I'm sure the Alaskans are saying the same thing about the "St. Louis rail-yard mud puddle"
I doubt UP being a business, and a good and very profitable one at that, will be giving up any land for free let alone rebuild their track structure for the sake of St. Louis. Remember, they bought out Missouri Pacific a while back and in time closed out the DT coporate office. Their committment is too keep that rail line through DT filled with revenue generating coal trains.
What I'm curious about, is any of that supposedly assembled land under contract include UP property? I can only assume that Right of Way real estate transactions are very difficult. Especially with a rail line involved in interrstate commerce.
What I'm curious about, is any of that supposedly assembled land under contract include UP property? I can only assume that Right of Way real estate transactions are very difficult. Especially with a rail line involved in interrstate commerce.
TGE-ATW wrote:I'm sure the Alaskans are saying the same thing about the "St. Louis rail-yard mud puddle"
I do remember reading about the bridge to nowhere in a GQ article that was about the pork spending in Congress. In fact, Alaska gets twice the amount of money taken from gas taxes to fund their state projects than any other state.
$200 million for another "bridge to nowhere," which would lead from Anchorage, the state's largest city, to a rural port that has one tenant and a handful of homes. Total cost for the project has been estimated at upwards of $1.5 billion. Not even the Anchorage Chamber of Commerce wants it.
From: USA Today
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I love how Bush will call all the pork barrel irresponsible spending, only in that he needs the money for his war.
On the Greenway, from this portion of the article, I get that the railroad isn't a big part of it...yet.
On the Greenway, from this portion of the article, I get that the railroad isn't a big part of it...yet.
The proposed Chouteau Lake greenway covers nearly 200 acres and links the downtown riverfront to Forest Park with bike paths and landscaped areas. A 16-acre lake is planned south of the new Busch Stadium. Forty acres are planned for downtown, bordered by Union Pacific railroad tracks on the south, Highway 40 to the north, Seventh Street on the east and Tucker Boulevard on the west. Baron said he has about four fifths of the property in the development area under contract.
Umm, mods?TheWayoftheArch wrote:I love how Bush will call all the pork barrel irresponsible spending, only in that he needs the money for his war
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^ This mod thinks TWOTA made a great point- there is a double standard about pork barrel spending versus war spending in Washington.
The topic took this turn after Senator Bond tied $10 million in funding for the Chouteau Lake/Greenway proposal to the WRDA, which President Bush threatens to veto even though there seems to be a bottomless pit for deficit spending related to the war. What's wrong with pointing that out?
I'm not even sure how I feel about the WRDA, but I'm glad Senator Bond is working to secure federal funding for this proposal, which could eliminate a great barrier between downtown and the Near South Side and spur billions of dollars in new development.
There's a fine line between making a political comment based on current events around St. Louis and deliberately using a forum or thread to make an irrelevant point about a political issue. As long as we try hard not to cross that line, I don't think an innocuous comment like TWOTA's is going to derail discussion and polarize people. Most of us know how to agree to disagree on this forum. As long as the discussion doesn't get completely sidetracked, let's carry on in that spirit...
The topic took this turn after Senator Bond tied $10 million in funding for the Chouteau Lake/Greenway proposal to the WRDA, which President Bush threatens to veto even though there seems to be a bottomless pit for deficit spending related to the war. What's wrong with pointing that out?
I'm not even sure how I feel about the WRDA, but I'm glad Senator Bond is working to secure federal funding for this proposal, which could eliminate a great barrier between downtown and the Near South Side and spur billions of dollars in new development.
There's a fine line between making a political comment based on current events around St. Louis and deliberately using a forum or thread to make an irrelevant point about a political issue. As long as we try hard not to cross that line, I don't think an innocuous comment like TWOTA's is going to derail discussion and polarize people. Most of us know how to agree to disagree on this forum. As long as the discussion doesn't get completely sidetracked, let's carry on in that spirit...
^The comment is clearly baiting. Just because you agree with it, does not make it less so.
A. The majority of Americans (and Congress) supported the war at it's inception, so calling it his war is just plain ignorant, and an obvious attempt to interject a political opinion that is completely irrelevant to the topic.
2. "Pork barrel spending" and spending for the war are not the same thing, regardless of your political views. If you think spending money on the war is a waste, then fine, but that doesn't make it "pork barrel spending". This makes me think you don't really understand the meaning of the phrase (see definition).
TheWayoftheArch wrote:I love how Bush will call all the pork barrel irresponsible spending, only in that he needs the money for his war
A. The majority of Americans (and Congress) supported the war at it's inception, so calling it his war is just plain ignorant, and an obvious attempt to interject a political opinion that is completely irrelevant to the topic.
