^ fantastic.... hopefully this will lead to even bigger and better things for the complex.
Awesome. Do you know who's spearheading this?True_dope wrote:starting March 2015 at the lemp brewery
The Swap Meet will be a Sunday market for 100 small merchants and food vendors to sell their products and build a customer base. Check out these drawings provided by Killeen Studio Architects to get a peek at what to expect!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 5e62b1b3b4
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 568464b37a
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The retail and commercial development along Cherokee - especially west of Jefferson has really took off in the past 18 months. It's been great to see.
Residential development seems to be lagging though as there are still a lot of board-ups and vacant properties in the area, even within a half block or so of Cherokee proper.
I guess in this sense it's similar to the Grove's development where commercial stabilized the neighborhood and now residential is taking off. Although the Grove has the CWE, the hospitals and Cortex as catalysts, that Cherokee does not.
With that said, anybody have any opinions on what it will take for the commercial momentum on Cherokee to turn into significant residential development & rehab?
Residential development seems to be lagging though as there are still a lot of board-ups and vacant properties in the area, even within a half block or so of Cherokee proper.
I guess in this sense it's similar to the Grove's development where commercial stabilized the neighborhood and now residential is taking off. Although the Grove has the CWE, the hospitals and Cortex as catalysts, that Cherokee does not.
With that said, anybody have any opinions on what it will take for the commercial momentum on Cherokee to turn into significant residential development & rehab?
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^ It is happening but just slowly.... one of the main issues is that there is so much of South City to compete with in terms of residential reinvestment -- Fox Park, McKinley Heights, Dutchtown, etc. that I think spreads out the gains but makes them more thin. If we get an improving economy that allows for more home buyers and brings more people and jobs to the region and city that will help enormously, but w/o that it will take awhile. Enhanced transit down Jefferson would be the single-most important advance that we could undertake to help these neighborhoods.
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Mortgage reform that allows less than 20% for first time buyers will also help.
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^ Seems like a hotter single-family housing market (through a loosening of requirements and/or improved economy) would have multiple impacts.... one the one hand it would allow for more opportunity to rehab and infill these types of neighborhoods where single-family homes prevail over multi-family, but on the other hand it might tampen demand on the explosive apartment construction going on in the central corridor and open up the spigot once again for St. Chuck's new home construction. At least with an an improving economy and more in-migration, the city should be able to hold its own even if growth booms out in the hinterlands again.
Looking at historical permit numbers, btw, it is somewhat of a surprise to me that we've had almost the same number of single-family rehab permits in 2014 as there were in the high-flying 2003-2006 era.
Looking at historical permit numbers, btw, it is somewhat of a surprise to me that we've had almost the same number of single-family rehab permits in 2014 as there were in the high-flying 2003-2006 era.
Tough question. As americancitizen pointed out the neighboring institutions aren't there. I think Cherokee should be looked at in context of a larger plan—that is—Jefferson Ave. It's a beautiful street with huge potential all the way from DTWest to the Broadway/Cherokee triangle. I'm surprised the SLDC/Planning and Urban Design Agency hasn't brought forth a master plan for that street (or I'm not aware of any effort.) A revived, strong Jefferson would connect Benton Park/Arsenal, both sides of Cherokee, encourage interest along Gravois, improve the gateways to both Lafayette Park and SLU Med to the west, Wells Fargo, Old North, blah blah blah....,
Didn't mean to ignore the question regarding Cherokee/residential. There's a lot of pockets of things happening in South City. Jefferson Ave. is probably the best way to set the reset tone and stitch them all together.
Didn't mean to ignore the question regarding Cherokee/residential. There's a lot of pockets of things happening in South City. Jefferson Ave. is probably the best way to set the reset tone and stitch them all together.
Did I miss FHA loans going away? I just bought a house in STL with downpayment assistance for 1.5% down. Granted you have mortgage insurance but it is a way, in fact it would be great to see more people leverage a 203k mortgage to bring back properties.downtown2007 wrote:Mortgage reform that allows less than 20% for first time buyers will also help.
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you can still buy houses with less then 20% and not have it be FHA...FHA sucks now because it makes you pay PMI for the term of the loan...on a $125,000 house, thats extra $20,000 in PMI payments
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We bought a house for 5% down with no PMI a few years ago.dbInSouthCity wrote:you can still buy houses with less then 20% and not have it be FHA...FHA sucks now because it makes you pay PMI for the term of the loan...on a $125,000 house, thats extra $20,000 in PMI payments
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shadrach wrote:Tough question. As americancitizen pointed out the neighboring institutions aren't there. I think Cherokee should be looked at in context of a larger plan—that is—Jefferson Ave. It's a beautiful street with huge potential all the way from DTWest to the Broadway/Cherokee triangle. I'm surprised the SLDC/Planning and Urban Design Agency hasn't brought forth a master plan for that street (or I'm not aware of any effort.) A revived, strong Jefferson would connect Benton Park/Arsenal, both sides of Cherokee, encourage interest along Gravois, improve the gateways to both Lafayette Park and SLU Med to the west, Wells Fargo, Old North, blah blah blah....,
Didn't mean to ignore the question regarding Cherokee/residential. There's a lot of pockets of things happening in South City. Jefferson Ave. is probably the best way to set the reset tone and stitch them all together.
