^ When you see something like the sign above you need to get a red permanent marker or red paint and cover it up. Don't be lazy when it comes to keeping your neighborhood nice. It's not enough to sit back and say, "gee, I wish someone wouldn't have done that." After all, how long would it take to fix the sign above? 10 minutes? Maybe 5?
- 2,093
well it sounds like the cops know which street to keep an eye on. I would say we need to have all eyes on that location and if someone so much as tosses a candy wrapper the SWAT team comes in. I do wish there was an added level of prosecution when it comes to emerging neighborhoods. Say if someone would normally get 3-5 for breaking and entering, if you did so in a neighborhood like BPW in which so many are trying to get back on its feet it's an automatic 5-7 yr. sentence or something.
Write or email the mayor. Seriously. I know several people who have emailed him recently and have been surprised by the fact that their words went directly to his desk. Write him and explain your frustration. Explain how you are part of the rebirth of St. Louis and how it is critical that people like you not be scared off. Explain that the good people of this city are ***** fed up with the violence and how spinning and interpreting the crime stats to the media doesn't change the fact that lots of people are being killed in the very neighborhoods that are/were attracting lots of re-investment and new residents. TGS had two random and brutal killings about two weeks ago, now its BPW. Tomorrow its the Grove. Get mad and get active.
- 11K
What are you planning in the Grove!? j/k
I'm not sure the killings in the TG area were random. On a sidenote, there will be approximately 500 homicides in NYC this year, a 50-year low. Of those less than 20% have been deemed to be random. I would imagine that number holds true here as well. So if we have 150 homicides, it's likely that 30 are random. Of course it's too many, but it's also good to know.
I'm not sure the killings in the TG area were random. On a sidenote, there will be approximately 500 homicides in NYC this year, a 50-year low. Of those less than 20% have been deemed to be random. I would imagine that number holds true here as well. So if we have 150 homicides, it's likely that 30 are random. Of course it's too many, but it's also good to know.
Grover, a 70 something year old man was knifed (and not robbed) while walking from his car to a friend's house. The other guy was shot dead, then had his wallet taken while he was on the ground. One seems totally random, the other was motivated by robbery. I consider murder motivated by robbery to be random because the perp almost certainly doesn't know the victim, and the victim didn't do anything but show up at the wrong place at the wrong time. Also, the odds of getting murdered anywhere are pretty low, but it seems like the odds of having several people murdered every few weeks in our area of south city are pretty high. We don't need spin, I don't really even think we need perspective. We need concerted and cooperative effort on the part of residents, city government, and police.
- 11K
TGE-ATW wrote:I consider murder motivated by robbery to be random because the perp almost certainly doesn't know the victim.
Maybe. I'm saying that these absolutely weren't random, just that most murders are not and we aren't sure about these.
TGE-ATW wrote:I don't really even think we need perspective.
Well, there you go.
- 1,517
TGE-ATW wrote:We don't need spin, I don't really even think we need perspective. We need concerted and cooperative effort on the part of residents, city government, and police.
We also need a reform of federal criminal justice policies. Prevention is key. Such reform should be forever married to public school reform and a new drug policy that makes illegal markets less financially appealing than the "straight path."
I'm still not sold that they were randon either, but we'll have to wait and see. Both seem a little odd (time of day, etc.) to be automatically assumed random. And just because the punk shooter took a wallet doesn't necessarily mean that robbery was what started the incident/fight/altercation.
Like I said, we'll have to wait and see, but I'm not convinced.
This s**t does need to stop, though, no matter the cause. Even if all of these events are happening between people who know each other, they are still happening in our city and too close to home.
Like I said, we'll have to wait and see, but I'm not convinced.
This s**t does need to stop, though, no matter the cause. Even if all of these events are happening between people who know each other, they are still happening in our city and too close to home.
Re: the "Stop Snitching" sign.
