. I liked his goal of making the whole space more lively for events and a place people will want to come and use. He was saying people want something inviting and user oriented more nowadays vs. a big lovely park. So if it could become more like Forest Park in terms of local usage, that would great. The advisory panel suggested food and drink options in the park.
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I visited Versailles in France last summer. We paid money for the inside tour and were stunned that a monarch could waste this kind of money on opulence while people in Paris were hungry. (Current US income inequality may be worse.) But playing Louis XIV advocate and looking at the very long run -- how much money have they made off this over-the-top showcase in the 225 years following the revolution.
The Versailles grounds were beautiful and immaculate, but buzzing with activity. They found ways to hide outdoor cafe's within giant manicured hedge and tree formations without changing the outward appearance of the gardens. The Arch Grounds could do something similar without visually impacting Dan Kiley's original vision.
The Versailles grounds were beautiful and immaculate, but buzzing with activity. They found ways to hide outdoor cafe's within giant manicured hedge and tree formations without changing the outward appearance of the gardens. The Arch Grounds could do something similar without visually impacting Dan Kiley's original vision.
Roger, I really don't understand the north end in terms of designing space for programing events in the context that downtown has so so much space set aside, and growing if you add Ballpark Live and LHM Union Station rehab, to program events. Also, wouldn't you want some smaller events be focused around the renamed courthouse plaza or the expanded museum itself? Nor do I see what you gain from moving events from one space such as gateway mall or OPO to arch grounds. The interplay in my mind will be that one place gets busier while another gets quieter.
In the meantime, I think one of the few unique ideas as of late for event programming is large screen broadcasting Cards away games at the Ballpark Live space as posted on the BPV thread. Throw in a few soccer game broadcasts - Say a Tuesday or Sunday night series that coincides with one of the European leagues and you got an event that doesn't have a take away from other spaces.
I do like the idea of removing the garage (especially if it helps Drury put a tower on Lacledes Landing). Just think that design firm and committee went with an easy out. We have space, its public so we must have a stage for events idea.
In the meantime, I think one of the few unique ideas as of late for event programming is large screen broadcasting Cards away games at the Ballpark Live space as posted on the BPV thread. Throw in a few soccer game broadcasts - Say a Tuesday or Sunday night series that coincides with one of the European leagues and you got an event that doesn't have a take away from other spaces.
I do like the idea of removing the garage (especially if it helps Drury put a tower on Lacledes Landing). Just think that design firm and committee went with an easy out. We have space, its public so we must have a stage for events idea.
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New Haven wants to remove a highway and replace it with a boulevard. If they can do it we can.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/reale ... .html?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/reale ... .html?_r=0