The auditorium building is looking pretty nice. Maybe some kind of copper sheathing?
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Bob Clark discussed the construction schedule last night. Tract 1 and 2 would be built simultaneously and would take 26mo and upon completion track 3 would begin immediately.
I spoke in favor at the meeting last night. Nice to meet you, Moorlander!
I'm a bit confused. Sounds like there's going to be more parking along Forsyth, not less.moorlander wrote:
Here is a new view of the the Wellbridge property. It's now going to be parking garage with street level retail. This parking structure, now part of the Hanley tower would allow other garages wishing the campus to be made smaller. It was encouraged in by the audience to add more residential along Forsyth so it's not a boulevard of parking structures.
Sounds like just shuffling some parking from below towers to the now larger (because of the Well ridge acquisition) Forsyth garage. So, maybe more along Forsyth, but the same overall.
I love those shots of the Metrolink station entrance on the south side of Forsyth built into the base of the building (and possibly with escalators?). Doesn't get much more urban than that.
I love those shots of the Metrolink station entrance on the south side of Forsyth built into the base of the building (and possibly with escalators?). Doesn't get much more urban than that.
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framer wrote:The auditorium building is looking pretty nice. Maybe some kind of copper sheathing?
I'm not sure but here is a better quality image.
And here is a link to Bob Clark's 114 page presentation of you really want to get down in the weeds on this. http://www.centene.com/wp-content/uploa ... NAL-LR.pdf
That last image is great; I've been looking for one like that. Now we need one that includes 212 S. Meramec.
BTW, I wonder how long until the residents of The Plaza realize that District 3 is going to disrupt their view of Forest Park, the CWE, and Downtown.
BTW, I wonder how long until the residents of The Plaza realize that District 3 is going to disrupt their view of Forest Park, the CWE, and Downtown.
^It'll block The Plaza's views of The Loop's fledgling skyline and some of Wash U.'s campus, but their views of Forest Park, the CWE skyline, or Downtown wouldn't be obstructed. It's just a bit too far north of The Plaza to significantly block much to the east. The Crescent on the other hand is completely blocked/*ocked.
Thanks for all the updates Moorlander and for keeping us all in the loop. I can't get enough of this rendering - which makes me think that Phase/District 3 may be the most transformative - pushing DT Clayton as far east as it will go:![]()
Thanks for all the updates Moorlander and for keeping us all in the loop. I can't get enough of this rendering - which makes me think that Phase/District 3 may be the most transformative - pushing DT Clayton as far east as it will go:
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^Agreed. That view actually looks impressively urban. From that perspective, the development actually seems to build some semblance of a real streetwall along Forsyth.
The auditorium is great, has a real Barclay's Center vibe to it, albeit on a much smaller scale.
The auditorium is great, has a real Barclay's Center vibe to it, albeit on a much smaller scale.
the new Clayton where EVERYTHING looks the same!
http://crosscut.com/2015/04/the-new-sea ... -the-same/
could St.Louis/Clayton for once get out of the box???
http://www.dezeen.com/2016/08/03/seven- ... ro-brazil/
http://crosscut.com/2015/04/the-new-sea ... -the-same/
could St.Louis/Clayton for once get out of the box???
http://www.dezeen.com/2016/08/03/seven- ... ro-brazil/
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Here the video of the presentation by Bob Clark. Near the end you can see Gasm stand up and command the room.
Another doomsday postcard
![]()
Followed by another promotional flyer from Centene
![]()
![]()
Followed by another promotional flyer from Centene
The doomsdayers would probably get their message across better with a less alarmist and over-the-top tone. Also, 20,000 new cars when Centene is planning to bring 2,000 jobs to Downtown Clayton - and there aren't any single family homes on this stretch of Forsyth - are they just making stuff up?
in addition to making stuff up and assuming they speak for all Clayton residents, the NIMBY group behind this mailing is conspicuously elusive. The website has no contact info whatsoever. They aren't interested in hearing other perspectives, they just want as many people to sign their silly petition as possible. These people are absolutely delusional. Get a hobby,
Did anything new go on tonight? I figured there would be some comments in here. I am guessing nothing exciting happened.
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^ based on NextSTL's twitter feed it wasn't pretty.
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I did not attend.
From NextDoor:
"The much anticipated public hearing concluded close to 9 p. m. tonight. The Clayton High School auditorium proved to be the perfect venue for the turnout. I estimate that over 200 - 250 people must have been present.
The meeting has been very successful in a sense, that effectively brought up the questions and subjects that are to be addressed to shape the project according to the best interest of the region, for the businesses and citizens alike.
ClayCo CEO Bob Clark updated presentation in part focused on how the current plan of Centene Campus meets exactly the strategic plans as they are in the Master Plan for the area. According to Clark, the current plans are what the region should be built according to the dreams, as reflected in the Master Plan, dating back to the 1950s.
There were also responses to questions from the August 1st meeting.
The up to date version of the Master Plan for City of Clayton from 2010, however, calls for a different urban environment than an overwhelmingly corporate district that the current design would create.
Attorney Kevin Cushing representing area residents have contrasted the development plan with the up to date version of the Master Plan. In his presentation he showed, that Centene's plan not entirely congruent with the Master Plan, in fact, there are contradictions with many aspect of the vision and regulations accepted in 2010.