2. "Pork barrel spending" and spending for the war are not the same thing, regardless of your political views. If you think spending money on the war is a waste, then fine, but that doesn't make it "pork barrel spending". This makes me think you don't really understand the meaning of the phrase (see definition).
pork barrel
n. Slang
A government project or appropriation that yields jobs or other benefits to a specific locale and patronage opportunities to its political representative.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved
The war could be characterized as pork barrel spending if you consider that it is making special interests like the defense industry and companies like Haliburton (which have strong ties to many of the war's strongest supporters) rich(er).
Anyhoo.
There is a huge amount of fill that has been deposited west of the Compton overpass near the intersection with Chouteau. It is probably 4-5 feet deep and spread over an area of about 1/2 an acre. It is essentially blocking access to a number of quonset huts in that sh*tty industrial area, which implies that the buildings are no longer being used (though I know they were used until recently). Could this fill be the beginning of something? And, does the fact that whomever was using those buildings has apparently vacated imply that the land has been purchased for Chouteau and his mud-puddle?
Anyhoo.
There is a huge amount of fill that has been deposited west of the Compton overpass near the intersection with Chouteau. It is probably 4-5 feet deep and spread over an area of about 1/2 an acre. It is essentially blocking access to a number of quonset huts in that sh*tty industrial area, which implies that the buildings are no longer being used (though I know they were used until recently). Could this fill be the beginning of something? And, does the fact that whomever was using those buildings has apparently vacated imply that the land has been purchased for Chouteau and his mud-puddle?
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jlblues wrote:^The comment is clearly baiting. Just because you agree with it, does not make it less so.
I don't see it as baiting, and whether I agree with it is irrelevant.
Bush has made the Iraq War the signature issue of his administration. To use your words, it's "just plain ignorant" to pretend otherwise.
And while I appreciate your effort to enlighten me, I know the difference between pork barrel spending and war spending- I just happen to think they're equally foolish. I fixed my initial comment to reflect this. (I'm glad to see Senator Bond pushing for federal funding for the Chouteau Lake plans, but I'm actually inclined to agree with those that think the WRDA is a porkbarrel project until I learn more about it.)
If you have any more points you'd like to address pertaining to spending priorities in Washington, let's move this discussion to PMs please.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_USA
No bid contracts to a private company from our government, is just as wasteful as a $200 million bridge to nowhere. No bid contracts should never be given out, particularly when you're discussing taxpayer dollars.
But $10 million towards the Chouteau lake is something that I would consider a good investment in any part of the United States, provided it's an underserved urban area. It has an opportunity to provide a tax base of business and residential to an area that essentially a giant vacant lot.
No bid contracts to a private company from our government, is just as wasteful as a $200 million bridge to nowhere. No bid contracts should never be given out, particularly when you're discussing taxpayer dollars.
But $10 million towards the Chouteau lake is something that I would consider a good investment in any part of the United States, provided it's an underserved urban area. It has an opportunity to provide a tax base of business and residential to an area that essentially a giant vacant lot.
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trent wrote:But $10 million towards the Chouteau lake is something that I would consider a good investment in any part of the United States, provided it's an underserved urban area. It has an opportunity to provide a tax base of business and residential to an area that essentially a giant vacant lot.
That's what sucks about spending bills. Generally, the fiscal conservative in me says something this bloated deserves to die because of its largesse, but then there are always individual projects like the Chouteau's Pond funding proposal that are sound long-term investments. $10 million is a drop in the bucket for a project that could bring literally billions of dollars in new development and bridge the gap between downtown and the Near South Side.
Not trying to ruffle any feathers, but the above is exactly why people trying to find out new info on projects have to sift through countless pages of useless discussion, while constructive things like TGE-ATW's post above are overlooked. Sad, since he's actually trying to update everyone on something that could possibly signify some sort of movement on the property. I'm not saying there isn't a place for it, but bickering just drags this further from the topic.
Hopefully reposting this will get things back on track:
Hopefully reposting this will get things back on track:
TGE-ATW wrote:There is a huge amount of fill that has been deposited west of the Compton overpass near the intersection with Chouteau. It is probably 4-5 feet deep and spread over an area of about 1/2 an acre. It is essentially blocking access to a number of quonset huts in that sh*tty industrial area, which implies that the buildings are no longer being used (though I know they were used until recently). Could this fill be the beginning of something? And, does the fact that whomever was using those buildings has apparently vacated imply that the land has been purchased for Chouteau and his mud-puddle?
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I seriously doubt that any dirt is being moved for this project. Compton is also much further west than the scope of the poject seems to be focused for now.
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Whoa, Nelly!
I did not write anything with the intent to bait. I would think its safe to say I have pretty much never baited anyone (except for cadascoram) on this forum for my lengthy time here, and generally, you will note, stay out of the political threads, or threads that turn political.
While I'm good for a wise crack from time to time I never egg anyone on...at least on purpose. I imagine my rapier wit and delightful sarcasm are sometimes likely skewered during their trip through CyberSpace.
