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From the new transpo secretary.
Foxx, the former mayor of Charlotte, acknowledged that some of the decisions made decades ago severed communities from their rivers. “It’s a reality that in previous eras, people weren’t always as sensitive to quality of life issues when they were building… highways and things like that,” he said.
“But it’s kind of hard to imagine undoing,” he continued.
Still, he said, gesturing at the highway that will soon be capped behind him, “what we’re talking about here is a mitigation strategy that works.”
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 01039.html
Foxx, the former mayor of Charlotte, acknowledged that some of the decisions made decades ago severed communities from their rivers. “It’s a reality that in previous eras, people weren’t always as sensitive to quality of life issues when they were building… highways and things like that,” he said.
“But it’s kind of hard to imagine undoing,” he continued.
Still, he said, gesturing at the highway that will soon be capped behind him, “what we’re talking about here is a mitigation strategy that works.”
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 01039.html
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Could be. Especially after a few years of wear and tear.thefuturepassed wrote:Those pedestrian walkways look horrible IMO.
I agree the pedestrian walkways look dated already and there not even built yet.
And for those of you worried about the awful route from Washington Avenue under the elevated lanes of 70 to the Arch grounds:
On a serious note, has anyone seen a rendering of this? I'm having a hard time imagining this as anything even halfway effective, but maybe I'm just being cynical.
There will be a lighted metallic screen! Problem solved!The bleak concrete support pedestals holding up the elevated lanes of I-70 will get wrapped with a lighted metallic screen. The effect — a “shimmering” wall — will guide visitors to the Arch grounds and Laclede’s Landing, said project manager James Smith, a senior associate for design team Michael Van Valkenburgh Associates.
On a serious note, has anyone seen a rendering of this? I'm having a hard time imagining this as anything even halfway effective, but maybe I'm just being cynical.
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^This was the last I remember seeing, from January:
geoffksu wrote:MoDOT's engineers, EFK Moen and others are now in the process of finalizing the construction documents for I-70 and the work from Washington north to Cass that includes the Third Street Streetscape.roger wyoming II wrote:According to MODOT's response to a Road Crew question I submitted last week, look for work to begin in earnest on the I-70 project around late Summer, particularly beginning around north of Washington and then working its way south with time.
MVVA has also been working on designs for enclosing the space under the elevated highway (from just south of Washington Ave to Cass Ave) with a complex lighting structure:
As well, they are designing a system of lighted bands to be hung underneath the bridge structure where Washington Ave crosses:
Separately, my firm has completed the design for the Third Street Streetscape:
Proposed festival space (currently North Third Street between Lucas and Tucker), Third Street and Memorial Drive will consolidate and be improved with a pedestrian-focused design - opposite of MoDOT's original 'Suburban Outer Road' design:
And, at night:
All of the stakeholders (business owners) we met with from the Landing and Drury were very excited to see the improvements to Third Street and were already thinking up ways to incorporate their business to use the space or move other events to this space in the future. Between this improvement to Third Street (face of the Landing) and the streetscape improvements to Second Street and First Street (construction to start anyday), the Landing will see nearly all of its streetscape infrastructure rehabilitated or reconstructed within the next few years (keeping its historical material context of course).
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JUST TEAR THAT PIECE OF MONKEY sh*t DOWN ALREADY. I hope you read this forum and take note, MoDOT! Why won't you listen to, well, basically the entire city? We want it gone.
I think you got it backwards. MoDOT is listening!!, I wouldn't doubt if a good number of south city residents and almost all of south county rather keep the freeway because the percieved inconvenience of adding a couple minutes to the travel time getting to the airport and such. Where as most what is left of north city residents don't really care and most north county residents have the same opinion, don't want the percieved inconvenience. I honestly believe that is what is being expressed to local politicians in large part and passed onto MoDOT.Gateway City wrote:JUST TEAR THAT PIECE OF MONKEY sh*t DOWN ALREADY. I hope you read this forum and take note, MoDOT! Why won't you listen to, well, basically the entire city? We want it gone.
