Brickline Greenway- Formerly Chouteau Greenway

gary kreie · PostApr 10, 2009#4262009-04-10T22:39+00:00

migueltejada wrote:Questions about this project that I would like to know is -

1. Who's responsible for the maintenance of the lake? Public, private, combination? Where does MSD come in?

2. How does the project propose to integrate with the surrounding areas, or will is be another virtual gated community like the BPV and TBD plans as originally conceived?

3. What enforcement measures will be taken to ensure any water traffic on the lake is respectful and appropriate? What additional police resources, if any, are required?

And so on

These questions seem minor. Oklahoma City didn't seem to have any problems answering these questions for its totally artificial canal. I expect the lake will have water taxis, like the OKC canal, and forest park row boats or paddle boats. Maybe an electric boat with a canopy that looks like the ones from the 1904 Worlds's Fair.

See this link

http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?p=149224#149224

goat314 · PostApr 17, 2009#4272009-04-17T01:39+00:00

Renderings from HOK (including map)

Map

View From Tucker?

New Renderings That Include Lumiere Place and Fountains

Sorry didn't have a good cropping program

Alex Ihnen · PostApr 17, 2009#4282009-04-17T02:26+00:00

On a PC? Use a program called "Paint" or download Paint.net

Better yet, download Picasa (for PC or Mac)

And seriously - who doesn't think the "Chouteau Park" on the map wouldn't be a sweet, sweet, sweet place for an MLS stadium?!?! Enough with the parks!!

the central scrutinizer · PostApr 17, 2009#4292009-04-17T02:28+00:00

goat314 wrote:Sorry didn't have a good cropping program

http://www.picnik.com

Alex Ihnen · PostApr 17, 2009#4302009-04-17T02:30+00:00

Anyone else notice the 21st street I-64 interchange has been replaced in the map? What else is new - in addition to all the new mid-size buildings? Looks like we have ourselves some dreamers over at HOK.

jakektu · PostApr 17, 2009#4312009-04-17T13:51+00:00

It looks like they bulldozed Eat-Rite for residential!

framer · PostApr 18, 2009#4322009-04-18T04:26+00:00

Highway 64 sticks out like a sore thumb.

I'm sure the highway's not going away for a long time (Big Dig, anyone?), so maybe some kind of design charrette could be held to think of ways to deal with it.

Alex Ihnen · PostApr 18, 2009#4332009-04-18T04:42+00:00

^ Yeah, I'd like to see buildings at some points along the southside of I-64. If the double-decker highway looms over the "greenway" it's not going to be so inviting.

gary kreie · PostApr 18, 2009#4342009-04-18T14:34+00:00

I notice a fairly short Ballpark Village in this rendering with only one medium size looking building. But a tall building on the West side of the stadium on land not owned by the Cardinals. Hmm. Also, the lake does not extend along ballpark across 7th street. Chouteau's landing is booming. I agree, I-64 needs to change. It would be easy to bury compared to the Big Dig. I thought there would be more buildings along the lake to pay for it. Also an arm of the lake jutting over to Kiener Plaza area as a short canal.

By the way, who owns parking garage East now. I could see turning the top of that into condo's with a view into the stadium.

Alex Ihnen · PostApr 18, 2009#4352009-04-18T17:12+00:00

^ Well, it is true that if BPV continues to sit while other land downtown (and there's a lot of it) sees mid-rise towers, etc. being built BPV may NEVER see a large tower.

gary kreie · PostApr 25, 2009#4362009-04-25T18:24+00:00

I went to the Cards Cubs game last night and parked in the big parking lot next to Al Hrabosky's. I don't know how much money that parking lot makes, but the tax records show it is appraised at $1.4 million. I wonder how that compares to what that foundation paid for the sculpture park land downtown in the Gateway Mall.

It is owned by Metropolitan Park and Recreation. This parking lot represents most of the Eastern Half of the lake in HOK's picture - the part East of the crossing railroad track.

I still think you could put the rail tracks at or just barely below the water surface and let the trains "walk on water" across the lake. Barriers under or at water level parallel to the tracks would keep boats off the track. Like this picture here in Houston:

PostApr 26, 2009#4372009-04-26T14:35+00:00

The Gateway Foundation is paying $30 Million for City Garden in the Gateway Mall.

Wouldn't it be great if their next project was purchase of the Parking Lot next to Al Hrabosky's for a couple of million $$s, and started work on Phase I of the Chouteau Pond. It could include contemporary sculputure and fountains and use water taxis to bring people to the ballpark from more distant parking lots. Bars like Al Hrabosky's could rebuild right up against the pond with wood decks out over the water. Someday it could feature trains skimming along the top of the water with a phase II, which would be kind of sculptural. I'm not sure buying the property and turning it into the East part of the lake would cost any more than City Park.

