urbanSTL

jshank83 wrote:

SB in BH wrote: ↑

8:06 PM - Feb 09

How about realistic things that could conceivably happen without first replacing half the voting population and two-thirds of the Missouri General Assembly?

• City reenters the county as its largest municipality, current city/county offices dissolved and their duties reassigned to the appropriate muni or county bureau. 
• All current StlCo munis with fewer than 5k population are dissolved, now "unincorporated." 
• Redrawing of county council districts based on geographic population distribution, each seat containing pieces of incorporated and muni territory.
• 10-year moratorium on tax-subsidized, inter-muni migration, i.e., Chesterfield can't poach businesses from DT w/ tax schemes.  
• Airport becomes a county asset, profits accrue to a county council district honey pot, similar to the ward capitol dollars in the City.
• School districts remain untouched.

All complete fantasy, except the last one. But I also enjoy fantasizing about what I'd do if won the lottery. You can't win if you don't play.

I’d alter 2 things

Under 5k don’t go to unincorporated. They have to be absorbed by a city that is already above 5k.

The airport puts most its profits back into the airport (debt payoff or back to the airlines) so there really aren’t any “profits”. There is the old loophole where the city can take a little out but it should be closed anyway.

Edit: I’d change your first one also. As long as the city is still a city, even if it enters the county, it should have city offices.

Probably means the county level offices we spend tens of millions on. Sheriff, treasurer, prosecutor, comptroller, courts, etc.

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quincunx wrote: ↑

1:43 AM - Feb 10

What airport profits?
stl County is already a big winner from the airport through sales taxes.

I know "profits" is the wrong word. I'll confess my ignorance on the details of airport governance. What I know is that it's a City asset physically located in the county and there's a host of powerful people and entities (many discussed regularly on these boards) whowant to change that relationship for various reasons. I assumed its because its provides revenue for the City that "they" think should accrue elsewhere (the county? their businesses?)

I suggest making it a county asset and distributing whatever unobligated surpluses it generates evenly across council districts, so that everyone has a stake in its success.

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

10:59 PM - Feb 10

Most of the money the airport generates is supposed to go back into the airport.  

The people without control of the airport want control - or at least a say.  

Most of the money that the airport generates goes back to the airport. Once it’s operations are paid for, the city is grandfathered in to receive up to $5m a year

I assume a reentering as a muni take a vote of the City & County residents correct? 

Would remaining separate, but consolidating services such as policing, etc. require a vote? 

Could Kehoe be working behind the scenes to make this happen. I thought I had heard him say this is the way of the future, in past interviews. 

I believe the consolidation of the health depts. going through without a vote. I'd guess the consolidation of services over time makes a full merger more likely. Entering as a muni makes it almost a guarantee. 

What depts. would be dissolved under a merger scenario? City water? City Trash? Would a private company even want to bid for the contracts on these? If I private company took over water, who would pay for the aging & failing infrastructure? I assume the City is still on the hook for that. 

Putting the city in the county via a Board of Freeholders proposal would take a vote in the city and county. It would need a majority in each to pass.

Hard to say on the police. The city could contract for polling services form the county effecting a merger, though no telling with the state control of the SLMPD now whether the city is allowed to do that. If done via a Board of Freeholders proposal, I think that would up end the state's law since the Board of F operates under the constitution, though probably a legal battle would ensue as to whether the new merged PD is the SLMPD that the state law says the state has control over.

I would expect under  reentry that just puts the city into the county, water, streets, and trash would remain the city's responsibility. It could chose to privatize, just like it can now. Water customers are on the hook to maintain water infrastructure as always, it's just with a private company they get to pay for a private company's profits too.

I think the city entering the county is a big deal for the region and probably the closest we'll get to a merger. Also, if the city enters the county I think we have a much better chance of getting a N-S Metrolink built, because it doesnt become a '"city" project it becomes a "county" project and the match is already there.

