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PostApr 24, 2024#1526

I feel pretty optimistic about St. Louis most of the time, but I'm pretty pessimistic about this getting done in the next decade or two. 

It almost feels like Better Together is going to end up killing the topic for a generation.   

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PostApr 24, 2024#1527

^^Couldn't agree more!

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PostNov 27, 2024#1528

Stl PR - Missouri state Rep.-elect Nick Kimble wants St. Louis city and county to collaborate

https://www.stlpr.org/podcast/political ... ollaborate

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PostNov 28, 2024#1529

I am in favor of City-County collaboration, but jeez what a man without convictions. with democrats like these who needs republicans...

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PostDec 11, 2024#1530

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... ounty.html

I do not have access, but a State lawmaker is attempting revive the merger discussion. Anyone hear about this? Is this Nick Kimble, same news from last month?

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PostDec 11, 2024#1531

A Democratic state representative on Tuesday pre-filed legislation to put a constitutional amendment before voters merging the city of St. Louis and St. Louis County.
The move, by Ian Mackey, D-Richmond Heights, could reignite debate around the idea in the 2025 legislative session after it was dropped in 2019 as Better Together's plan for a "metropolitan city" collapsed.

Mackey's resolution, which would take effect in August 2025, closely mirrors the language of Better Together's plan, with a "metropolitan council" of 33 legislators, for example. It envisions a statewide election on the amendment in November 2026 or at a special election.



State Rep. Ian Mackey, D-Richmond Heights
Tim Bommel, House Communications
Mackey said in an interview that the language mirrors the Better Together amendment, and is meant to "restart the conversation."
He said he supported that plan, and thinks something similar is needed now.
"What are we doing sitting around talking about problems we've had longer than I've been alive?" Mackey said. "It's a better solution than what we have going on right now."
Mackey said he talks to area juniors and seniors in high school, and that "they all" eventually plan to leave the region.

Like many previous merger proponents, he cited Indianapolis as an example of an area that underwent a merger and is now on the rise.
And he said the current government landscape creates "fiefdoms," with too much competition for jobs locally. It also prevents the area from crafting a cohesive plan, Mackey contended.
The likely next House speaker, Republican Jon Patterson of Lee's Summit, didn't immediately respond to a request for comment. The next governor, Republican Mike Kehoe, has advocated for a more aggressive approach to St. Louis, advocating a state takeover of city police, but his views on a more sweeping plan weren't immediately clear. He didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.
With Republican supermajorities in the state House and Senate, a plan from a Democrat would seem unlikely to gain traction. Jefferson City observers said that were a city-county merger to be a priority of Republican leaders, they would have one of their own carry such a plan.
Mackey said he has filed bills for next year that he will prioritize more than the merger plan, but that he would still seek to find Republicans who will support it, or even sponsor it.

One such Mackey bill would require certain small police departments to disband, something he said could help with staffing issues in the city of St. Louis' police department, by eliminating some competition.
After the Better Together plan was withdrawn following the federal indictment of then-St. Louis County Executive Steve Stenger on corruption charges, the Board of Freeholders had been viewed as another way to continue discussions around some type of merger effort. The freeholders would be tasked with drafting a government restructuring plan to submit to voters.
The process required the leaders of St. Louis County, the city of St. Louis' mayor and Missouri's governor to gain approval of a slate of members to the Freeholders board. St. Louis County Executive Sam Page and Gov. Mike Parson each gained approval for their board nominees, but the process stalled when the Board of Alderman failed to confirm former Mayor Lyda Krewson's slate. Pat Kelly, executive director of the Municipal League of Metro St. Louis, said Lewis Reed, the board president at the time, didn't let the proposal get out of a committee. Reed resigned his post in 2022 after also being indicted on federal corruption charges.

Kelly, executive director of the Municipal League of Metro St. Louis, has said he thinks that signatures needed to launch the board would now have to be gathered again, a process that previously cost the organization $100,000. Jared Boyd, chief of staff to St. Louis Mayor Tishaura Jones, has cited "a legal theory" that, since the Board of Freeholders process never actually started after the prior signature-gathering effort, the process would not have to start over.
Boyd in 2022 indicated that process could move forward, but it never has.
A Jones spokesperson didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.
A Page spokesman, Doug Moore, said in an email that "we work closely with the city. We see no need to consolidate when strong partnerships are already in place."
Efforts to change the trajectory of St. Louis come as it continues to lose population, even as economic and jobs growth remain steady. The region recently fell to the 23rd biggest in the U.S. by population, continuing a long slide. The city and county are among the parts of the region losing population.

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PostDec 11, 2024#1532

Page's comments sum it up. These "leaders" want to continue to insanity that has held our region back for decades and decades. We will never get ahead until smart & forward-thinking people take leadership roles in the region. Right now, that is not the case. 

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PostDec 11, 2024#1533

DogtownBnR wrote:
Dec 11, 2024
Page's comments sum it up. These "leaders" want to continue to insanity that has held our region back for decades and decades. We will never get ahead until smart & forward-thinking people take leadership roles in the region. Right now, that is not the case. 
Forced merger of county and city is the only issue that I think the state should impose on St. Louis. If they want to take over the police department, how about just consolidate everything and start from scratch. The current regional government structure makes doing anything good for the region damn near impossible. 

