Isn't that mostly park/conservation area?TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Dec 19, 2024The ArcGIS doesn't confirm that swath along 44, but otherwise a really interesting idea, especially with the southern and northern broad swaths actually adjacent or near adjacent.
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This is really cool. Do you know what the total land area is of the gray areas? It would be interesting to know what the population density is.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Dec 19, 2024STL city and gray areas. Population 630,000
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This does seem to be something that has a strong chance of picking up steam in the coming years. Picture some of the political barriers are starting to fall related to finances, disparities between City/County, and boomer resistance being less of a factor as they fade in relevence and replaced with younger generations who may not have some of the biases that inhibit this.
One factor that could push this along is state government threatening to step in more. Since that could force a solution since the City and County officials and population may prefer to do it on own terms than have it dictated by Jefferson City.
One factor that could push this along is state government threatening to step in more. Since that could force a solution since the City and County officials and population may prefer to do it on own terms than have it dictated by Jefferson City.
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I heard exactly the same argument when I moved here in 1975. That is, when the current old people move on, us younger generation can make the merger happen. No. The same parochial attitudes that have existed since 1876 will show up for you as it did for us. Unless a super-credible leader emerges who can make the argument. And those have never been in shorter supply for our region. Good luck.
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I always get a kick out of people saying that the "next generation" will be different. Alas, time has a way of changing people.
As Winston Churchill said: "If you're not a liberal at 20, you've got no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you've got no brain".
A huge generalization, of course, but you get the idea.
As Winston Churchill said: "If you're not a liberal at 20, you've got no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you've got no brain".
A huge generalization, of course, but you get the idea.
A Community Conversation – One St. Louis
The second in a series of meetings sponsored by State Rep. Ian Mackey on possible city-county merger -- will be held this Friday, March 14, 4:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m., at the Millennium Student Center -Student Government Chamber, University of Missouri-St. Louis, 17 Arnold B. Grobman Drive, St. Louis, MO 63121.
The second in a series of meetings sponsored by State Rep. Ian Mackey on possible city-county merger -- will be held this Friday, March 14, 4:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m., at the Millennium Student Center -Student Government Chamber, University of Missouri-St. Louis, 17 Arnold B. Grobman Drive, St. Louis, MO 63121.
Introduced by Rep Mackey
HB 456 would require munis with less the 5000 residents in Stl County to disband their police department within 5 years
https://house.mo.gov/Bill.aspx?bill=HB4 ... 025&code=R
HJR 27 - Proposes a constitutional amendment relating to the consolidation of St. Louis County and St. Louis City
https://house.mo.gov/Bill.aspx?bill=HJR ... 025&code=R
^The Metropolitan City plan
Neither has progressed in MOLeg
HB 456 would require munis with less the 5000 residents in Stl County to disband their police department within 5 years
https://house.mo.gov/Bill.aspx?bill=HB4 ... 025&code=R
HJR 27 - Proposes a constitutional amendment relating to the consolidation of St. Louis County and St. Louis City
https://house.mo.gov/Bill.aspx?bill=HJR ... 025&code=R
^The Metropolitan City plan
Neither has progressed in MOLeg
The Stop the City-County Merger FB page is still active. Sad.
Yeesh. I just went to read. Supports my opinion that many people don’t have the emotional intelligence to vote, drive, or participate in social media.quincunx wrote:The Stop the City-County Merger FB page is still active. Sad.
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Since the state wants to get involved with everything here, I hope they force the issue and get this done sooner rather than later. The city and county don’t seem to be making any progress on their own. Just fighting with each other.
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If there were anything I would ever be okay with the state of Missouri imposing over the city of St. Louis, it's that.
This is my attempt at what I think a decent City-County merger could look like. My ideal is to retain municipal governments, unlike a county merger like Indianapolis, Louisville, or Nashville. What I came up with was 5 different municipalities in my reimagined St. Louis County.
Red- St. Louis: 661k people, ~D+58, 47% white, 43% black, 4.7% Asian, 4% Hispanic, 1.8% other.
Blue- Florissant: 141.3k, ~D+35, 47% white, 45% black, 3.7% Hispanic, 2% Asian, 2.2% other.
Green- Oakville: 152.8k, ~R+5, 89% white, 3.2% Asian, 2.6% black, 2.3% Hispanic, 1.8% other.
Light blue- Chesterfield: 189.9k, ~R+13, 83.5% white, 8.4% Asian, 3% black, 2.8% Hispanic, 1.6% other.
Orange: Kirkwood: 160.6k, ~D+11, 75.7% white, 9.7% Asian, 9% black, 3.6% Hispanic, 1.5% other
Under this new border, St. Louis' density would be ~4.1k/sq mi, as the city would be ~160 square miles.
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Red- St. Louis: 661k people, ~D+58, 47% white, 43% black, 4.7% Asian, 4% Hispanic, 1.8% other.