Here is how this has to happen. 

First, Governor Kehoe needs to propose the City be reintroduced to St. Louis County as a municipality. He needs to deliver to St. Louis County Council and City BoA a complete but preliminary governance framework. The majority (75%) of both government representatives need to agree and agree to be publicly positive. 
Second, Governor Kehoe, Mayor Spencer, and County Executive need to make a unified announcement in front of the Arch. The messaging should acknowledge the failures of Better Together as too much for too little. It needs to avoid the term merger and focus instead on being the first logical step of a larger conversation.
Third, Greater STL Inc and the regions largest employers need to sponsor a months long Greater STL Fair which should be structured as a moving fair/carnival with engagement opportunities. It needs to build excitement and appreciation. 

If I remember correctly, adding the City to the County, would require adding 2 seats to the County Council for a total of 9 members.  I don't think this would have any impact on the City's 14 alderman structure, as other municipalities in the County have their own alderman.  I'm sure DB can confirm all of this.    

addxb2 wrote: ↑

5:42 PM - Mar 12

Here is how this has to happen. 

First, Governor Kehoe needs to propose the City be reintroduced to St. Louis County as a municipality. He needs to deliver to St. Louis County Council and City BoA a complete but preliminary governance framework. The majority (75%) of both government representatives need to agree and agree to be publicly positive. 
Second, Governor Kehoe, Mayor Spencer, and County Executive need to make a unified announcement in front of the Arch. The messaging should acknowledge the failures of Better Together as too much for too little. It needs to avoid the term merger and focus instead on being the first logical step of a larger conversation.
Third, Greater STL Inc and the regions largest employers need to sponsor a months long Greater STL Fair which should be structured as a moving fair/carnival with engagement opportunities. It needs to build excitement and appreciation. 

Black leaders and electeds need to be up front too.

Moving county offices downtown could be huge. Otherwise this seems very pie in the sky right now. A proposal from an unpopular official not running for re-election. The next county executive's opinion is what really matters.

It is pretty funny though that part of his argument is that the county needs the city's taxes to bail them out. Almost like some people have been saying that for years.

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Regarding city reentry into the county, could this happen via a statewide vote to amend the state constitution like Better Together called for? Or perhaps even just a vote of the state legislature to amend the constitution to abolish the Board of Freeholders and St. Louis City’s independent status? I always thought eventual endgame might be for the state (the people or the legislature) to abolish Missouri’s lone “independent city.” There seem to be too many people in media, business, and government all of a sudden talking all things merger and reentry, it feels like something big may be going on behind the scenes. At least, one could only hope for our future’s sake.

The legislature can't amend the constitution. They can put an amendment up for a vote of the people.

SouthCitySheks wrote: ↑

9:40 PM - Mar 12

Regarding city reentry into the county, could this happen via a statewide vote to amend the state constitution like Better Together called for? Or perhaps even just a vote of the state legislature to amend the constitution to abolish the Board of Freeholders and St. Louis City’s independent status? I always thought eventual endgame might be for the state (the people or the legislature) to abolish Missouri’s lone “independent city.” There seem to be too many people in media, business, and government all of a sudden talking all things merger and reentry, it feels like something big may be going on behind the scenes. At least, one could only hope for our future’s sake.

The state has been wanting to eliminate the state income tax and city earning tax for years. Only way this happens is to force some sort of merger in St. Louis, because doing those things would bankrupt the region.

It’s time to get serious about it. This is the one time I hope the state interferes

Reading the quotes provided by County leaders is disappointing. Not an ounce of support.  This isn't happening unless the State and voters have a solution.


Sam Page wants St. Louis city and county to get back together amid budget challenges
State Sen. Brian Williams, D-University City, and St. Louis County Assessor Jake Zimmerman are running as Democrats to succeed Page. County Councilman Dennis Hancock is seeking the GOP nomination for county executive.