Yes, their is an active and focal group in City to River, but how many people within the city and county listening or taking a favorable position? and expressing as such? But I just don't think the numbers are even close to that basically the entire city is in agreement, let alone St. Louis County.
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A push to make Lakeshore Dr a boulevard that's friendly to all forms of transportation. Lakeshore isn't technically a freeway but can act as one with speeds up to 60 mph.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/transporta ... drive.html
http://www.suntimes.com/news/transporta ... drive.html
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I know they broke ground on the Park over the Highway, and this piece in today's Post talks about the construction that will go on down on the Riverfront.
"Construction plans now call for substantial portions of the roads around the Arch grounds to be under construction from April 2014 through July 2015; and sections of Leonor K. Sullivan Boulevard will be closed from November through September 2015."
What is going on with the Museum expansion. No mention of it in this piece. I can't seem to find a timetable for that. How can it done by 2015 unless they break ground soon?
http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/colu ... 7fa37.html
"Construction plans now call for substantial portions of the roads around the Arch grounds to be under construction from April 2014 through July 2015; and sections of Leonor K. Sullivan Boulevard will be closed from November through September 2015."
What is going on with the Museum expansion. No mention of it in this piece. I can't seem to find a timetable for that. How can it done by 2015 unless they break ground soon?
http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/colu ... 7fa37.html
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^ I'm pretty sure the museum is still part of the plans. Bids for the various components appear to be going out soon according to the CAR website. It does seem like an ambitious time frame.... I assume they will have to get the new space completed by at least three months prior to opening to allow for the installation, so if work begins let's say January 1 that only gives you about 18-20 months to complete the job.
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Central Riverfront Construction Pre-Bid Conference & networking event for CityArchRiver project
October 7 - 10:00 a.m.
This pre-bid conference will focus on the Central Riverfront components of the CityArchRiver 2015 project - including the elevation of Leonor K. Sullivan Boulevard, the addition of pedestrian pathways and a separated bikeway and more.
http://www.greatriversgreenway.org/news ... ntryid=176
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October 7 - 10:00 a.m.
This pre-bid conference will focus on the Central Riverfront components of the CityArchRiver 2015 project - including the elevation of Leonor K. Sullivan Boulevard, the addition of pedestrian pathways and a separated bikeway and more.
http://www.greatriversgreenway.org/news ... ntryid=176
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What happens if after they build the "Park Over the Highway", it turns into mostly a big dead space? Picture a few moms pushing strollers across, occasional groups of tourists walking around, and a handful joggers on their runs. Pretty dull. Not exactly hustle and bustle....
Will they hire street performers and food vendors? Lots of daily programming to pull people out of their cubicles and onto the Lid?
Hopefully it won't be one of those things when on the day of the big ribbon cutting, the VIPs cut the ribbon, you get the big photo op, and then after all the pomp, people go their own ways and it turns into a big empty space.
One thing about folks crossing the current Memorial Drive, you see them and they are mixed in with cars and other activity.
With the Park Over the Highway, they'll be sort of invisible.
Will they hire street performers and food vendors? Lots of daily programming to pull people out of their cubicles and onto the Lid?
Hopefully it won't be one of those things when on the day of the big ribbon cutting, the VIPs cut the ribbon, you get the big photo op, and then after all the pomp, people go their own ways and it turns into a big empty space.
One thing about folks crossing the current Memorial Drive, you see them and they are mixed in with cars and other activity.
With the Park Over the Highway, they'll be sort of invisible.
Tourists wandering, moms pushing strollers, joggers running by, people cutting over to the casino/landing... that sounds like normal city activity to me. What are you expecting, Times Square?
Agreed. We can build our own time square when we get a modern highrise business and residential district in midtown in about 20-40 yearswabash wrote:Tourists wandering, moms pushing strollers, joggers running by, people cutting over to the casino/landing... that sounds like normal city activity to me. What are you expecting, Times Square?