Two years ago I happened to be coming in to St. Louis from Chicago on Amtrak on opening day, and we went right along that track. The fans were out and awsome. This atmosphere of the pond could be like the picture below on game day where bar and restaurant decks hang over the water that leads up the baseball park on the end.

MattnSTL · PostApr 26, 2009#4382009-04-26T16:36+00:00

Great Rivers Greenway owns the parking lot. They bought it with the intention of using it for Chouteau's Pond when more funding becomes available. In the meantime, at least some parking revenue is going towards a worthy cause.

gary kreie · PostApr 26, 2009#4392009-04-26T18:29+00:00

Oh, yeah, I see online that Metropolitan Park & Recreation is another name for Great Rivers Greenway District. I had assumed Park was as-in car parking. So Gateway does own the big lot where most of the East lake would go. Looks like all the parcels along side it between the lot and the railroad track are owned by a company called Redburd, where Al Hrabosky's places are. Here are the two Greenway properties that make up the big parking lot.

http://stlcin.missouri.org/assessor/pop ... 0418000111

http://stlcin.missouri.org/assessor/pop ... 0418000071

PostSep 18, 2009#4402009-09-18T15:07+00:00

KMOX reported this morning that Governor Nixon requested recovery money from the Federal Government to develop Chouteau Lake and the Greenway. Governor Nixon characterized it as moving railroad tracks out of city center areas next to downtown.

goat314 · PostSep 18, 2009#4412009-09-18T18:24+00:00

That sounds like good news, do you have an article or soundbite? I wonder what will be the chances of us getting the funding. This project would really help transform the area.

PostSep 18, 2009#4422009-09-18T18:27+00:00

never mind: http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/buildi ... -projects/

1st time I felt Jay Nixon is doing something for the city.

matt drops the h · PostSep 18, 2009#4432009-09-18T19:09+00:00

Cross your fingers!

gary kreie · PostSep 18, 2009#4442009-09-18T19:34+00:00

This just makes a lot of sense for St. Louis. This land will be a lot more useful to the metro area as a lake and greenway to convince businesses that St. Louis is worth saving, rather than moving away or cutting back. It would do wonders for our image to have a lake downtown with water taxis, sailboats, and lakeside restaurants.

There are underutilized railyards all over St. Louis on the East and West sides of the river. We don't need a massive switching yard downtown.

Several other cities are in the process of converting downtown railyards to similar uses. Millenium Park in Chicago was built on top of a railyard which is still there.

Here are a few other railyard conversion plans I found on the web:

Sacremento:

http://www.prospermag.com/video/111-710

Austin:

http://www.railyard.org/

Los Angeles:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-97614999.html

New York:

urbz · PostSep 18, 2009#4452009-09-18T21:15+00:00

^a decent mention of St. Louis (along with Pittsburgh and others) in the Sacramento video. I hope we can restore some of the street grid in the process as well

tbspqr · PostSep 22, 2009#4462009-09-22T03:57+00:00

Railroads are always willing to deal - as long as it makes good business sense to them. UP knows how valuable this land is... it was stupid to publish these grandiose plans so far in advance - they see it as a way to ____ (fill in blank with infrastructure improvement they or the TRRA might need in the future). They would love for the gov't to get the Tiger Grant - they look nice for selling this prime piece of real estate - and they will get twice its monetary value and ten fold its business value back to fix their aging infrustrcutre.

Pacm39960 · PostApr 04, 2010#4472010-04-04T00:49+00:00

I havent really been following this project until recently. Does anyone see any movement on this. I agree that this would be a cool element to St Louis' landscape.

gary kreie · PostApr 04, 2010#4482010-04-04T01:17+00:00

Here is what it used to look like.

From the Missouri History Museum Shop.
http://mhsmuseumshop.org/viewofstlouisf ... rwild.aspx

And here is a video description of the old pond by Paul Shankman of Channel 11.
http://www.kplr11.com/news/kplrremember ... 7191.story

DaronDierkes · PostJun 13, 2010#4492010-06-13T07:49+00:00

In thinking about those strange parts of Forest Park that are cut off by I-64 like the area that was just given to FPSE, the area above SLUH, and Turtle Park, it does seem kind of weird that they just sit unused. They kind of line up with this map though,

What if those parcels were cobbled together into the Chouteau Greenway now and connecting the Hi-Point to the Grove and everything in between? Then with something established, development could go along Chouteau towards downtown. Or alternately it could tie into the path already existing adjacent to Skinker and connect to the Centennial Greenway at Wash U and on to the Katy Trail.

There are some problems with this idea, but really what's happening with those areas right now that would conflict with a bike trail?

PostJun 14, 2010#4502010-06-14T07:39+00:00

^I wrote a bit more on the thoughts mentioned above on my blog. In summary, connect Chouteau in FPSE through those trapped parcels of land to the tunnel under 64,

Then from there, connect to turtle park, the hi-pointe, the centennial greenway, the katy trail, and eventually downtown Kansas City.

Brickline Greenway- Formerly Chouteau Greenway

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