Thank you for the updated contact, I sent Mr. Roper an email, also wrote to express my opposition to the alder, Marlene Davis and to Brooks Goedeker, the Executive Director at Saint Louis Midtown Redevelopment Corporation asking why they are supporting this project.quincunx wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2022Update on who you're supposed to email concerning the QT rezoning-
Jonathan Roper at roperj@stlouis-mo.gov
Date on STL midtown is August 30, 2020 so it is over 2 years old itself.quincunx wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2022Note the date on the endorsement letter from the Prez of the TCA is Aug 20, 2019.
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My own e-mail is on the way. May try to attend, time permitting, but I don't really think I could add any more with verbal commentary.
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I can only comment on my own unique experience, but during my college years I worked at another well known gas station chain and the amount of money the company made on fuel was meagre. All the heavy profits came from inside the store.RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Sep 21, 2022I don't understand why municipalities would want gas stations anymore considering a future where they are obsolete is well within sight.
There was no RFP or solicitation of plans that I know of. SLU owned the land, and sold directly to QuikTrip. Where was the opportunity for a 'better plan'?chriss752 wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2022If a better plan was proposed, which there hasn't been, I might be in support of the alternative. But no one has stepped up beyond the concepts of "what could be". My hope for that is that a developer would've seen the potential and put a proposal in to compete with the QuikTrip plan, but no one did.
SLU is the master developer over this entire swath of real estate, and they tout leadership 'in just land use and urban design'. The onus falls on them to decide 'what could be', as they self-proclaim themselves leaders in such implementation. And they chose a gas station as their best plan, which is embarrassing.
If I'm misunderstanding, please clarify. That's how I'm taking this entire process.
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On one hand, there is value in a neighborhood defining its own best destiny and self-determination.
HOWEVER, on the other, there's no such thing as "neighborhood courtesy", that if you don't live there you don't get a voice. If "aldermanic courtesy" is not a model for proper urban administration, then why the hell would I defer my voice to what some of those people thought more than two years ago?
Fark all that. I have yet to hear an argument cogently stating why QuikTrip would be the best option for that very prominent corner. While I like QuikTrip for gas, I flat-out don't want it there and will make my opinion known.
HOWEVER, on the other, there's no such thing as "neighborhood courtesy", that if you don't live there you don't get a voice. If "aldermanic courtesy" is not a model for proper urban administration, then why the hell would I defer my voice to what some of those people thought more than two years ago?
Fark all that. I have yet to hear an argument cogently stating why QuikTrip would be the best option for that very prominent corner. While I like QuikTrip for gas, I flat-out don't want it there and will make my opinion known.
Email sent as well. If I'm off set early enough tomorrow I'll join the zoom.
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I wrote an email. Do county folks have any pull you think?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You're not misunderstanding the goals of the MRC and how they got messed up a bit. And I know there was no RFP. SLU owned the land and had the ability to issue an RFP but I feel like they didn't because of the ongoing multi-family developments elsewhere in the neighborhood (which is why Iron Hill has been slow to roll out). Even if SLU didn't issue an RFP, I feel that someone could've come forward with a proposal and didn't. QT came in and won by default, but that doesn't mean this can't be stopped.bwcrow1s wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2022There was no RFP or solicitation of plans that I know of. SLU owned the land, and sold directly to QuikTrip. Where was the opportunity for a 'better plan'?chriss752 wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2022If a better plan was proposed, which there hasn't been, I might be in support of the alternative. But no one has stepped up beyond the concepts of "what could be". My hope for that is that a developer would've seen the potential and put a proposal in to compete with the QuikTrip plan, but no one did.
SLU is the master developer over this entire swath of real estate, and they tout leadership 'in just land use and urban design'. The onus falls on them to decide 'what could be', as they self-proclaim themselves leaders in such implementation. And they chose a gas station as their best plan, which is embarrassing.
If I'm misunderstanding, please clarify. That's how I'm taking this entire process.
Look at 1500 South Grand. SSM intended to demolish it. We all stepped in and got them to sell it to KDG who then sold it to BallastCRE and now it's being redeveloped into apartments and retail space. From doom and gloom to joy.
Point being: It ain't over till it's over. The same can apply here if someone stages an intervention if and when the Planning Commission denies the QT. Someone should be waiting in the wings with a plan of similar scale, just tweaked, to Dylan Kennedy's plan shared in Entry 1 on NextSTL. I have a feeling this would yield a positive outcome and that QT would sell at that point.
Despite my comments and me not living in the City, I did write in a letter explaining my stance and hopes for the parcel if this is declined.
Precisely the issue with SLU. They should have never 'won by default' if SLU is a leader in 'just land use and urban design'. They basically betrayed their own brand by even selling it to QT and ignoring the community development side of this. They appear to have not even actively pushed to have anything done here. Toothless marketing, is all it is. And tax-free. How utterly fubar'd this all is.chriss752 wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2022You're not misunderstanding the goals of the MRC and how they got messed up a bit. And I know there was no RFP. SLU owned the land and had the ability to issue an RFP but I feel like they didn't because of the ongoing multi-family developments elsewhere in the neighborhood (which is why Iron Hill has been slow to roll out). Even if SLU didn't issue an RFP, I feel that someone could've come forward with a proposal and didn't. QT came in and won by default, but that doesn't mean this can't be stopped.bwcrow1s wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2022There was no RFP or solicitation of plans that I know of. SLU owned the land, and sold directly to QuikTrip. Where was the opportunity for a 'better plan'?chriss752 wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2022If a better plan was proposed, which there hasn't been, I might be in support of the alternative. But no one has stepped up beyond the concepts of "what could be". My hope for that is that a developer would've seen the potential and put a proposal in to compete with the QuikTrip plan, but no one did.