. The riverfront should be nature. We do need to extend the parkscape for miles north and south of the arch though. Its hard to figure out how to do this with all the rail infrastructure there. Same thing for the rail lines that run directly through the middle of the city. Move them or put a cap park over them. My favorite idea is to replace the rail lines area with a long lake and park system that goes from forest park to just south of the arch. That way, we'd have our own urban site for sailboats and other cool water sports.In a modern city, there is no reason for these industrial zones to be so close to residential and commercial zones. It will take decades of work and lots of money but theres no reason why we couldn't turn these into nice urban parks and move the tracks and ports to where they are less bothersome.
As a totally unrealistic and impossible and fantastical aside, we should just annex East St. Louis and do something with it. Or some various local governments in the metro east could join a coalition government with St. Louis City and County to make a unified governing and planning body. Downtown will forever be dragged behind as long as it is across the river from terrible blight and nobody important will be interested in making our skyline attractive as long as everyone is afraid to go across to the east to see it. I see no easy ways of doing this though. But if Missouri is fairly competent at building metros at either side of our state, Illinois could do the same but its is much more lopsided with focusing all its attention on Chicago.
Finally, let me talk about Cahokia. We need to do something to publicize this place to the rest of the world and turn it into a real historical site. Somebody needs to buy more land around it, get rid of the farms and that ugly road that runs right through it and turn it into an improved historical site, complete with restored woodwork. People fly halfway across the world to see the pyramids of Mexico and Egypt in the middle of the desert and jungle but they won't travel 20 min outside of St. Louis to see the largest city in North American a thousand years ago.
There needs to be a free express tourist bus that runs from Cahokia to the Arch to WashAve to Grand Center to the CWE and to The Zoo and Art Museum. If you can walk to one, you can visit them all!
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Not Times Square, but maybe something closer to Millenium Park.Tourists wandering, moms pushing strollers, joggers running by, people cutting over to the casino/landing... that sounds like normal city activity to me. What are you expecting, Times Square?
For "historic preservation" reasons, the NPS has foreclosed on so many "active uses" on the Arch grounds, that the place is more still and quiet than it needs to be.
It's a huge site, but forget about the idea of softball fields, soccer fields, tennis courts, anything that would draw a steady stream of locals.
Instead, and your comment reinforces it, the site is pretty much aimed at a suburban, commuter, tourist audience.
It's too bad that instead the park doesn't double as the main downtown city park. There are 10,000 people living downtown. Where do they go to play softball and tennis?
This will likely never happen. Isn't our riverfront is the largest inland port in North America? It's a working riverfront and rail access is vital to our local economy and the nation's economy. It's a key link in our competitive agribusiness location.In a modern city, there is no reason for these industrial zones to be so close to residential and commercial zones. It will take decades of work and lots of money but theres no reason why we couldn't turn these into nice urban parks and move the tracks and ports to where they are less bothersome.
Our skyline is already pretty awesome when viewed from the East Side. I don't think "everyone is afraid" to go there to see it.Downtown will forever be dragged behind as long as it is across the river from terrible blight and nobody important will be interested in making our skyline attractive as long as everyone is afraid to go across to the east to see it.
Forever is a long time though. There is no reason why we can't have miles of beautiful riverfront like many european cities do. They all had highly industrial riverfronts at one point too. Look at London, whose riverfront was the busiest port in the entire world at one point. They decided to rebuild their port south of the city where it had more space and could fit more capacity with modern technology. Now the London riverfront is beautifully decorated with modern architecture and highrises. We just decided that its not worth the investment yet. You're right that it probably won't happen in many decades but its important to be forward thinking and move towards it, even if very slowly. If we don't have a final goal, we won't know what steps to take to reach it.Northside Neighbor wrote: This will likely never happen. Isn't our riverfront is the largest inland port in North America? It's a working riverfront and rail access is vital to our local economy and the nation's economy. It's a key link in our competitive agribusiness location.