So I'm supposed to elect to follow some kind of loyalty to those who demonstrate bad behavior over helping keep my neighborhood safe from those same thugs? What a load of crap. If I see someone break into a car, I sure as hell call the police. What's the coherent rationale for not doing so?
So I'm supposed to elect to follow some kind of loyalty to those who demonstrate bad behavior over helping keep my neighborhood safe from those same thugs? What a load of crap. If I see someone break into a car, I sure as hell call the police. What's the coherent rationale for not doing so?
- 11K
julia wrote:Re: the "Stop Snitching" sign.
So I'm supposed to elect to follow some kind of loyalty to those who demonstrate bad behavior over helping keep my neighborhood safe from those same thugs? What a load of crap. If I see someone break into a car, I sure as hell call the police. What's the coherent rationale for not doing so?
The cops won't protect you, only your people (homies) can protect you on the streets - that's who you owe your loyalty to. Just passing along what I've heard.
Matt Drops The H wrote:So many of us cite very valid, but self-serving reasons for not "pioneering" into struggling neighborhoods
While I/we share your passion for out city, this seems a little condemning of those not willing to share their neighborhoods with these hoods. Until our society comes to terms with this trash I am a little hesitant to blame friends and family for hunkering down in the burbs.
I've heard just about enough of the first cause stuff.....for now my solutions are long prison terms without parole for predatory violent crimes (similar to the federal code which mandates serving full sentences), juveniles subject to the adult code for violent crimes, and lastly time. For only with time will these guys practice natural attrition by killing themselves off. The only good, but unfortunate, news of the last 2 weeks is at least 3 bad guys are goners.
(I am obviously excluding the young women shot in the head from this rant, may she rest in peace).
Chin UP BPWer's.
- 11K
^ don't forget that family and friends ARE society.
IMO - the key is education and jobs. Smart people with opportunities rarely kill others.
IMO - the key is education and jobs. Smart people with opportunities rarely kill others.
Grover wrote:^ don't forget that family and friends ARE society.
Agreed..........and I surely wouldn't want them living in BPW right now.........
Grover wrote:IMO - the key is education and jobs. Smart people with opportunities rarely kill others.
Likewise agreed..............Smart people. These ain't them.
- 11K
^ My point was really that our friends and family are society - so if you don't want them living in BPW, do you not think anyone should be living there? I'm not really trying to call you out, I don't think I would recommend that my family move there, but if someone's family doesn't, nothing will change.
I know, I know. I guess I was just being a little testy. Isn't that what these anonymous forums are for?
What I took a little more exception to was Matt of the F Bomb scolding people for their "self serving" choices in life. Which I include to be living in a safe and sound environment and being entitled to a sense that one's family is safe at night.
Truly we all want BPW and all the other marginal nab's to be resurrected. With that in mind I would encourage your reading this link about North County crime fighting.
http://members.boardhost.com/stlouiscop ... 02946.html
Hey I'm gettin' pretty good at these links!
What I took a little more exception to was Matt of the F Bomb scolding people for their "self serving" choices in life. Which I include to be living in a safe and sound environment and being entitled to a sense that one's family is safe at night.
Truly we all want BPW and all the other marginal nab's to be resurrected. With that in mind I would encourage your reading this link about North County crime fighting.
http://members.boardhost.com/stlouiscop ... 02946.html
Hey I'm gettin' pretty good at these links!
- 1,517
It seems like a condemnation, but it is not. Note the term "very valid."
Like it or not, a predominantly suburban nation is physically formatted in such a way that the self and the family are the only concerns one must have. I would never condemn individuals for taking advantage of considerable safety and good public education.
I do condemn civic decline encouraged by anti-urban formatting of society, which is a policy that can and should be condemned, IMO. I am not in the business of taking individuals to task as much as the policies and attitudes that fuel these decisions.
The snippy attitude was unnecessary. What I said should stand, and should offend no one. I am thankful for all of those people who decide that urbanity and city life is so highly valued that concerns for safety, for example, take a back seat. I have been in that position and I will be there again when I return to St. Louis. This is community-bettering, and not self-bettering--a difficult task in 21st century America.
