urbanSTL

This is also a phased project that basically started with Cupples and now the new ballpark so in a sense it is already well underway. This project would not of moved forward without the ballpark.

HOK's plan looks incredible, but I wonder if it would be possible to make it big enough for actual recreation, rather than for purely aesthetic reasons. Imagine watching Crew races alongside downtown St. Louis, or sailboats passing by, like The Charles in Boston. Obviously cost, land clearance, etc. are huge factors..but it why not explore the possibility?

I was thinking the same thing. How cool would it be for Wash U's rowing team (and SLU for that matter) to compete right in the heart of downtown.

markofucity wrote:I was thinking the same thing. How cool would it be for Wash U's rowing team (and SLU for that matter) to compete right in the heart of downtown.

Just curious. Where do the crew teams normally compete? Also, if anyone knows, I have never really visited the lakes in central Missouri. Are they a fun place to relax? Water (oceans/lakes) and other geographic beauties like mountains are things that St. Louis doesn't seem to have ready access to make it more enticing for people to come. But if the lakes in Missouri and the rivers in Arkansas are great places to relax, it just makes this a greater city to live in.

I used to know the rowing coach at Wash U and I'm pretty sure they rowed at some park out west. I want to say Creve Coeur but I'm not sure.



I have no idea where SLU rows but I'm pretty sure they have a team ...



I was just thinking how cool it would be. I've seen collegiate rowing in London and Boston and its actually a pretty cool experience.



Can you imagine people watching collegiate rowing through downtown St. Louis?.

SLU does have crew, but I have no idea where they row at either. That is a cool idea for the lake.

Sorry for the semi-incoherent reply. Had a long night ......



It would be a cool thing to do on the lake though (collegiate rowing contests). Would add a lot of character to down town.

This is probably my favorite city revitalization project. I just love the idea of a gigantic greenway running along 64-40. Plus, it would give a sort of go-ahead to develop the south of downtown area a little more.

St. Louis Rowing Club http://www.slrc.net/



Washington University, SLRC, and SLU all row on Creve Coeur Lake.



History of Crew in St. Louis: http://www.slrc.net/info/briefhistory2.html

2 things:



How deep does the lake have to be so that people can boat/row on it? I ask this because the Mill Creek sewer runs right beneath where the lake would be. This will limit how deep the lake can be. Personally, I think that a lake is unnecessary. It should just be a greenway.



Second, about the downtown mall. I would like to find out the story behind the one office building that somehow was built on the mall (one gateway?). How did the city allow that to be built there? If we ever want the mall to be beautiful or a great gathering place, then this building should be demolished. Harsh, I know. But how about respecting the original mall design and having some principles when regulating development.

Doobydoo asked about depth and boats on Choteau Lake. Does anybody know? It would be more fun with boats. I would really like water taxis.

Crew (Rowing) can be done on a lake of at least 5 or so feet. Sailing, would require a bit deeper lake.

Feel free to disagree if you work for the MSD or have access to engineering reports, but there is no way the lake will be 5 feet deep. I would guess that it would be max 2-3 feet deep due to the sewer that runs beneath the tracks. This is why I think that a greenway - bike path, jogging path, etc that connects to the surrounding neighborhoods would be best. I don't want a suburban office park lake in downtown. We already have the Mississippi. Let's make better use of that. Let's use the greenway to tie together the disparate parts of the City - downtown, midtown, forest park, the riverfront, and the new trail network that runs north of the city on the river.

I don't see a sewer as an obstacle. They can relocate it along with the other utilities in the area when construction begins. The biggest issue is moving the railroads.

And the sewer doesn't take up the whole valley either, only about 14 feet of several hundred. The rail yards are the real obstacle.

Moving the railyards is not hard. It's all about $$. Union Pacific only needs one track at the far southern end of the area, but they know that the land is valuable. The real issue (for the lake, not the greenway) is the sewer. This sewer is huge and is very old. The cost of moving it would be prohibitive and the cost of reinforcing it and waterproofing it will be high. Here is a picture of the sewer:



How about



We can do better than building a suburban lake. How about mixed income housing with a new grade school/high school with public athletic fields? How about a huge community garden?

