Chroma Mixed-Use 4001 Chouteau

roger wyoming II · PostNov 07, 2014#12014-11-07T12:49+00:00

Well this is kind of huge...

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/prin ... pment.html (subscriber-only article)

A grocery store and more than 250 market-rate apartments are part of the first phase of a $73.8 million development planned for the eastern end of The Grove neighborhood.

Green Street St. Louis has 4.5 acres of land under contract at 4001 Chouteau Avenue to build the apartments, which will sit atop 65,000 square feet of commercial space, with about half of that space earmarked for a grocery store.

The land is next door to the nearly completed Commerce Bank facility at 901 South Vandeventer Ave. Commerce Bank is the seller of the property....

I knew something was in the works with 100+ apartments but this is a huge project on vacant property... I hope this gets done! My guess on the grocer is Field's Foods.

imran · PostNov 07, 2014#22014-11-07T13:05+00:00

It's a shame they allowed a gas station (QT) across Vandeventer . This intersection has so much potential. Good news though.

roger wyoming II · PostNov 07, 2014#32014-11-07T13:15+00:00

^ so right.... that area of Vandeventer/Choteau/Manchester/FPP had enough redevelopment potential to justify taking a look at another metrolink stop on the east side of Vandy.... it still may but the QT and apparently poor design in the works for Midtown Station don't help. The new Metrolink stop @ Cortex will be a bit more than 1/2 mile from this project, btw, so not great but certainly serviceable.

PostNov 07, 2014#42014-11-07T14:13+00:00

sheesh.... I just noticed that this is just Phase 1! I'll also have to kiss whomever eventually tackles that horrid parcel at the foot of the Vandy exit with the billboard by replacing it with a good infill project.

Greatest St. Louis · PostNov 07, 2014#52014-11-07T14:26+00:00

Splitting hairs, but that's the Forest Park Southeast neighborhood, colloquially referred to as "The Grove," not to be confused with "Tower Grove" to the northeast of there.

roger wyoming II · PostNov 07, 2014#62014-11-07T14:36+00:00

^ not enough morning coffee yet.... corrected!

wabash · PostNov 07, 2014#72014-11-07T16:36+00:00

Great news! The Grove continues to roll.

I wonder if the Gills have any hand in this, since their last proposal was shelved and they could still be looking to do something. Also, I wonder if the AFL-CIO Building Fund is involved. This seems to fit their profile (following investments in Cortona, Park Pacific, and Laurel).

Although this is by far the most significant proposal, it's good there are three floating around: Gills (albeit shelved for now), UIC (4321 Manchester - Donut Shop Building), and now this. Furthermore, they're all from developers with strong track-records and continuing interests in the neighborhood/area.

dweebe · PostNov 07, 2014#82014-11-07T16:40+00:00

imran wrote:It's a shame they allowed a gas station (QT) across Vandeventer . This intersection has so much potential. Good news though.

I still don't get the hatred for the QT at that spot. Who'd want to live in a building with an overpass to one side and train tracks behind?

TheNewSaintLouis · PostNov 07, 2014#92014-11-07T17:04+00:00

I think this is great news and could we possibly speculate a trader joes as being the grocery store??? In all a good quality location. The QT doesn't bother me by any means since I'm in love with them

dweebe · PostNov 07, 2014#102014-11-07T17:09+00:00

Based upon their similar costs, I guessing this should be a lot like the Wash U. development in the Delmar Loop?

PostNov 07, 2014#112014-11-07T17:13+00:00

TheNewSaintLouis wrote:I think this is great news and could we possibly speculate a trader joes as being the grocery store??? In all a good quality location.

A Grove resident I work with said she talked to the manager of the Brentwood Trader Joes and he said his bosses had no interest at all in The Grove.

Maybe it will be a second United Provisions?

roger wyoming II · PostNov 07, 2014#122014-11-07T17:19+00:00

^ That would be cool. Field's Foods is also ripe for the area..... they are on record looking to expand in the city on sites with good interstate access. Whatever it is, I hope it is not a stand-alone building but something like United Provisions.

dweebe · PostNov 07, 2014#132014-11-07T17:39+00:00

roger wyoming II wrote:^ That would be cool. Field's Foods is also ripe for the area..... they are on record looking to expand in the city on sites with good interstate access. Whatever it is, I hope it is not a stand-alone building but something like United Provisions.