Like it or not, a predominantly suburban nation is physically formatted in such a way that the self and the family are the only concerns one must have. I would never condemn individuals for taking advantage of considerable safety and good public education.
I do condemn civic decline encouraged by anti-urban formatting of society, which is a policy that can and should be condemned, IMO. I am not in the business of taking individuals to task as much as the policies and attitudes that fuel these decisions.
The snippy attitude was unnecessary. What I said should stand, and should offend no one. I am thankful for all of those people who decide that urbanity and city life is so highly valued that concerns for safety, for example, take a back seat. I have been in that position and I will be there again when I return to St. Louis. This is community-bettering, and not self-bettering--a difficult task in 21st century America.
- 2,093
" I am thankful for all of those people who decide that urbanity and city life is so highly valued that concerns for safety, for example, take a back seat."
Why should concerns for safety take a back seat?
Believe me, if safety is not a top concern for a neighborhood the only non-thugs who will tolerate it there are the pure pioneer types.
I agree that those who are paralyzed by fear of crime and search out the nth degree of safety will not be happy in city neighborhoods. But those who want to see a vibrant area revitalized *and* want to increase security are the kinds of folks we desperately need in up and coming neighborhoods.
The only ones we don't want there are the thugs. If they don't kill each other off send 'em off to big boy prison until 2055.
Why should concerns for safety take a back seat?
Believe me, if safety is not a top concern for a neighborhood the only non-thugs who will tolerate it there are the pure pioneer types.
I agree that those who are paralyzed by fear of crime and search out the nth degree of safety will not be happy in city neighborhoods. But those who want to see a vibrant area revitalized *and* want to increase security are the kinds of folks we desperately need in up and coming neighborhoods.
The only ones we don't want there are the thugs. If they don't kill each other off send 'em off to big boy prison until 2055.
- 57
This was posted on the BPW neighborhood list serve:
BPW has had increased police presence in the hot spots. That is evident by driving down Wyoming and looking up virtually any 3200 block (south of Wyoming ), especially the 3200 block of Ohio .
Other than these few hot spots, the neighborhood as a whole has been fairly “quiet" for the last few years. Now, when there is an issue in a single block area, from a property that has been a nuisance property since July, it seems that things have gotten worse. This is untrue, but only a wake call that our job is not complete.
Many properties, like this one which has been a nuisance property since new tenants moved in, are on the radar scope. This is why it is so important for residents to report ANYTHING out of the ordinary. If more than 1-2 people are standing at the front of a house or on the corner and they look “suspicious”, call. If you think “Should I call?” You should call.
We know that that numbers in the police force are at an all time low, that is why it so much more important for residents to step up and “police” their own blocks. If the most you can do is call…then CALL. If you want to walk around your block with several other neighbors, then WALK. If you only wish to sit on your porch, then SIT on your porch and watch.
Crime happens all over the metro area. We’ve been fighting this fight for a number of years and the Neighborhood Association will not stop. Yes, these most recent issues do take a bit of wind out of our sails, but we will not give up!
As a reminder:
- Weed & Seed meetings are held the 2nd Thursday of each month – 6:30p, 2832 Arsenal ( Five Star Senior Center ) with the 3rd District Public Affairs meeting following at 7:30p.
- Neighborhood membership meetings are held the 3rd Thursday of each month (except for Dec when the potluck is on Dec 13th) – 7p, 2832 Arsenal ( Five Star Senior Center )
We can meet and talk about the issues “…until the cows come home”, but without action nothing gets done. The more eyes are out on the streets, the less the bad activity will want to be there.
Things residents can do:
1. LIGHT up your area as much as possible by turning on your porch lights or install yard lights.
2. If you see street lights that are out or “blinkers” (flicker off and on), note the address where the light is located and call Citizen’s Service Bureau – 622-4800.