No offense taken. All I am doing is throwing out ideas to see what people think. Why not a small community garden? You could find people who would want to participate. It's not like we'd have a community garden from Broadway to Tucker. Why not a soccer field or two? Why not a school? Why not a bike path the weaves between a number of different uses? Why not a large residential building adjacent to Highway 40, where the units begin above the sightlines for the new stadium? You could put a parking/gym/beer garden on the lower floors below the highway.



Also, it's not like we are running out of poor and moderate income people who want to live in nice new mixed income housing.

I like what they have proposed myself. We already have one huge greenway that doesn't get used. People are drawn to water for some reason and always will be. It's going to be a lake by the looks of it so get used to it lol. Bring on the water I say.

How about creating a marina connecting the lake to the Mississippi? I was just talking with my dad and he said that is the one thing he would like to see. The closest marina is way up in Alton, and think about the contribution that a marina could bring to downtown Stl. St. Louis could then be a host to the largest boat show anywhere but Ft. lauderdale and Miami being located right on the Mississippi. The marina/lake would only be walking distance to Busch, Union Station, Savvis. I think a marina connected to the river would bring much more vibrancy and revenue base to the city than just the lake and greenway alone. Think of the downtowns that have marinas located by them such as San Francisco with the bay behind the right field.



In addition, being an avid boater, I know that most people who do the curcuit of cruising down the Mississippi to New Orleans, around florida, up the intracoastal, and down through the great lakes and back, start that entire journey from St. Louis. Perhaps "Port St. Louis" could be a nationally known marina for embarking on this trip as well as for pleasure boaters who just want to keep their boat there. It could even include some hotel or residential development, maybe a few mini-high rise condo buildings.



Peronally I think this is one of the best ideas I have ever heard for downtown Stl, even though it came from my dad. WHat are your guys thoughts?

I don't know about the fountain, but ya, I definately agree about having a good border. Looks like some areas will go right up to the water, and other areas leading up to the lake will be more like a stream.



Conceptual, but it gives an idea what they are thinking.

A good border is very important! Otherwise it looks fake. I hope they will avoid the surburban office park/drainage pond look. Also, a boardwalk in areas would be great and a pier. A section of the boardwalk should have a few restaurants, from fast food to high-end seafood & paddle boats for the kids, like Baltimore Inner Harbor. I like the lake and fountain in Orlando. When I visit Orlando, I skip the theme parks and head right to the lake area of downtown Orlando. In some sections, I would like a more formal setting with fountain & boardwalk and other sections more natural with marsh grasses, etc. The Marina idea is one of the best I have heard. Imagine sitting on a boat with the skyline of St. Louis as a backdrop.



I haven't been able to get a feel for the reality of this project. Is it on the way? Is it still a dream? Is it a dream that is really going to happen? What is the status?

Like Xing said, I'm not a fan of the rocks. I much prefer a more natural setting.

HERE'S WHAT WE SHOULD BE THINKING:







This is what I'm talking about. DebbieDoo is right, forget the carbon-copy of the suburban lake in the second photo from the renderings, they shouldn't even bother with the project if that's what it's going to look like. The goal should be something like the Charles River in Boston. Like someone else just said, people are naturally attracted to water. Obviously, this isn't really the case along the riverfront though.. but it's pretty much inaccessible. Debbie, I do disagree with you on the whole "mixed income housing" and "community garden" idea. That already exists in other areas throughout the city. This whole lake, pond, "river" idea would be a catalyst for the entire area. To be honest, I'm just scared of the day when Purina decides to pull up stakes in an area that, face it, isn't that attractive. It would be far more appealing for current businesses in the vicinity and would help ATTRACT future businesses from the County, other parts of the country, etc.