The clarity of the factual elements of Kevin Cushings's presentation make it somewhat surprising, why were not those well described concepts adopted in the current design.
It includes parking, location of parking structures, pedestrian friendliness, larger green and open spaces, the ratio of residential and retail vs office buildings and more.
While the details are extremely important to discuss and revise, the main question really is: what type of urban environment will be created? Will it become primarily an office zone with lots of parking structures? What plan would offer a different kind of downtown experience, with destinations to go to on foot? Could be more residential and retail as well as green places?
The overall outcome of the meeting however was not about opposing the development. It was rather emphasizing the need to find consensus, how to size, shape and balance the project to serve best the business development of the region and the citizens' interests.
I think there was some consensus, that a project of this magnitude needs more time and consideration to reach a plan with the best outcome. Many resident asked for not to proceed too fast at the expense of thorough considerations.
The material presented on this meeting is expected to be available online.
The next public hearing is scheduled to September 6th. 2016."
From NextDoor:
"The much anticipated public hearing concluded close to 9 p. m. tonight. The Clayton High School auditorium proved to be the perfect venue for the turnout. I estimate that over 200 - 250 people must have been present.
The meeting has been very successful in a sense, that effectively brought up the questions and subjects that are to be addressed to shape the project according to the best interest of the region, for the businesses and citizens alike.
ClayCo CEO Bob Clark updated presentation in part focused on how the current plan of Centene Campus meets exactly the strategic plans as they are in the Master Plan for the area. According to Clark, the current plans are what the region should be built according to the dreams, as reflected in the Master Plan, dating back to the 1950s.
There were also responses to questions from the August 1st meeting.
The up to date version of the Master Plan for City of Clayton from 2010, however, calls for a different urban environment than an overwhelmingly corporate district that the current design would create.
Attorney Kevin Cushing representing area residents have contrasted the development plan with the up to date version of the Master Plan. In his presentation he showed, that Centene's plan not entirely congruent with the Master Plan, in fact, there are contradictions with many aspect of the vision and regulations accepted in 2010.
The clarity of the factual elements of Kevin Cushings's presentation make it somewhat surprising, why were not those well described concepts adopted in the current design.
It includes parking, location of parking structures, pedestrian friendliness, larger green and open spaces, the ratio of residential and retail vs office buildings and more.
While the details are extremely important to discuss and revise, the main question really is: what type of urban environment will be created? Will it become primarily an office zone with lots of parking structures? What plan would offer a different kind of downtown experience, with destinations to go to on foot? Could be more residential and retail as well as green places?
The overall outcome of the meeting however was not about opposing the development. It was rather emphasizing the need to find consensus, how to size, shape and balance the project to serve best the business development of the region and the citizens' interests.
I think there was some consensus, that a project of this magnitude needs more time and consideration to reach a plan with the best outcome. Many resident asked for not to proceed too fast at the expense of thorough considerations.
The material presented on this meeting is expected to be available online.
The next public hearing is scheduled to September 6th. 2016."
As I see it, a "master plan" is only that.........a master plan.
And how often do cities, communities and neighborhoods stick to or implement "master plans"? If Clayton - or even St. Louis City - had implemented previous "master" plans, the cities would be coming up with more plans still. While plans are important, they are often fluid and are subject to change depending on the needs and desires of the community.
And how often do cities, communities and neighborhoods stick to or implement "master plans"? For the life of me, however, I don't understand why are people yapping about plans from 2010 when jobs and economic development are on the line in 2016? St. Louis just got out of a recession.
Further, cities have to find willing developers to build and materialize the plan accordingly. The city's "master" plan may not benefit the developer, satisfy their needs or the plans could become obsolete over time.
I have always seen master planning or planning, in general, as what could be versus what will be.
At the end of the day, the State of Missouri, Clayton, St. Louis County and local economic development councils need to find a way to make this work. Centene has been a GREAT corporate citizen.
Complaining about a little congestion - that may not even materialize - is not worth losing 2,000 jobs and additional residual jobs and economic development just because people don't want sit in their cars an extra five minutes.
And by the way, this Cushing lawyer guy is the worst. How in the hell can he tell Centene/Clayco what they need?
And how often do cities, communities and neighborhoods stick to or implement "master plans"? If Clayton - or even St. Louis City - had implemented previous "master" plans, the cities would be coming up with more plans still. While plans are important, they are often fluid and are subject to change depending on the needs and desires of the community.
And how often do cities, communities and neighborhoods stick to or implement "master plans"? For the life of me, however, I don't understand why are people yapping about plans from 2010 when jobs and economic development are on the line in 2016? St. Louis just got out of a recession.
Further, cities have to find willing developers to build and materialize the plan accordingly. The city's "master" plan may not benefit the developer, satisfy their needs or the plans could become obsolete over time.
I have always seen master planning or planning, in general, as what could be versus what will be.
At the end of the day, the State of Missouri, Clayton, St. Louis County and local economic development councils need to find a way to make this work. Centene has been a GREAT corporate citizen.
Complaining about a little congestion - that may not even materialize - is not worth losing 2,000 jobs and additional residual jobs and economic development just because people don't want sit in their cars an extra five minutes.
And by the way, this Cushing lawyer guy is the worst. How in the hell can he tell Centene/Clayco what they need?
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"Still, the commission and staff expressed general support for the concept. “We want to see continued growth, not just for Clayton but for the entire region,” Lichtenfeld said."