I think you are right on in terms of major improvements of/developments on Jefferson being the necessary catalyst for a big chunk of South City, Cherokee included. Might add Gravois to that as well as it sort of serves as a negative divider between the Fox Park & TGE neighborhoods north of it and Benton Park West to the south of it. Stunting growth in both directions probably. Transit to me is the best bet for either street, in the form of that N/S Metrolink line. Short of that, I'm not sure....
It would be nice to have a blue/red type of N/S line, where you have two lines through downtown with one splitting off and going down Gravois and one splitting off and going down Jefferson. I think both streets are excessively wide enough where you could take out the center lanes and add street-level rail at low cost and little disruption to existing infrastructure.americancitizen wrote:shadrach wrote:Tough question. As americancitizen pointed out the neighboring institutions aren't there. I think Cherokee should be looked at in context of a larger plan—that is—Jefferson Ave. It's a beautiful street with huge potential all the way from DTWest to the Broadway/Cherokee triangle. I'm surprised the SLDC/Planning and Urban Design Agency hasn't brought forth a master plan for that street (or I'm not aware of any effort.) A revived, strong Jefferson would connect Benton Park/Arsenal, both sides of Cherokee, encourage interest along Gravois, improve the gateways to both Lafayette Park and SLU Med to the west, Wells Fargo, Old North, blah blah blah....,
Didn't mean to ignore the question regarding Cherokee/residential. There's a lot of pockets of things happening in South City. Jefferson Ave. is probably the best way to set the reset tone and stitch them all together.
I think you are right on in terms of major improvements of/developments on Jefferson being the necessary catalyst for a big chunk of South City, Cherokee included. Might add Gravois to that as well as it sort of serves as a negative divider between the Fox Park & TGE neighborhoods north of it and Benton Park West to the south of it. Stunting growth in both directions probably. Transit to me is the best bet for either street, in the form of that N/S Metrolink line. Short of that, I'm not sure....
Good point about Gravois, that poor street is one ragged, frayed edge.
Transit is the ideal situation but shouldn't prohibit redevelopment. First, I doubt it would happen ($$$) in the near future.
Something along the lines of Great Streets—new pink granite streetlights, pedestrian lighting, traffic lights, landscaping, bump-outs, calmers, pavers, thematic signage, etc.—is more affordable, can be in stages and rebrand the area.
Transit is the ideal situation but shouldn't prohibit redevelopment. First, I doubt it would happen ($$$) in the near future.
Something along the lines of Great Streets—new pink granite streetlights, pedestrian lighting, traffic lights, landscaping, bump-outs, calmers, pavers, thematic signage, etc.—is more affordable, can be in stages and rebrand the area.
What stretch of Gravois is the most interesting for redevelopment?
^Bevo generally is the most intact but wouldn't help Cherokee much. I think there's potential to make the Grand/Gravois area urban again though.
I wonder if any of you youngsters can remember when Gravois had reversible lanes controlled by a system of overhead traffic lights?
Funny that you mention that; we were driving along Gravois and my father started describing how there used to be two middle lanes that switched directions for the morning and evening rush hours.framer wrote:I wonder if any of you youngsters can remember when Gravois had reversible lanes controlled by a system of overhead traffic lights?
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When was thatframer wrote:I wonder if any of you youngsters can remember when Gravois had reversible lanes controlled by a system of overhead traffic lights?
Not sure, but I remember it in the late 60s/early 70s.moorlander wrote:When was thatframer wrote:I wonder if any of you youngsters can remember when Gravois had reversible lanes controlled by a system of overhead traffic lights?
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I vaguely remember that, I think, but I was so high back then I really don't know if I was coming or going.
I have a picture of those reversible lanes and an overhead signal somewhere. The first time I saw it I didn't think it was real. It looked rather dangerous.
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roger wyoming II wrote:I vaguely remember that, I think, but I was so high back then I really don't know if I was coming or going.
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I believe the reversible lights were removed in the late 80s or early 90s. It might have been the same time they planted all the pin oaks along Gravois and parts of Jefferson.
Back to the topic of Cherokee, I was there one night this week and accousted several times by homeless types asking for money. There was one guy who walked into the bar and went from table to table before being chased out. The begging seems to be on the increase. I didn't mind as much but noticed some groups of women that were extremely uncomfortable with it.
Back to the topic of Cherokee, I was there one night this week and accousted several times by homeless types asking for money. There was one guy who walked into the bar and went from table to table before being chased out. The begging seems to be on the increase. I didn't mind as much but noticed some groups of women that were extremely uncomfortable with it.
Something is going into the old Strange Overtones space, also Bespoke did a nice rehab of their building and the storefront looks great.
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Also Earthbound Brewing is now open. Check it out if you are in the area. The space is cool and the owner gave me a free tour.