urbanSTL

I wish I could just make a drawing to help you understand what I think would work best. But it starts with Chouteaus Landing...the new revitalized 'Landing South District'. Connecting the soon to be Chouteau Lake is a bit of drainage runoff, that cuts right through the Landing South, creating a sort of River walk like San Antonio:









I'd like to make this a more family friendly area vs. the more adult Laclede's Landing. This could be a quick walk down from the Ballpark during the summer, along the Lake, as it turns into a river. The good thing about this is the water comes from a controlled water source, so you could build a levy/retaining wall that can close off when the river rises.



In my ideal world, we tunnel 55/44, and 64, and 70 since it's my ideal world...



This would really slow down traffic, and create a oneness with the riverfront in a way that has been needed ever since they built the Arch. So the Lake would really start with a small marina just east of the stadium, where there would be a small complex with a boardwalk/restaurant that rents boats, kayaks, etc. Further up, the Lake turns back into a river, where there would be a section that would be available for adults to do a little whitewater challenge. Similar to what they built in Atlanta for the 96 games, but obviously easier to navigate. I'd like to see greenway along the waterway, but with available residential mid-high rises. I don't really want some 40 story tower overlooking the river. I'd rather have a bunch of small 3-10 story buildings lined up on both sides of the park.



What I've got in my head is amazing. But I do like what they have planned, and I would support that completely.

Trent, good ideas. Thanks for the Riverwalk pics, that would be a good model for the lake or at least part of it.

I couldn't agree more. This lake shold be urban .. not a tacky suburban office park "water feature."

Brush Creek in Kansas City, Country Club Plaza, may be another good example although it is below grade.

Who can be contacted to make sure that those in charge at least read our ideas and opinions? I'd hate for this to be built as a suburban office park looking lake, have people complain after the fact, and have the developers say there was no input from the public. I really think that if this gets built as a suburban neighborhood looking lake, it could be almost as bad as the depressed industrial and train tracks that are aleady there.



We need buildings/restaurants/entertainment surrounding this thing. Imagine a restaurant/bar with a balcony that hangs out over the water. The San Antonio river walk pictures are a good start. We need to let these developers know that this is how we feel.

"I haven't been able to get a feel for the reality of this project. Is it on the way? Is it still a dream? Is it a dream that is really going to happen? What is the status?"





I sent an email to mayorslay.com and got a response saying the prospects are "60/40" for this project to be completed. To the optimist, there is a better that 50% chance for this to get done. I truly hope it does.

I've heard that it is a sure thing and I've heard Richard Baron publicly state that it will take the next ten years before completion.

Matt, although i am optimistic that the project might even be started, it?s no sure thing. Honestly, the only part of the pictures above of the proposed lake that looks bad is the one farther out with the rock edging. The pictures of the stuff near downtown seem to fit what everyone else on this board has been clamoring for.

<A HREF="http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... 017">First greenway lake might be dry for about six years</A>

By Martin Van Der Werf

Of the Post-Dispatch

06/21/2005



Chouteau Lake, the long proposed greenway of water and biking paths that would link downtown and Forest Park, is quietly taking shape.



The Great Rivers Greenway District has purchased a 9-acre parking lot south of Highway 40 (Interstate 64) between Eighth Street and Tucker, with the intention of making it the first lake in the chain.



<A HREF="http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... 2700320017">>>> read more</A>

A chain of lakes????? What are they thinking, one large body of water would be more striking. I guess that nixes most of the boating ideas.

If it should be thought of as "a chain of lakes" stretching from Forest Park and the Missouri Botanical Garden towards Downtown, not just within Downtown.



Just as in Forest Park, there are a chain of lakes stretching from the Art Museum throughout the park to the Science Center, and certainly the Grand Basin is striking.



Similarly, I think that Chouteau Lake in Downtown can likewise be striking, even if it has a chain of other bodies of water to its west in the planned linear greenway.