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PostDec 11, 2024#1534

I don’t think Page’s comments are really any type of indication. He was asked to respond to something that has no detail and the author of the legislation admitted its intended to start the conversation.

As the article points out, Republicans control everything. Unless there is legislation from that half… none of this matters.

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PostDec 11, 2024#1535

I support this regardless, but I think the realistic nature of this is at least ten years off. Only when the county starts to heavily lose population will this be taken more seriously than a token conversation.

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PostDec 12, 2024#1536

I like that it is being brought forward again. I am okay with this starting at the state level. Our region needs it badly. His proposal is a full merger and not just incorporation of the city into the county. I used to lean towards the city incorporating into the county instead of a full merger but have slowly moved towards a full merger as annexation would not likely be easy (and the city needs some instant benefit from the plan). The full merger would just completely change the national perception of St. Louis in a few short years - we would all of a sudden not show up on crime lists and be a top 10 population city (the general public really doesnt seem it will ever understand how city limits affects things). I used to favor the incorporation path because of the expensive infrastructure in the county, but honestly, the tax base in west county probably would make up for it and the county would slowly densify under a full merger because of the momentum we could get in a more cohesive plan to business, transportation, etc.

I would think Republicans on the “government efficiency” kick would want this. And as a Democrat, I even think our region has too many governments, departments, and bureacracy. We have to make it easier and cheaper for business, procuring public funding, public services. There are so many short term and long term benefits of a merger

I also believe it would pass a statewide vote - I don’t really see why people outside of the StL region would perceive it as a bad thing. People inside the region I’m sure will feel more strongly on both sides but I believe that polling before was showing a merger as favorable.

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PostDec 12, 2024#1537

I’m still in the city comes into the county first. Then you start combining municipalities. Say start with any under 10k have to merge into ones above 10k. That would get us to 20ish. Which would be a good start. Then go from there.

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PostDec 12, 2024#1538

Not really sure why this discussion always has to start with the ending of all municipalities. That is not ever going to happen. Chesterfield, Ladue, Kirkwood, etc. are not looking to give up their fiefdoms & that is completely fine. The "model merged cities" of Nashville & Indy have lots of burbs. Who cares! I want us to focus on re-entry into the County. Every time a proposal like Better Together comes out, it will be destroyed in the media & make the effort seem like a joke. WAY too ambitious!
The best we can hope for is STL City being a muni & slowly consolidating services & cooperating with the County like a Kirkwood does. I do not see a full consolidation ever working here after so many muni's have operated independently for so long. I would like to see the City fully dissolved with an additional seat(s) on the County Counsel, but that is a long ways away. The City may be financially healthy now, but the perception of the City is way worse than even 10 years ago from the perspective of County residents. The financial windfall will run out at some point. That is where population & economic growth have to fill that void. Those are not a guarantee in the current climate. 

It is a much tougher sell, even though most reasonable-minded folks admit what we are doing is not working. It would seem to me that reasonable heads prevail & we find a way to move the 'City into the County effort' ahead then work towards more cooperation, vs. continuing down the road to irrelevance. It angers me greatly that local politicians continue to put their own personal political advancement ahead of saving our region from falling deeper into irrelevance. When will young, smart leaders step up to push for change?!

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PostDec 12, 2024#1539

jshank83 wrote:
Dec 12, 2024
I’m still in the city comes into the county first. Then you start combining municipalities. Say start with any under 10k have to merge into ones above 10k. That would get us to 20ish. Which would be a good start. Then go from there.
This. 

I think any connection to the Better Together plan will be instantly rejected. I cringed when I saw the bill's sponsor use that term, and I suspect the vast majority of voters would feel the same. 

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PostDec 12, 2024#1540

DogtownBnR wrote:
Dec 12, 2024
Not really sure why this discussion always has to start with the ending of all municipalities. That is not ever going to happen. Chesterfield, Ladue, Kirkwood, etc. are not looking to give up their fiefdoms & that is completely fine. The "model merged cities" of Nashville & Indy have lots of burbs. Who cares! I want us to focus on re-entry into the County. Every time a proposal like Better Together comes out, it will be destroyed in the media & make the effort seem like a joke. WAY too ambitious!
The best we can hope for is STL City being a muni & slowly consolidating services & cooperating with the County like a Kirkwood does. I do not see a full consolidation ever working here after so many muni's have operated independently for so long. I would like to see the City fully dissolved with an additional seat(s) on the County Counsel, but that is a long ways away. The City may be financially healthy now, but the perception of the City is way worse than even 10 years ago from the perspective of County residents. The financial windfall will run out at some point. That is where population & economic growth have to fill that void. Those are not a guarantee in the current climate. 

It is a much tougher sell, even though most reasonable-minded folks admit what we are doing is not working. It would seem to me that reasonable heads prevail & we find a way to move the 'City into the County effort' ahead then work towards more cooperation, vs. continuing down the road to irrelevance. It angers me greatly that local politicians continue to put their own personal political advancement ahead of saving our region from falling deeper into irrelevance. When will young, smart leaders step up to push for change?!
Correct. This is far too contentious of an issue to attempt to be overly drastic on and has been a proven failure of an approach in the not too distant past. A measured approach as you suggested is the way forward. 