That said, the property Baron has contract options on seems to be directly south of the Stadium west to Tucker.
I'm still impressed he has that much assembles already.
I did not write anything with the intent to bait. I would think its safe to say I have pretty much never baited anyone (except for cadascoram) on this forum for my lengthy time here, and generally, you will note, stay out of the political threads, or threads that turn political.
While I'm good for a wise crack from time to time I never egg anyone on...at least on purpose. I imagine my rapier wit and delightful sarcasm are sometimes likely skewered during their trip through CyberSpace.
That said, the property Baron has contract options on seems to be directly south of the Stadium west to Tucker.
I'm still impressed he has that much assembles already.
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TheWayoftheArch wrote:I imagine my rapier wit and delightful sarcasm are sometimes likely skewered during their trip through CyberSpace.
No problemo- misinterpreted attempts at wit and sarcasm are among the many hazards posed by the Internets.
(Sorry, I couldn't help myself but to say that word the W way!)
Anyway, to respond to TGE's observation, I'm not sure what the activity west of Compton Avenue is exactly, but like Grover, I can't imagine that it has anything to do with the plans for Chouteau Lake at this point.
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Bush... his war.... pork... hillary clinton... urban st louis... internet forums... tax payer dollars... blah blah blah... cmon guys. lets not be such dorks and discuss the lake district.
How do you think this will affect the area between seventh and broadway south of 64? I hate the dead zone from the stadium to Broadway & Cerre. If the land acquired for this project is bounded by seventh on the east, I would hope that it's influence would spur development around it and put some infill on all the lots south of the stadium.
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I hope they change the name back to Chouteau Pond, the original name of the old body of water in this location. I think it would be cool to refer to a restaurant on "the pond" and everone would know what you meant. Lake is just a more modern "developer" kind of word. The XXX at XXX Lakes.
Its kind of like "Center". Since about 1970, everything enclosed became a center. Scottrade Center, America's Center, etc. The old name used to be "Hall". Like Powell Hall, or Carnegie Hall.
So going back to the more pastoral sounding "Pond" would get back to history and get away from generic characterless words like "Lake".
If they restore Chouteau Pond, are they eligible for any restoration tax breaks from the State of Missouri?
Its kind of like "Center". Since about 1970, everything enclosed became a center. Scottrade Center, America's Center, etc. The old name used to be "Hall". Like Powell Hall, or Carnegie Hall.
So going back to the more pastoral sounding "Pond" would get back to history and get away from generic characterless words like "Lake".
If they restore Chouteau Pond, are they eligible for any restoration tax breaks from the State of Missouri?
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I hereby propose "Chouteau's Bog"
sounds cool - and would really help out the nearby haunted houses
sounds cool - and would really help out the nearby haunted houses
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wheelscomp wrote:Bush... his war.... pork... hillary clinton... urban st louis... internet forums... tax payer dollars... blah blah blah... cmon guys. lets not be such dorks and discuss the lake district.
So you're saying we're dorks if we discuss the lake district?
Fear not, because as you can see in the most recent posts, we are back on topic! Carry on...
I typed "Chouteau's Pond" into my random suburban shopping center/housing development name generator and this is what it came up with:
"The Shoppes at Chouteau Crossing"
"The Crossing at Olde Chouteau's Ponde"
"The Pines at Chouteau's Gables, Phase II"
"I have become self aware, mankind is doomed"
"The Village at Chouteau's Pond Estates"
"Chouteau Estates at Ponde View"
Take your pick, any of them would be great............except for the 4th one, not sure what that means. must be a glitch.
"The Shoppes at Chouteau Crossing"
"The Crossing at Olde Chouteau's Ponde"
"The Pines at Chouteau's Gables, Phase II"
"I have become self aware, mankind is doomed"
"The Village at Chouteau's Pond Estates"
"Chouteau Estates at Ponde View"
Take your pick, any of them would be great............except for the 4th one, not sure what that means. must be a glitch.
Either of the two that spell pond with an 'e' work for me.
I think the Pond/Lake/Body of water called Chouteau is a great way to connect much of the near southside, including making the area between 7th and Broadway relevant, and bringing the Landing even more relevent.
I think the Pond/Lake/Body of water called Chouteau is a great way to connect much of the near southside, including making the area between 7th and Broadway relevant, and bringing the Landing even more relevent.
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TGE-ATW wrote:"I have become self aware, mankind is doomed"
"............ not sure what that means. must be a glitch.
I think I may have found the answer>
British Skynet satellite launched
The British military's Skynet 5A satellite has been launched into space from Kourou in French Guiana.
The spacecraft is part of a £3.6bn system that will deliver secure, high-bandwidth communications for UK and allied forces.
more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6434773.stm
Say hello to your new master:
