Does anyone have any scoop on what is going on in bentonpark west? I moved out of state, and I know he was getting really bad for a while, but I wondered if it is starting to turn around yet? thanks guys
Yes, Benton Park West is improving. I moved to the neighborhood in 2004 and my house was the only rehabbed house on the block and I lived next to 3 vacant houses. Now all of those house have been or are in the process of being renovated and all have been sold. Several other houses on the block have been rehabbed and sold. It is happening everywhere in the neighborhood. A new construction "green" house was built here and is for sale.
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whats up with the green house? solar power? or whats the deal. do you know the address?
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EcoUrban Homes has built a few homes in the Benton Park West and Tower Grove East neighborhoods.
Here is the link to their website
http://www.ecourbanhomes.com/
This is my first time posting, so I hope I got it right.
Here is the link to their website
http://www.ecourbanhomes.com/
This is my first time posting, so I hope I got it right.
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Benton Park West just had the first For Sale House Tour in it's history. There were over 150 people on the tour. This is not the "Parlour/Garden" tour that most neighborhoods do to showcase the homes, this is a marketing perspective. All involved from realtors with open houses to the 3rd District police, to residents, to organizers all have stated that the Tour was a success.
Rehab is still occuring, however, due to the real estate market the massive rehabbing has slowed down.
The streets are cleaner as more residents are stepping out to pickup. Even if the trash isn't their trash.
More collaboration with surrounding neighborhoods in 2007 with additional collaboration planned for 2008.
All that said, it can't be said that there aren't still a few "hot spots". These spots are noted not only by residents, but the Neighborhood Association, Neighborhood Stabilization Officers and the 3rd District Police Department.
No neighborhood is completely problem free. But, what a collaboration of the above groups can accomplish is to have as few problems as possible.
Lastly, looking into the future:
Great news on the continued success of gaining a Dog Park.
More residents are seeing the need to "step up".
The membership base of the neighborhood association continues to grow.
Virtually 95% of the residents you might poll will tell you that BPW is much better than it was even a year ago...and so much better than it was three years ago.
Checkout the website: www.bentonparkwest.org to find out what is going on. The website is updated as much as possible, but also is under a re-visiting project to update and add additional pages.
For any additional information or issues/concerns call the neighborhood office at 314-771-0803.
Rehab is still occuring, however, due to the real estate market the massive rehabbing has slowed down.
The streets are cleaner as more residents are stepping out to pickup. Even if the trash isn't their trash.
More collaboration with surrounding neighborhoods in 2007 with additional collaboration planned for 2008.
All that said, it can't be said that there aren't still a few "hot spots". These spots are noted not only by residents, but the Neighborhood Association, Neighborhood Stabilization Officers and the 3rd District Police Department.
No neighborhood is completely problem free. But, what a collaboration of the above groups can accomplish is to have as few problems as possible.
Lastly, looking into the future:
Great news on the continued success of gaining a Dog Park.
More residents are seeing the need to "step up".
The membership base of the neighborhood association continues to grow.
Virtually 95% of the residents you might poll will tell you that BPW is much better than it was even a year ago...and so much better than it was three years ago.
Checkout the website: www.bentonparkwest.org to find out what is going on. The website is updated as much as possible, but also is under a re-visiting project to update and add additional pages.
For any additional information or issues/concerns call the neighborhood office at 314-771-0803.
We drove through BPW Saturday evening, 5'ish. I don't mean to rain on the parade but there is a lot of wishful thinking here. Those dude's on the corner didn't appear to belong to the Rehabbers Club. Lot's of wonderful working class housing, but that in my opinion is what is will always be.
A lot of the same thinking applies to BP proper. Living in BP 15 years ago I used to love the stories the old timers told. The general gist was this neighborhood is what it is and always will be.
A lot of the same thinking applies to BP proper. Living in BP 15 years ago I used to love the stories the old timers told. The general gist was this neighborhood is what it is and always will be.
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Pardon me for being blunt, but let me ask:
Because you drove through a neighborhood and saw presumably non-white, non-middle class people standing on street corners, there has not been nor will be progress?
First of all, I know what you're saying and won't bludgeon you with PC rhetoric, so consider yourself lucky.
I'm wont to do that.
Secondly, the progress of Benton Park West is real, even if slow in comparison to other neighborhoods that have come up recently. I remember when--very recently, too--vacancies were an absolutely overwhelming problem. I at one time would have predicted a fate for BPW similar to now halfway demolished neighborhoods on the north side, since by all demographic indicators, Benton Park West was/is facing similar problems.
With the coming of fervent rehabbers and dedicated residents, and the strengthening of longtime residents' control over their blocks, BPW is seeing a turnaround. I am confident.
I believe one barrier to its renaissance is the lack of a commercial stretch in the center of the neighborhood. The way the neighborhood is defined, it is sandwiched between large streets (Gravois and Jefferson) whose commercial areas are only on the periphery of the neighborhood. Forest Park Southeast, on the other hand, has a well-traveled and up and coming commercial corridor in Manchester, and it's becoming the posterchild of the St. Louis upswing. After all, FPSE was not all that different from BPW even four years ago. Now, though there are some issues with a rapid spike in home values, the area is seeing income/race/age diversity that it hasn't enjoyed in years.
Be patient with BPW, as its neighborhood identity is a bit harder to tease out than a less off the beaten path 'hood like FPSE, aka the Grove. It will very soon be on the radar for its own brand of diversity.