3. If you see people hanging, call 231-1212.
4. If you see illegal activity, people (even kids) impeding or stopping traffic, call 911
5. If you see a broken window, call Citizen’s Service Bureau – 622-4800 with the address and complaint
6. If you see someone illegally dump (construction waste, overflowing dumpsters, etc), call Citizen’s Service Bureau – 622-4800.
These few things help to keep OUR neighborhood cleaner and safer and will be resistance to the “bad” activity.
Concerning the issues of the past week, there is already action in motion to deal with the property. Being proactive is our goal, many times we have to be reactive. The perspective of the “Broken Window” effect is a mindset that has been around for many years.
The focus for the 2008 Board is Quality of Life. This focus will address the “broken window” effect in Benton Park West. This action can not be just from the Board or a handful of residents, it will take as many residents as possible. Look for information in upcoming issues of The Porch Review of what the "Broken Window" effect is all about and how WE can use the perspective in the plan to get rid of the "bad" elements.
I know that this list serve has only a small percentage of residents, but I wish to say THANKS to all who have endured through the years. I truly believe that we are near the end of the fight. I don’t believe that the fight will ever be over. If we think we are finished, that will leave an opportunity for the “bad” to creep back in.
If we give up, THEY WIN….and that is the LAST thing we want.
Thanks again for those who have fought the fight and still fighting. Thanks to those who will come after us and continue the fight to keep the streets clean of trash and problem properties/people.
It is OUR responsibility to take the neighborhood back!
BPW has had increased police presence in the hot spots. That is evident by driving down Wyoming and looking up virtually any 3200 block (south of Wyoming ), especially the 3200 block of Ohio .
Other than these few hot spots, the neighborhood as a whole has been fairly “quiet" for the last few years. Now, when there is an issue in a single block area, from a property that has been a nuisance property since July, it seems that things have gotten worse. This is untrue, but only a wake call that our job is not complete.
Many properties, like this one which has been a nuisance property since new tenants moved in, are on the radar scope. This is why it is so important for residents to report ANYTHING out of the ordinary. If more than 1-2 people are standing at the front of a house or on the corner and they look “suspicious”, call. If you think “Should I call?” You should call.
We know that that numbers in the police force are at an all time low, that is why it so much more important for residents to step up and “police” their own blocks. If the most you can do is call…then CALL. If you want to walk around your block with several other neighbors, then WALK. If you only wish to sit on your porch, then SIT on your porch and watch.
Crime happens all over the metro area. We’ve been fighting this fight for a number of years and the Neighborhood Association will not stop. Yes, these most recent issues do take a bit of wind out of our sails, but we will not give up!
As a reminder:
- Weed & Seed meetings are held the 2nd Thursday of each month – 6:30p, 2832 Arsenal ( Five Star Senior Center ) with the 3rd District Public Affairs meeting following at 7:30p.
- Neighborhood membership meetings are held the 3rd Thursday of each month (except for Dec when the potluck is on Dec 13th) – 7p, 2832 Arsenal ( Five Star Senior Center )
We can meet and talk about the issues “…until the cows come home”, but without action nothing gets done. The more eyes are out on the streets, the less the bad activity will want to be there.
Things residents can do:
1. LIGHT up your area as much as possible by turning on your porch lights or install yard lights.
2. If you see street lights that are out or “blinkers” (flicker off and on), note the address where the light is located and call Citizen’s Service Bureau – 622-4800.
3. If you see people hanging, call 231-1212.
4. If you see illegal activity, people (even kids) impeding or stopping traffic, call 911
5. If you see a broken window, call Citizen’s Service Bureau – 622-4800 with the address and complaint
6. If you see someone illegally dump (construction waste, overflowing dumpsters, etc), call Citizen’s Service Bureau – 622-4800.
These few things help to keep OUR neighborhood cleaner and safer and will be resistance to the “bad” activity.
Concerning the issues of the past week, there is already action in motion to deal with the property. Being proactive is our goal, many times we have to be reactive. The perspective of the “Broken Window” effect is a mindset that has been around for many years.