It does look pretty awesome. I was being overly dramatic when talking about everybody. Its an underappreciated aspect of our city though. The east side could easily support a boardwalk and a busy tourist area or college campus overlooking downtown though. I'd say <1% of the visitors to the arch go to the corresponding park on the other side. It is because of the stigma and truth of the crime of East St. Louis that this valuable resource hasn't been fully developed yet.Our skyline is already pretty awesome when viewed from the East Side. I don't think "everyone is afraid" to go there to see it.
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Holy moly, Juan! Lots of stuff here and I think you might be pleased on some efforts towards your vision. Here are some of my thoughts:JuanHamez wrote:Agreed. We can build our own time square when we get a modern highrise business and residential district in midtown in about 20-40 yearswabash wrote:Tourists wandering, moms pushing strollers, joggers running by, people cutting over to the casino/landing... that sounds like normal city activity to me. What are you expecting, Times Square?
In a modern city, there is no reason for these industrial zones to be so close to residential and commercial zones. It will take decades of work and lots of money but theres no reason why we couldn't turn these into nice urban parks and move the tracks and ports to where they are less bothersome.
As a totally unrealistic and impossible and fantastical aside, we should just annex East St. Louis and do something with it. Or some various local governments in the metro east could join a coalition government with St. Louis City and County to make a unified governing and planning body. Downtown will forever be dragged behind as long as it is across the river from terrible blight and nobody important will be interested in making our skyline attractive as long as everyone is afraid to go across to the east to see it. I see no easy ways of doing this though. But if Missouri is fairly competent at building metros at either side of our state, Illinois could do the same but its is much more lopsided with focusing all its attention on Chicago.
Finally, let me talk about Cahokia. We need to do something to publicize this place to the rest of the world and turn it into a real historical site. Somebody needs to buy more land around it, get rid of the farms and that ugly road that runs right through it and turn it into an improved historical site, complete with restored woodwork. People fly halfway across the world to see the pyramids of Mexico and Egypt in the middle of the desert and jungle but they won't travel 20 min outside of St. Louis to see the largest city in North American a thousand years ago.
There needs to be a free express tourist bus that runs from Cahokia to the Arch to WashAve to Grand Center to the CWE and to The Zoo and Art Museum. If you can walk to one, you can visit them all!
Riverfront Parkscape: Incoporating our industrial reality and heritage into the Riverfront public space certainly is a challenge but when creatively done can heighten the experience. Of course GRG is enhancing Sullivan Blvd, as part of the Arch project and it continues to plan for the South Riverfront Expansion and enhance the North Riverfront Trail experience. For example, it has obtained a large surface lot formerly used for the defunct riverboat casino and hopes to do something creative with it. Other land gifts/acquisitions such as by the Old Chain of the Rocks Bridge and The Trestle also hold promise for exciting enhancements. Also, too. private projects such as the Bissinger's move and the Cotton Belt building re-use will add more attractions and opportunities for exploration off the Trail. (Anyone know if Cementland is still being pursued?) And of course the new bridge adds an exciting backdrop. Also, the Mounds Heritage Trail continues to be developed and with time should prove an exciting way to experience the riverfront and our Mounds Heritage.
Cahokia: In addition to the Mounds Heritage Trail, another exciting development is the rather well-funded planning initiative that is exploring how to boost heritage tourism efforts for the larger Cahokia experience in the region and bring the Mounds into a more prominent stature, perhaps as a National Park or similar.
East Saint Louis riverfront: Very tough one with all the highway ramps and rail, but with time hopefully NPS/C+A-R can do something ambitious with it. In the meantime, I think it would be cool if they could work with Cargill to have some kind of aesthetically pleasing and appropriate treatment of the silos and perhaps feature evening light shows on it.... just a thought.
World Monument Fund puts the Arch on its endangered list:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... 50de7.html
As far as I know, Dept. of Interior is not putting any sizable funding into the C+A+R implementation (although separately it will be paying for the tree replacement project)....hopefully it will at least be able to address the staining issue soon.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... 50de7.html
As far as I know, Dept. of Interior is not putting any sizable funding into the C+A+R implementation (although separately it will be paying for the tree replacement project)....hopefully it will at least be able to address the staining issue soon.
