0% of the cities/region future hinges on the Rams being here or not being here.
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You could say basically the same thing about any city on earth. Replacing "NFL team" with whatever other particular fixation someone might have.Mound City wrote: It's not really about "priorities." I'm compelled to ask: what specifically about St. Louis makes this place a priority for you? I could be mistaken, but unless your answer involves things that are truly irreplaceable and personal to you (all my business contacts are here, all my best friends from childhood are here, I want to be closer to my family, I've already put down roots and my kids love their school, etc.), then I predict that those same things can be found, in spades, in a plethora of other nearby cities.
The difference is those cities will probably also have an NFL team.
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A lot of blame is placed on the "Top Tier" clause of the lease, but as this has played out it seems irrelevant... Stan has stars in his eyes and we would be in the same position in 10-years.moorlander wrote:The 700 million would have only guaranteed 10 more years in lease agreements from the Rams.
If Stan is allowed to go, this does seem to set the precedent that once your stadium lease is up you are free to move your team. Just refuse to negotiate with the home town, trash the town and fans, and negotiate a new deal in another town at the same time.
Will we see a local ownership group emerge to bring MLS to St Louis? That would satisfy me if NFL is gone.
Are there actually any legitimate lawsuits for St Louis to bring against NFL or Stan?
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Maybe we could argue we wasted millions studying a stadium when the NFL wasn't actually negotiating in good faith, or something? I don't see it going anywhere except as a publicity stunt. The NFL is a private organization that makes its own rules, so it's not like laws were broken or anything.jakektu wrote:Are there actually any legitimate lawsuits for St Louis to bring against NFL or Stan?
Chances are they are going to sneak out in the middle of the night, if they aren't already gone, but I would love for St. Louisans to line the highway and streets the Rams are leaving on carrying signs saying "Bye Stan, Fu*k You" (emphasis on Stan - not the NFL or Rams).
The region should hold a downtown tailgate party to celebrate his departure.
The songs, "I Will Survive", "We Are The Champions" and Steam's "Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye", would play in the background.
Seriously, St. Louis must find a way to keep Kroenke's action from getting into the region's psyche and to let him know he's not welcomed anymore.
Then boycott all of his shopping developments in metro St. Louis. The one's both in Missouri and Illinois.
Hit him where it hurts. He's a billionaire whose using St. Louisans to line his pockets, yet he bad mouths the region.
Boycott all of his local developments. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.
The region should hold a downtown tailgate party to celebrate his departure.
The songs, "I Will Survive", "We Are The Champions" and Steam's "Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye", would play in the background.
Seriously, St. Louis must find a way to keep Kroenke's action from getting into the region's psyche and to let him know he's not welcomed anymore.
Then boycott all of his shopping developments in metro St. Louis. The one's both in Missouri and Illinois.
Hit him where it hurts. He's a billionaire whose using St. Louisans to line his pockets, yet he bad mouths the region.
Boycott all of his local developments. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.
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RSA has now spent over $16M on the stadium effort and is running out of money. That's $16M less to take care of the Dome and Convention Center needs. But congrats to all who got paid!
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news ... ml?ana=twt
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news ... ml?ana=twt
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I hate to say it, but I don’t know if we have a legal leg to stand on. StanK played the game to perfection. I truly believe, when he bumped aside Kahn, to take control of the Rams, he knew back then, he was going to push to LA. By staying silent, he has executed his plan to perfection. He utilized that awful lease provision perfectly. That will be the reason STL would lose (more than likely) in any lawsuit. The CVC did not produce a top tier facility, we lost arbitration and refused StanK his $750 Million, one he knew the CVC could not afford. StanK was patient and stabbed a few people in the back (Dean Spanos) to get the Inglewood land. In court, StanK and his deep pockets will be able to fend off an STL lawsuit based on the lease alone. We all know the “NFL guidelines” are loose recommendations, but by no means law. The NFL/StanK could take one of three positions in court. Fight the suit on the premise that the CVC allowed him to go year to year, making the Rams franchise free agents. Pay off their meager $16 million + damages and make them go away. Lead them on to believe they may get a team down the road, so burning bridges (filing suit) with us (the NFL cartel) is a bad idea. I don’t think the NFL gives a rat’s ass about STL. That is why we will be left with nothing but an empty dome, useless STL Rams merch and an empty building in Earth City. Maybe Lindenwood Univ can buy it for a practice facility. 