I always thought the plan was for a chain of lakes with one central lake that started at the ball park, and headed westward going well past 14th street bridge.

How about a Ziggarat, but the famous Hanging Gardens from ancient Mesopotamia? Wouldn't that be cool! Lush terraced gardens several stories high overlooking the Chouteau Lake. Just a fun thought I have pondered today.

I'm sorry, but a "chain of lakes" sounds cute and precious, and it does look GREAT in Forest Park, but it's too small scale for me. We should be thinking bigger. We should have an area vibrant with aquatic activity, a place that can command high end prices for waterfront property. Think about it, NOTHING in St. Louis County, St. Charles County, etc. could compete with it. Just having a stream with a few picnic tables along side it isn't going to be that big of a draw. I'm sure people might say it's "too large scale" and "we should just be happy with whatever we can get". But, come on, we've got to think bigger.

We don't actually know what we are getting, so I'm not sure if we can acurately criticize yet. I personally want a large central lake, with a system of smaller lakes and a stream coming off of it.

This is a VERY important project that Richard Baron (my second favorite role model after Dr. MLK Jr.) is spear heading. I hope it is still moving forward and that banks are financing it and that other developers are joining the bandwagon to make this happen while the public waits in anticipation. I hope Mayor Slay is pushing the lake and development since it along with others can be the highlight of his administration.

It is moving forward, fastest in Downtown where property acquisition near the new stadium has occurred, but dealing with the railroads in this greenway corridor remain the biggest question mark as to how quickly this project will advance.

Thanks for the info Southslider. I live in Lafayette Square and occasionally hear the whistling trains in the distance. I hope the railroad companies negotiatiate fairly so this project can move forward quickly.

If Chouteau Pond once existed and was fed from springs, then naturally the springs should be reconnected to the lake.



The P-D did a story five years ago when this project first made headlines about a major spring that used to create the pond being located underneath the Central Library.



The aquifers in the zone of aeration underneath downtown St. Louis obviously need to be detected, mapped, studied, and reconnected to the pond/lake. Need Meteroic water (fresh circulating water in the open spaces in the rock subsurface) not connate groundwater (entraped brackish water found in the open spaces in the rocks).

^

You lost me after the second paragraph.

I love meteroic water.

Geologic explanation of how Chouteau Lake should be fed by the natural environment



The water should come from Unconfined groundwater since this is a humid climate. Springs are the natural emission of groundwater at the ground surface and form streams that would flow into the lake. Springs are commonly located in the

Zone of Aeration (Vadose Zone): Is the area above the water table NOT saturated with water and filled primarily with air

The Urban Review - St. Louis web site has a link to the Urban Land Institute (ULI) Chouteau Lake/Greenway design competition. The ULI site has a QT MOV video that is well produced showing a historical "vignette" of the lake/pond area and the proposed developments for the Greenway et al.



I only wish that we could access a better quality video file.



check it out.

Of all the projects happening in the city, this one is my favorite. The video isn't the greatest, but below are some links from the ULI site which give a fairly good feel for the lake/greenway project as a whole. Apologies if they're repeats from earlier posts.



Just curious: The first link appears to show a finger of Chouteau Lake reaching up through the Cupples complex. And there's another lane of water extending all the way down to Chouteau St., about where 16th street would be. Anybody know exactly what's planned? Thanks.



Interesting to see a revamped 22nd street in there as well...



Overview



City Greenways



Grand Blvd Area

Ga ga



I'm drooling at the luxuriness of this project to have a pond and central high quality park linking Downtown to almost Forest Park. Forest Park South East neighborhood looks like a crossroads of Metro/bike paths/walk/skating paths which could make it a great bicycle neighborhood? I can only imagine the possibilities with Lafayette Square, Gate District, and Bohemian Hill new development that should be urban design and not suburban.



Talk about sexy real estate, this park/waterways/greenways should make central St. Louis hop



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