Blue- Florissant: 141.3k, ~D+35, 47% white, 45% black, 3.7% Hispanic, 2% Asian, 2.2% other.
Green- Oakville: 152.8k, ~R+5, 89% white, 3.2% Asian, 2.6% black, 2.3% Hispanic, 1.8% other.
Light blue- Chesterfield: 189.9k, ~R+13, 83.5% white, 8.4% Asian, 3% black, 2.8% Hispanic, 1.6% other.
Orange: Kirkwood: 160.6k, ~D+11, 75.7% white, 9.7% Asian, 9% black, 3.6% Hispanic, 1.5% other
Under this new border, St. Louis' density would be ~4.1k/sq mi, as the city would be ~160 square miles.
149 years ago
Stl Mag - St. Louis’ Great Divorce: A complete history of the city and county separation and attempts to get back together
https://www.stlmag.com/news/politics/st ... -together/
Stl Mag - St. Louis’ Great Divorce: A complete history of the city and county separation and attempts to get back together
https://www.stlmag.com/news/politics/st ... -together/
Maybe we can get some momentum around 150 years? (I know it’s not happening but a man can dream).quincunx wrote: ↑Aug 23, 2025149 years ago
Stl Mag - St. Louis’ Great Divorce: A complete history of the city and county separation and attempts to get back together
https://www.stlmag.com/news/politics/st ... -together/
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I think we need a symbol we could put on T-shirts or buttons that show personal support for merging governments in the metro area.
Something politicians will see and cannot ignore to save their own parochial jobs. And something the media will notice and confront politicians about.
I suggest: SAINTLOUIS. No space. Or, to make it more clear, add the words posted by JaneJacobsGhost in an earlier post: SAINTLOUIS. MERGE OR DIE.
Just as "Join or Die" was used by the founding father Benjamin Franklin, "merge or die" is not a threat. It is a prediction.
Something politicians will see and cannot ignore to save their own parochial jobs. And something the media will notice and confront politicians about.
I suggest: SAINTLOUIS. No space. Or, to make it more clear, add the words posted by JaneJacobsGhost in an earlier post: SAINTLOUIS. MERGE OR DIE.
Just as "Join or Die" was used by the founding father Benjamin Franklin, "merge or die" is not a threat. It is a prediction.
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Given that some yokel just proposed decoupling KC from Jackson, I don't think we can rely on our state legislature to push this. We need our elites and business leaders to tell the proletariat that this is needed in small, definitive words.
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I like what Jarrad Holst proposed. Instead of a massive Better Together style merger that scared everyone to death as change tends to do here (we don't do big change), Jarrod proposes a simple ballot measure that merges in name only at first. The City rejoins the County in name, but no institutions merge . And it includes the creation of a committee that looks for things that can merge where it makes sense, similar to the merger of MSD. Not so scary. I suppose it could even include language that would limit all mergers in some areas for X years to further ease minds. In Oklahoma City, they voted for a 5-year plan to revitalize downtown after the Murrah building bombing with a 5-years-only sales tax. At the end of 5 years, trust in the plan leaders and results convinced people to renew for another 5 years, including education this time. Here is the SLBJ interview with Jarrad podcast from January 8th if you haven't heard it yet. Very good.
How does that work? It's easy to think up a magic trick.
It was a Board of Freeholders. We would have had that, but Mayor Jones didn't nominate any members.And it includes the creation of a committee that looks for things that can merge where it makes sense, similar to the merger of MSD.
We need to take it out of the hands of politicians. They all believe the worst thing that could happen to America would be for them to not be re-elected.quincunx wrote: ↑6:11 PM - Jan 19How does that work? It's easy to think up a magic trick.
It was a Board of Freeholders. We would have had that, but Mayor Jones didn't nominate any members.And it includes the creation of a committee that looks for things that can merge where it makes sense, similar to the merger of MSD.
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Jarrad is an idiot. There is no in name only merger. City is either part of the county or it isn’t. You can’t have a government that functions as a county keeping its county functions while sitting in another county
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Thank you DB, I was scurrying to write a very similar post. If you see Jarrad’s stuff on LinkedIn it’s brutal, poorly backed high level hand waving.
How do you do that? State initiative petition? It takes an initiative petition to start a Board of Freeholders, but politicians pick the members. People in munis can put on the ballot disincorporation via petition.gary kreie wrote: ↑10:40 PM - Jan 19We need to take it out of the hands of politicians. They all believe the worst thing that could happen to America would be for them to not be re-elected.quincunx wrote: ↑6:11 PM - Jan 19How does that work? It's easy to think up a magic trick.
It was a Board of Freeholders. We would have had that, but Mayor Jones didn't nominate any members.And it includes the creation of a committee that looks for things that can merge where it makes sense, similar to the merger of MSD.