The focus for the 2008 Board is Quality of Life. This focus will address the “broken window” effect in Benton Park West. This action can not be just from the Board or a handful of residents, it will take as many residents as possible. Look for information in upcoming issues of The Porch Review of what the "Broken Window" effect is all about and how WE can use the perspective in the plan to get rid of the "bad" elements.
I know that this list serve has only a small percentage of residents, but I wish to say THANKS to all who have endured through the years. I truly believe that we are near the end of the fight. I don’t believe that the fight will ever be over. If we think we are finished, that will leave an opportunity for the “bad” to creep back in.
If we give up, THEY WIN….and that is the LAST thing we want.
Thanks again for those who have fought the fight and still fighting. Thanks to those who will come after us and continue the fight to keep the streets clean of trash and problem properties/people.
It is OUR responsibility to take the neighborhood back!
- 11K
Good stuff, but this confused me:
I truly believe that we are near the end of the fight. I don’t believe that the fight will ever be over.
- 1,517
southsidepride wrote:" I am thankful for all of those people who decide that urbanity and city life is so highly valued that concerns for safety, for example, take a back seat."
Why should concerns for safety take a back seat?
Believe me, if safety is not a top concern for a neighborhood the only non-thugs who will tolerate it there are the pure pioneer types.
I agree that those who are paralyzed by fear of crime and search out the nth degree of safety will not be happy in city neighborhoods. But those who want to see a vibrant area revitalized *and* want to increase security are the kinds of folks we desperately need in up and coming neighborhoods.
The only ones we don't want there are the thugs. If they don't kill each other off send 'em off to big boy prison until 2055.
You have mistaken me. Neighborhoods should of course be concerned about safety.
Individuals who choose to locate in high crime areas (let's say College Hill on the north side, or Gravois Park on the south side) clearly value the architecture, urbanity, or convenience of these neighborhoods despite their crime problems. As such, they are showing a dedication to these neighborhoods that many in society are not able to. I was merely expressing my support for this activity and my hope that others will make the leap.
It is not my desire to live in a stable community. I would rather see a neighborhood to its renaissance, whether I am a direct or indirect part in that will simply depend on what happens in my life and where I choose to locate. I can tell you that when I do return, it will likely be in such a neighborhood. I do have tentative plans to move in to the Academy neighborhood just north of the Central West End, for example. But Benton Park West is on my list as well.
MDTH, I know where you are coming from and feel the same way. Sometimes I'm not so sure whether I'd rather live in a Soulard or an Old North(luckily I got some time to decide 
), but I don't think safety should ever, ever take a back seat. I love cities and I love architecture and I love history and I love people, but some things are just more important than whether you're front door opens up onto the street and whether you can touch your neighbor's house with your back against your own. Personally, I feel confident that I would be able to make the leap into such a neighborhood, but I could never blame anybody or think any less of anybody if they choose not too. Also, if I had a family, I don't know if I would have anywhere near the confidence in making such a leap.
Come to think of it, I think I just said the exact same thing as you...oh well.
), but I don't think safety should ever, ever take a back seat. I love cities and I love architecture and I love history and I love people, but some things are just more important than whether you're front door opens up onto the street and whether you can touch your neighbor's house with your back against your own. Personally, I feel confident that I would be able to make the leap into such a neighborhood, but I could never blame anybody or think any less of anybody if they choose not too. Also, if I had a family, I don't know if I would have anywhere near the confidence in making such a leap.Come to think of it, I think I just said the exact same thing as you...oh well.
- 11K
So if you're anticipating making the leap yourself aren't you not putting safety first? Of course safety is one consideration, but we considered many types of convenience, commuting time, shopping/dining options and safety. So if there's a 1/100,000 chance of me being mugged in Kirkwood and a 1/90,000 chance where I am now (completely made up numbers btw) I may choose to live where I can commute by metro or walk to work. Not to mention that it's dangerous to drive.