Please......roger wyoming II wrote:RSA has now spent over $16M on the stadium effort and is running out of money. That's $16M less to take care of the Dome and Convention Center needs. But congrats to all who got paid!
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news ... ml?ana=twt
You are damned if you do, damned if you don't.
If they had done NOTHING, there would be complaints.
They tried, which was a noble effort in my opinion, and lost.
Even at the 11th Hour, I'm glad they tried.
Que sera, sera!
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That's fair.MarkHaversham wrote:You could say basically the same thing about any city on earth. Replacing "NFL team" with whatever other particular fixation someone might have.Mound City wrote: It's not really about "priorities." I'm compelled to ask: what specifically about St. Louis makes this place a priority for you? I could be mistaken, but unless your answer involves things that are truly irreplaceable and personal to you (all my business contacts are here, all my best friends from childhood are here, I want to be closer to my family, I've already put down roots and my kids love their school, etc.), then I predict that those same things can be found, in spades, in a plethora of other nearby cities.
The difference is those cities will probably also have an NFL team.
If I'm still living here next fall/winter, it's gonna be damn depressing and boring for me in St. Louis.
A number of people here will be basking in our unhappiness.DogtownBnR wrote:I hate to say it, but I don’t know if we have a legal leg to stand on. StanK played the game to perfection. I truly believe, when he bumped aside Kahn, to take control of the Rams, he knew back then, he was going to push to LA. By staying silent, he has executed his plan to perfection. He utilized that awful lease provision perfectly. That will be the reason STL would lose (more than likely) in any lawsuit. The CVC did not produce a top tier facility, we lost arbitration and refused StanK his $750 Million, one he knew the CVC could not afford. StanK was patient and stabbed a few people in the back (Dean Spanos) to get the Inglewood land. In court, StanK and his deep pockets will be able to fend off an STL lawsuit based on the lease alone. We all know the “NFL guidelines” are loose recommendations, but by no means law. The NFL/StanK could take one of three positions in court. Fight the suit on the premise that the CVC allowed him to go year to year, making the Rams franchise free agents. Pay off their meager $16 million + damages and make them go away. Lead them on to believe they may get a team down the road, so burning bridges (filing suit) with us (the NFL cartel) is a bad idea. I don’t think the NFL gives a rat’s ass about STL. That is why we will be left with nothing but an empty dome, useless STL Rams merch and an empty building in Earth City. Maybe Lindenwood Univ can buy it for a practice facility.
The Cardinals usually play through October and the St. Louis Blues play downtown in an arena called "Scottrade Center".Mound City wrote:That's fair.
If I'm still living here next fall/winter, it's gonna be damn depressing and boring for me in St. Louis.
Southwest, Amtrak and Megabus all go to Chicago. Go see the Bears.
You could even buy the high-priced NFL package on cable to watch the Rams lose in L.A.
I don't even think it's about STL. It's about M-O-N-E-Y.DogtownBnR wrote:I don’t think the NFL gives a rat’s ass about STL.
The NFL has allowed teams to leave L.A. (2x's), Houston, Baltimore, Cleveland, St. Louis (2x's) etc.
It's about MONEY - not about St. Louis. StanK 'Stache made it about St. Louis in his qwest to take his losing team to L.A. The NFL's job is to make him happy by playing the game - especially if Jerry says so.
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You could join the soon to be favorite St. Louis pastime. Rooting for anyone playing against the Rams.Mound City wrote:MarkHaversham wrote:Mound City wrote: If I'm still living here next fall/winter, it's gonna be damn depressing and boring for me in St. Louis.
Of course if you do Stan K. still gets some of your money...
Yep. A lot of people on this forum are giggling like little school girls on the inside that the Rams are leaving. Not that they had any influence or anything. They are just glad their side won.