In an interview, Zimmerman said Page’s announcement “raises more questions than they answer.”
He also said there needs to be discussion about regional cooperation with leaders from St. Charles and Jefferson counties – two fast-growing suburban areas that could have new leadership after 2026.
“But what I'll say is that I'm open to any kind of creative ideas about how we can save money and provide better services to the people of St. Louis County,” Zimmerman said. “And the devil's in the details. Let's see a proposal, and then we can talk about where we will go from there.”
Hancock said any talk about combining the city and county was premature.
“I liken it to when you get on an airplane, they give you a safety talk. And they say, ‘If the mask falls from the ceiling, put your own mask on before you try to help somebody else,’” Hancock said. “We need our own mask on. We need to fix our own problems before we hand them off to somebody else to solve for us.”
Williams declined to comment on Page’s idea.
St. Louis County Council Chairwoman Rita Days, D-Bel Nor, took a dimmer view of Page’s proposal.
She said it wasn’t a good idea for Page to suggest a massive governmental change when he’s about to leave office. She also added that county voters could help with long-term budgetary concerns if they approve an online sales tax later this year.
“The long-term budget problems are because of the county executive,” Days said. “I'm tired of putting on kid gloves with this.”

addxb2 wrote:Reading the quotes provided by County leaders is disappointing. Not an ounce of support.  This isn't happening unless the State and voters have a solution.


Sam Page wants St. Louis city and county to get back together amid budget challenges
State Sen. Brian Williams, D-University City, and St. Louis County Assessor Jake Zimmerman are running as Democrats to succeed Page. County Councilman Dennis Hancock is seeking the GOP nomination for county executive.

In an interview, Zimmerman said Page’s announcement “raises more questions than they answer.”
He also said there needs to be discussion about regional cooperation with leaders from St. Charles and Jefferson counties – two fast-growing suburban areas that could have new leadership after 2026.
“But what I'll say is that I'm open to any kind of creative ideas about how we can save money and provide better services to the people of St. Louis County,” Zimmerman said. “And the devil's in the details. Let's see a proposal, and then we can talk about where we will go from there.”
Hancock said any talk about combining the city and county was premature.
“I liken it to when you get on an airplane, they give you a safety talk. And they say, ‘If the mask falls from the ceiling, put your own mask on before you try to help somebody else,’” Hancock said. “We need our own mask on. We need to fix our own problems before we hand them off to somebody else to solve for us.”
Williams declined to comment on Page’s idea.
St. Louis County Council Chairwoman Rita Days, D-Bel Nor, took a dimmer view of Page’s proposal.
She said it wasn’t a good idea for Page to suggest a massive governmental change when he’s about to leave office. She also added that county voters could help with long-term budgetary concerns if they approve an online sales tax later this year.
“The long-term budget problems are because of the county executive,” Days said. “I'm tired of putting on kid gloves with this.”

Yea not sure what you expected. Hancock's comments also kind of telegraph what Kehoe/state legislature think of it.

Days completely delusional if she thinks the budget problems are solely because of Page, who I think is a bad County Executive, especially when the budget is partially written and approved by the County Council. But she has been a do-nothing for a long time so that bad takes are expected from her.

Williams having no comment, if anything, indicates that he isn't as opposed as others.

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"What about St. Charles Co and JeffCo?" Standard deflection to unfocus and make no progress.

If those counties want to join regional things, they can join Bi State and the ZMD at any time. JeffCo can join GRG. But that means raising taxes, not just further wealth syphoning from Stl City and County.

None of our opinions matter until Auggie/Alex opines on this topic.

whitherSTL wrote:None of our opinions matter until Auggie/Alex opines on this topic.

Will his thumb go up or down? We’re all on the edge of our seats until he weighs in

He doesn't express "opinions"; he only states cold, hard, irrefutable "facts". Anyone who might feel differently is simply "wrong", "stupid", and should just yield to their mental superiors.