That's what I'm hoping. Multi-level building with grocery on the first floor and residential above.

Presbyterian · PostNov 07, 2014#142014-11-07T18:19+00:00

From the Business Journal...

Brian Pratt, vice president of development for Green Street, said the company is in talks with several St. Louis-area grocery stores as well as a few from outside the region.

The project will include more than 550 parking spaces for public and private use...

wabash · PostNov 07, 2014#152014-11-07T19:20+00:00

Damn. That's a ton of parking. For comparison, Cortona has 314 parking spaces (including 190 structured) for 278 apartments.

quincunx · PostNov 07, 2014#162014-11-07T19:38+00:00

550? Too much

Gateway City · PostNov 07, 2014#172014-11-07T19:57+00:00

quincunx wrote:550? Too much

What if a lot of the spaces are for visitors to the Grove like the one garage in the Loop? It would eliminate the need for parking lots on other parts of the street, which could then be developed.

roger wyoming II · PostNov 07, 2014#182014-11-07T20:12+00:00

550 spots does appear to be pretty high but the 63,000 sq. ft. of planned commercial space needs to be factored in as well.... that's quite a bit of space.

By comparison the Citywalk project has 438 spaces slated for just 178 units and 30,000 sq. ft. for Whole Foods. (I believe that is the only commercial space but I could be wrong). So by my count, this project would have just 112 more parking spaces for 72 more units and 30,000 sq. ft. or so. And in a less walkable location to boot. Also, there apparently is a Phase II contemplated, which hopefully would be served by much of the same parking.

dbInSouthCity · PostNov 07, 2014#192014-11-07T20:21+00:00

If we go by the zoning code, they need about 330ish tops

roger wyoming II · PostNov 07, 2014#202014-11-07T20:30+00:00

^ thanks... what's the equation for commercial square footage?

dbInSouthCity · PostNov 07, 2014#212014-11-07T20:43+00:00

retail
1 spot for every 700sq ft after the first 3000sq ft

office
1 spot for every 1250sq ft after the first 7000sq ft

bar/restaurant
1 spot for every 200sq after the first 1000 sq ft

residential
1 per unit

You can get around these with the City pretty easily but banks wont give you a loan....bank loan parking requirements are almost always more then the actual Zoning Code.

roger wyoming II · PostNov 07, 2014#222014-11-07T21:00+00:00

^ thanks.... so I'm getting about 335 spots if by code -- 250 for residential and 85 for 63,000 sq. ft. retail.

Citywalk at that ratio would be about 218 -- 178 for residential and about 40 for Whole Foods. With 438 spaces, that sucker is going to have double the zoning requirement!

Presbyterian · PostNov 07, 2014#232014-11-07T22:14+00:00

If they're buildng 65,000 s.f. of retail in phase one with an added 20,000 s.f. of retail in phase two, then they're not looking at just a neighborhood draw.

The article says a grocer would take "half" of the phase one retail. I'm curious what grocer might want a 20,000-40,000 s.f. store in that location.

Typical sizes:
Trader Joe's 14-15,000 s.f.
Culinaria 21,000 s.f.
Aldi's 15-18,000 s.f.
Natural Grocers 12-20,000 s.f.
Fresh Market 21,000 s.f.
Earth Fare 25-27,000 s.f.
Fields Foods 37,000 s.f.
Whole Foods 38-40,000 s.f.
Walmart Neighborhood Market 40,000 s.f.
Shop'n Save 40-60,000 s.f.
Schnuck's 55-80,000 s.f.

PostNov 07, 2014#242014-11-07T23:03+00:00

A few more details, including the name Chouteau's Grove:
http://nextstl.com/2014/11/green-street ... ail-grove/

roger wyoming II · PostNov 07, 2014#252014-11-07T23:10+00:00

^ "Named Chouteau’s Grove, the $70M development will feature apartments over first-floor retail and structured parking."

Doesn't seem particularly imminent, btw. Hopefully proceeding more quickly than the Midtown Station proposal.