There's really no winners here. None.
It's all sad. But those who may think they won, haven't.
Stan is the one who won over the NFL with his lies and gamesmanship.
I will be burning my Rams memorabilia (T-shirts, hoodies, videos, posters, etc.) in my BBQ pit.
There's no reason to hold onto any of it.
Part of me wants to hold onto the SuperBowl Championship videos because at that time Georgia Frontiere was majority owner, but her children are the one's who sold out to 'Stache. I'm burning EVERYTHING as soon as the official announcement is made they are returning to L.A.
It's all sad. But those who may think they won, haven't.
Stan is the one who won over the NFL with his lies and gamesmanship.
I will be burning my Rams memorabilia (T-shirts, hoodies, videos, posters, etc.) in my BBQ pit.
There's no reason to hold onto any of it.
Part of me wants to hold onto the SuperBowl Championship videos because at that time Georgia Frontiere was majority owner, but her children are the one's who sold out to 'Stache. I'm burning EVERYTHING as soon as the official announcement is made they are returning to L.A.
Yup.imthewiz wrote:Yep. A lot of people on this forum are giggling like little school girls on the inside that the Rams are leaving. Not that they had any influence or anything. They are just glad their side won.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/schadenfreude
I'm not necessarily pointing fingers at naysayers and saying show me what you can produce if the NFL is gone. I'm trying to say that it goes both ways. Why can stadium backers be raked over the coals for being irresponsible citizens and be protested against, however if any questioning occurs for other ventures, its vilified? (Note, public transit investment is being ridiculed in ATL right now, so it seems to me that there's always a contingent that are going to oppose anything). If people are going to throw the "there are better ways to spend our money" garbage at us, then there's an accountability there. I don't actually believe that the NFL leaving puts us in a better place then we are without it. I want all the good things for STL that hopefully everyone does. I want good schools, I want crime reduction, and I want young people around the country to see STL as an "actionable plan" for their life. Sadly, just as in our looming most recent failure, I think many people around the country don't see us as on the ascent. How does losing the NFL help that cause? The city coffers are not going to start overflowing for other expenses. The same challenges will remain for responsibly allocated spending, and new challenges will surface. I'd have rather the NFL be along for the ride to provide a style of entertainment that certain cities around the country have to offer.
That said, I'm a lifer. I'm not going anywhere. I came back to STL willingly to start a career that could have taken me anywhere. My family and heart are here (and luckily my wife had already made STL her adopted home before we met and was as equally all in on STL), and this is home for better or worse. If the NFL leaving STL for good proves to be the best for the region long term, then great. But for now, I don't see it that way. I'd love to see a strong response from the region, but won't hold my breath for significant change at any different pace then we are used to seeing.
PS. I won't be burning any memorabilia because I like retro sports stuff too much, especially local. My dad still has Cardinal matchbooks with the schedules from the 80s in his home bar. I've been stockpiling my stuff over the last year just for the collective aspect of things. As much as this hurts, big picture, this stuff has been happening in sports since professional sports came into being. Nearly every city has lost a franchise, and our NFL story, while sad, and frankly makes me want to gnash my teeth right now, is still worth telling and cherishing.
That said, I'm a lifer. I'm not going anywhere. I came back to STL willingly to start a career that could have taken me anywhere. My family and heart are here (and luckily my wife had already made STL her adopted home before we met and was as equally all in on STL), and this is home for better or worse. If the NFL leaving STL for good proves to be the best for the region long term, then great. But for now, I don't see it that way. I'd love to see a strong response from the region, but won't hold my breath for significant change at any different pace then we are used to seeing.
PS. I won't be burning any memorabilia because I like retro sports stuff too much, especially local. My dad still has Cardinal matchbooks with the schedules from the 80s in his home bar. I've been stockpiling my stuff over the last year just for the collective aspect of things. As much as this hurts, big picture, this stuff has been happening in sports since professional sports came into being. Nearly every city has lost a franchise, and our NFL story, while sad, and frankly makes me want to gnash my teeth right now, is still worth telling and cherishing.