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PostDec 12, 2024#1541

City shouldn’t be dissolved and shouldn’t enter this conversation needing to beg. Again, maybe those in the County don’t want to accept this yet, but I would MUCH rather be the City right now.

Maybe the County should prove to the City that there is benefit of being a muni in the County. I don’t see any. Maybe the County should focus on the actual source of government waste in the region, 80+ munis.

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PostDec 12, 2024#1542

^ I am a City guy, been for my entire life. I love the City, but BIG change is needed. The City as we sit is not the way forward. The way our region is governed is not the way forward. 

Keep in mind... The City's not going to have this budget windfall forever. It will go away & if the City is not growing population & economic development, it'll be in trouble down the road. This windfall came from once in a lifetime funds, Rams, Covid, etc. not from this huge economic/population boom or some normal situation. NO trends would lead me to believe we can grow population in the City-proper any time soon. In fact, I see the population continuing to dwindle in the coming years, in turn dwindling our tax base. Say what you want, but that mindset is the same one that got us into this mess. There needs to be a unified front or this region is toast. 

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PostDec 12, 2024#1543

But what about the County’s 21st century performance convinces you that the County has any right to tell the City what is right/wrong?

Terrible housing development. No population growth. Budget deficits to the point where reserves are almost empty. Pockets of crime and gun violence that rival even the worst parts of the City. A county executive in jail. Mayors of 500 people villages squabbling over nickels and dimes. School districts also losing students.

As mentioned elsewhere, the county was good because it had cheap suburban land to develop. The second that dried up, everything stalled. If St. Louis County was the leader the City needed, it’d know how to be good when things got tough.

From what I’m seeing, St. Louis County leaders and government seem no more qualified to lead the region than those in the City.

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PostDec 12, 2024#1544

addxb2 wrote:But what about the County’s 21st century performance convinces you that the County has any right to tell the City what is right/wrong?

Terrible housing development. No population growth. Budget deficits to the point where reserves are almost empty. Pockets of crime and gun violence that rival even the worst parts of the City. A county executive in jail. Mayors of 500 people villages squabbling over nickels and dimes. School districts also losing students.

As mentioned elsewhere, the county was good because it had cheap suburban land to develop. The second that dried up, everything stalled. If St. Louis County was the leader the City needed, it’d know how to be good when things got tough.

From what I’m seeing, St. Louis County leaders and government seem no more qualified to lead the region than those in the City.
I don’t disagree with your callouts on the flaws in the County vs the City, but isn’t this the same argument everyone outside the City made through the 20th Century to prevent reunification?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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PostDec 12, 2024#1545

Yes! I am just supporting my point that the city shouldn’t be forced into a position of submission just because those in the County don’t yet accept the writing on the wall.

They would be better together, but it’s not going to happen (or at least in my opinion should not happen) without sacrifices by both.

For example, the city would lose millions in fed dollars by losing its County status. City residents would have less control over streets, utilities, parks, libraries. The impact on the county would be minimal.

PostDec 12, 2024#1546

I just find it odd that it’s determined inconceivable for Kirkwood and Chesterfield to give up control but the greatest City in the region is expected to just shrug its shoulders and rollover.

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PostDec 12, 2024#1547

My comments were not meant to say the City should rollover. I agree that both are declining. My only point is SOMETHING MAJOR has to be done and doing more of the same should not be an option. The City government as it sits today is antiquated and way too large for a city of 275K and dwindling. The City may have upside for now, but that is not sustainable as long as things stay on the same path. Same with the County. The County, at this time, has a more stable population that is much bigger, but the City has all of the amenities that make the region great. We are in a bind as a region and it shouldn't be this complicated, but it is unfortunately.

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PostDec 12, 2024#1548

^^ i think the point is that municipal fortunes ebb and flow. let's get it done now instead of waiting until everyone tanks.

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PostDec 12, 2024#1549

Governments sign off on big mergers that eliminate dual roles (and competition) and jobs are lost, potential impact on consumer competition.  Governments fight against consolidation and spread fear to non educated and insist their way of life is at stake.  There is a more effective use of our tax dollars with some level of consolidation and cooperation.  How is this communicated to those who don't want to take time to educate themselves, and how to you overpower the fear of these muni's that do not want to give up power / their jobs?

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PostDec 16, 2024#1550

I absolutely support the entry of STL City into STL County above all else. 
I'd also support about any form of unification, whether ideal or not, no matter what. The stakes are too high to be complacent or waiting on perfection. 
Tell the outstate GOP that STL unification would help end bureaucracy. That's how you sell them on this. Then go into how it would further business growth and rebuild the central business district of the state's largest metro area. They'd absolutely love that. 
I'd support a statewide vote in Nov 2026 if nothing's accomplished beforehand. 
Unless and until another solution comes along, we all should support Rep. Mackey's resolution, loudly and with unison. 

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