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^Heard this last night on a news broadcast... Absolutely astounding. This subject has been brought up beforehand, here and in the Post-Dispatch, how the Parks Service has no real idea how to clean the Arch, as the how-to instructions were never created nor the need for cleaning even considered. One can eyeball the stains on the stainless steel from Broadway. Still, our focus is C-A-R. It's as if we're so busy trying to clean up the yard, plant new grass, and build a deck that we don't see our house is falling apart.
This needs to be as big a news story here in STL as the Cardinals playing in Game Five tonight.
This needs to be as big a news story here in STL as the Cardinals playing in Game Five tonight.
Addendum: There really is a noticeable trend in STL's mid-century modernist mega projects being planned only to a certain degree before being abandoned to the elements...
- Pruitt-Igoe was built as the ideal urban living world, the replacement to acres of old brick houses, replaced with tall, orderly, and identical buildings all in a row. Too bad, though, that they didn't have the money to keep up the maintenance.
- Darst-Webbe: Same damn thing. Thank God they didn't kill the City Hospital or Lafayette Square with it.
- The Arch Grounds replaced about 40 City blocks. When the buildings came down, the companies moved out, many to the County, instead of relocating in Downtown. Now, Downtown is in great need for companies to locate themselves there while the County thrives. Did no one consider what to do with the Central Business District when they kick out 40 blocks of businesses?
- The Gateway Mall was drawn together like the wet dream of a modernist apostle, with matching modern buildings and a symmetrical stretch of parkland splitting the Arch before straight down the heart of Downtown. And again, to hell with the companies on this block. Not only did it split the core of the Central Business District in half for barely used parkland (not even fully symmetrical), but it led to even more businesses leaving the City.
- The Arch itself. It's corroding inside and out to the point where our monument, the tallest piece of pure sculpture in the world, is now being compared to sites in Syria being bombed by al-Assad. And for what, rioting? Anarchy? Revolution? Nope, simple neglect brought on by a lack of foresight.
How the hell did our City ever make it out of the Cold War? Not against the Soviets, but against ourselves...
- Pruitt-Igoe was built as the ideal urban living world, the replacement to acres of old brick houses, replaced with tall, orderly, and identical buildings all in a row. Too bad, though, that they didn't have the money to keep up the maintenance.
- Darst-Webbe: Same damn thing. Thank God they didn't kill the City Hospital or Lafayette Square with it.
- The Arch Grounds replaced about 40 City blocks. When the buildings came down, the companies moved out, many to the County, instead of relocating in Downtown. Now, Downtown is in great need for companies to locate themselves there while the County thrives. Did no one consider what to do with the Central Business District when they kick out 40 blocks of businesses?
- The Gateway Mall was drawn together like the wet dream of a modernist apostle, with matching modern buildings and a symmetrical stretch of parkland splitting the Arch before straight down the heart of Downtown. And again, to hell with the companies on this block. Not only did it split the core of the Central Business District in half for barely used parkland (not even fully symmetrical), but it led to even more businesses leaving the City.
- The Arch itself. It's corroding inside and out to the point where our monument, the tallest piece of pure sculpture in the world, is now being compared to sites in Syria being bombed by al-Assad. And for what, rioting? Anarchy? Revolution? Nope, simple neglect brought on by a lack of foresight.
How the hell did our City ever make it out of the Cold War? Not against the Soviets, but against ourselves...
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^ who compared the Arch to bomb sites in Syria? it's not even a comparison that makes sense.
gone corporate wrote:It's corroding inside and out to the point where our monument, the tallest piece of pure sculpture in the world, is now being compared to sites in Syria being bombed by al-Assad.
This is overly dramatic. The Arch is in great shape structurally, it just has some cosmetic issues from the staining & discoloration of the steel.gone corporate wrote:It's as if we're so busy trying to clean up the yard, plant new grass, and build a deck that we don't see our house is falling apart.