Exactlydweebe wrote:Yup.imthewiz wrote:Yep. A lot of people on this forum are giggling like little school girls on the inside that the Rams are leaving. Not that they had any influence or anything. They are just glad their side won.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/schadenfreude
Very well spoken. That's a great way to put it.blzhrpmd2 wrote:I'm not necessarily pointing fingers at naysayers and saying show me what you can produce if the NFL is gone. I'm trying to say that it goes both ways. Why can stadium backers be raked over the coals for being irresponsible citizens and be protested against, however if any questioning occurs for other ventures, its vilified? (Note, public transit investment is being ridiculed in ATL right now, so it seems to me that there's always a contingent that are going to oppose anything). If people are going to throw the "there are better ways to spend our money" garbage at us, then there's an accountability there. I don't actually believe that the NFL leaving puts us in a better place then we are without it. I want all the good things for STL that hopefully everyone does. I want good schools, I want crime reduction, and I want young people around the country to see STL as an "actionable plan" for their life. Sadly, just as in our looming most recent failure, I think many people around the country don't see us as on the ascent. How does losing the NFL help that cause? The city coffers are not going to start overflowing for other expenses. The same challenges will remain for responsibly allocated spending, and new challenges will surface. I'd have rather the NFL be along for the ride to provide a style of entertainment that certain cities around the country have to offer.
That said, I'm a lifer. I'm not going anywhere. I came back to STL willingly to start a career that could have taken me anywhere. My family and heart are here (and luckily my wife had already made STL her adopted home before we met and was as equally all in on STL), and this is home for better or worse. If the NFL leaving STL for good proves to be the best for the region long term, then great. But for now, I don't see it that way. I'd love to see a strong response from the region, but won't hold my breath for significant change at any different pace then we are used to seeing.
PS. I won't be burning any memorabilia because I like retro sports stuff too much, especially local. My dad still has Cardinal matchbooks with the schedules from the 80s in his home bar. I've been stockpiling my stuff over the last year just for the collective aspect of things. As much as this hurts, big picture, this stuff has been happening in sports since professional sports came into being. Nearly every city has lost a franchise, and our NFL story, while sad, and frankly makes me want to gnash my teeth right now, is still worth telling and cherishing.
"I'd have rather the NFL be along for the ride to provide a style of entertainment that certain cities around the country have to offer."
NFL is analogous to the soccer clubs overseas. Very few people would see it as a positive if Manchester United left for another city. There would be riots.
The Rams aren't Manchester United.
The Rams were bad when they came. Improved a little as they settled in STL, but have been bad for 10 years.
Now they are bad as they are leaving. #BYE
They are not Manchester United. MU is REVERED.
But then again, Kroenke doesn't own them.
The Rams were bad when they came. Improved a little as they settled in STL, but have been bad for 10 years.
Now they are bad as they are leaving. #BYE
They are not Manchester United. MU is REVERED.
But then again, Kroenke doesn't own them.
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I'm not convinced the Rams will be chosen for LA, the Carson alliance may hold out. But I do hope they are allowed to leave rather than being forced to come back here unwillingly for another cruel year or two before they move elsewhere. But I'll take no joy in that and take a look at what may be the next move by Task Force if there is one.dweebe wrote:Yup.imthewiz wrote:Yep. A lot of people on this forum are giggling like little school girls on the inside that the Rams are leaving. Not that they had any influence or anything. They are just glad their side won.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/schadenfreude
RSA sued the city on the public vote law, didn't take the time to walk down a few blocks for the committee hearings, is quite secretive and wants a ton more money from the public. I have the right to be a bit angry at these guys.arch city wrote:Please......roger wyoming II wrote:RSA has now spent over $16M on the stadium effort and is running out of money. That's $16M less to take care of the Dome and Convention Center needs. But congrats to all who got paid!
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news ... ml?ana=twt
You are damned if you do, damned if you don't.
If they had done NOTHING, there would be complaints.
They tried, which was a noble effort in my opinion, and lost.
Even at the 11th Hour, I'm glad they tried.
Que sera, sera!