SLU is the master developer over this entire swath of real estate, and they tout leadership 'in just land use and urban design'. The onus falls on them to decide 'what could be', as they self-proclaim themselves leaders in such implementation. And they chose a gas station as their best plan, which is embarrassing.
If I'm misunderstanding, please clarify. That's how I'm taking this entire process.
Look at 1500 South Grand. SSM intended to demolish it. We all stepped in and got them to sell it to KDG who then sold it to BallastCRE and now it's being redeveloped into apartments and retail space. From doom and gloom to joy.
Point being: It ain't over till it's over. The same can apply here if someone stages an intervention if and when the Planning Commission denies the QT. Someone should be waiting in the wings with a plan of similar scale, just tweaked, to Dylan Kennedy's plan shared in Entry 1 on NextSTL. I have a feeling this would yield a positive outcome and that QT would sell at that point.
Despite my comments and me not living in the City, I did write in a letter explaining my stance and hopes for the parcel if this is declined.
This is easy pickins for PPG. I appreciate your optimism regarding 1500 Grand, Desloge, etc. SLU just can't help getting in its own way. And this city needs to stop making bargains for wide redevelopment swaths (especially with SLU tax free). There's too large of margin for abuse.
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Sent my email too. Not sure what argument will make them reconsider if any but I brought up that it would make Grand ave more hostile to pedestrians, and that gas stations increase pollution, often increase crime, and are very difficult to reuse if closed. Which is almost likely considering how QuickTrip is obviously just trying to saturate the market locally to drive out competitors.quincunx wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2022Note they want written comments by 5pm TODAY.
Jonathan Roper at roperj@stlouis-mo.gov
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Email sent, with my argument delineated across multiple points.
Get yours in ASAP; we've got an hour to do so. Doesn't hurt to send a quick note to: roperj@stlouis-mo.gov
Get yours in ASAP; we've got an hour to do so. Doesn't hurt to send a quick note to: roperj@stlouis-mo.gov
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I sent my e-mail yesterday.
Does anybody think they're getting many letters of support?
Does anybody think they're getting many letters of support?
Thanks to all who wrote in! I'll see some of you tomorrow at the meeting.
I'm told written comments were 1 for and 41 against!
I hear will be a rare occasion where the project is being presented tomorrow with a staff recommendation to deny. Yaay for that fwiw.
Indeed staff recommends denial of the zoning change. Check out the discussion in the item materials. They cite the Midtown plan much as I did.
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... -REZ-2.pdf
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... -REZ-2.pdf
Great news. Laughable, and shocking (or not, with the general apathetic nature of our city planners and 353 holders) how much 'support' this has, though.
I live two blocks from one of these. I can't imagine having one literally in my side yard.
I live two blocks from one of these. I can't imagine having one literally in my side yard.
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If the zoning change is denied what are the chances they would just build without the zoned lot in question? Considering it's a pretty small portion of the building area, they could probably still make it work. Are there any other roadblocks along the way? Or was it just the rezoning?
From what I understand (please correct me/elaborate if you know more!), the zoning change was just one of the approvals they needed. I think they also needed approval for demolition of the house from the preservation board and a different approval for vacating Mcree.
They may be able to build a smaller gas station on just the parking lot site between Mcree and Lafayette along Grand but idk if QT is willing to build anything but a cookie cutter big gas station.
They may be able to build a smaller gas station on just the parking lot site between Mcree and Lafayette along Grand but idk if QT is willing to build anything but a cookie cutter big gas station.
"Even if this zoning change is endorsed by the Planning Commission there are many more steps and opportunities to express opposition and block this mistake. The zoning change requires a board bill. The two-family is not within the Midtown Redevelopment Corporation Chapter 353 area, so the demolition (a demo permit application was submitted Dec 9, 2021) would be considered by the Cultural Resources Office and, presuming it denied, if appealed, the Preservation Board would consider it. The vacation of McRee Ave requires a board bill. QT plans to seek a CID to pay for moving the highway onramp to the east so that shoppers would py for it (note the CID sales tax wouldn’t apply to gas). A CID requires a board bill. If any zoning variances are required, the Board of Adjustment would consider them. This is but the first battle to prevent a poor low-productivity land use here in a city desperate for residents, tax base, and economic activity, not more wealth-shredding gas stations, and protect surroundings from blight, pollution, carcinogens, crime, car traffic, crashes and noise."GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Dec 14, 2022If the zoning change is denied what are the chances they would just build without the zoned lot in question? Considering it's a pretty small portion of the building area, they could probably still make it work. Are there any other roadblocks along the way? Or was it just the rezoning?
https://nextstl.com/2022/12/grand-and-l ... ommission/