Because you drove through a neighborhood and saw presumably non-white, non-middle class people standing on street corners, there has not been nor will be progress?
First of all, I know what you're saying and won't bludgeon you with PC rhetoric, so consider yourself lucky.
I'm wont to do that.Secondly, the progress of Benton Park West is real, even if slow in comparison to other neighborhoods that have come up recently. I remember when--very recently, too--vacancies were an absolutely overwhelming problem. I at one time would have predicted a fate for BPW similar to now halfway demolished neighborhoods on the north side, since by all demographic indicators, Benton Park West was/is facing similar problems.
With the coming of fervent rehabbers and dedicated residents, and the strengthening of longtime residents' control over their blocks, BPW is seeing a turnaround. I am confident.
I believe one barrier to its renaissance is the lack of a commercial stretch in the center of the neighborhood. The way the neighborhood is defined, it is sandwiched between large streets (Gravois and Jefferson) whose commercial areas are only on the periphery of the neighborhood. Forest Park Southeast, on the other hand, has a well-traveled and up and coming commercial corridor in Manchester, and it's becoming the posterchild of the St. Louis upswing. After all, FPSE was not all that different from BPW even four years ago. Now, though there are some issues with a rapid spike in home values, the area is seeing income/race/age diversity that it hasn't enjoyed in years.
Be patient with BPW, as its neighborhood identity is a bit harder to tease out than a less off the beaten path 'hood like FPSE, aka the Grove. It will very soon be on the radar for its own brand of diversity.
Wouldn't you consider Cherokee Street the major commercial district? Sadly it looks worse then it ever has in my 20 years in the area.
Secondly, those unsold spec rehabs which look so nice are pretty soon going to be owned by the bank. The good news is they got restored. The bad news is after the silly bankers figger out what happened to them they will stay away until they get promoted and a new green banker comes along to make new loans.
The price of properties is way ahead of what it should be.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for progress and reclamation, however, I saw much of the same thing with the tax reform act of the early 80's.
Secondly, those unsold spec rehabs which look so nice are pretty soon going to be owned by the bank. The good news is they got restored. The bad news is after the silly bankers figger out what happened to them they will stay away until they get promoted and a new green banker comes along to make new loans.
The price of properties is way ahead of what it should be.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for progress and reclamation, however, I saw much of the same thing with the tax reform act of the early 80's.
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I personally think Cherokee looks better than in the past. I love that damn street!!!!
I was just on Cherokee Street last week for dinner. It's an awesome area.
Really, just because there are people who might not fit into your perfect little world, doesn't mean it's a bad area.
Really, just because there are people who might not fit into your perfect little world, doesn't mean it's a bad area.
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I think that the businesses are broader in scope now on Cherokee than they were a few years ago. The BIG antique places are gone, but I believe that was due to retirement as much an anything. Also I'll bet that the rise of the "antique mall" has hit the shop owner pretty hard.
But tthere are a couple of empty places that need to get sold and occupied.
Is this area Benton Park South? I prefer it to Benton Park West. But I do very much like the availability of smaller houses in BPW. I would only plea with developers: please don't fix them up and expect $200,000. There was one last summer that was cute as a bug from the outside on a really rough street. It had a huge lot. There were asking around $200,000 if I remember correctly. It had granite countertops. I don't think that is practical.
But tthere are a couple of empty places that need to get sold and occupied.
Is this area Benton Park South? I prefer it to Benton Park West. But I do very much like the availability of smaller houses in BPW. I would only plea with developers: please don't fix them up and expect $200,000. There was one last summer that was cute as a bug from the outside on a really rough street. It had a huge lot. There were asking around $200,000 if I remember correctly. It had granite countertops. I don't think that is practical.
There is no Benton Park South. West of Jefferson Cherokee Street divides Benton Park West and Gravois Park. East of Jefferson the street divides Benton Park and Marine Villa.
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Let me answer the question of the makeup of BPW as far as boundaries.
As was stated in an early post, it is true, there is not a main commercial district that runs through the middle of the neighborhood. For the most part (except for two blocks near Gravois), Benton Park West's south boundary is Cherokee from Jefferson to Compton, then one block south to Potomac, then to Gravois.
Cherokee street from Jefferson to Gravois is a hard one to work. Initially in the 40-60's this section of Cherokee was THE shopping district of South City. In the 70's there was decline due to the "megamalls" and easy living in the suburbs.
Another factor in Cherokee is street is that it is on the southern border and northern border of two different neighborhoods.
There is not a neighborhood such as Benton Park South. The neighborhood on the south side of Cherokee is Gravois Park.
Both neighborhoods have been fighting the same problems for years. At this point, I feel that BPW is about a year or two ahead of GP in the fight against crime, etc. The leadership of BPW has a vision beyond the fight. It is unknown of the leadership of GP has a vision beyond tomorrow.
For those who drive through and might see kids or young adults hanging...most likely those you see do not belong. They either have stopped along the way from Cherokee Recreation Center (which by the way is a HUGE problem) or just decided to stop in BPW.
While there are several "hot spots", the residents know about these spots and keep close eye to make sure that nothing "erupts" and that the activity is squashed before it gets out of hand. These same residents along with BPW leadership, Neighborhood Stabilization Officer, 3rd District Police and the Alderman are all on the same page in the fight.
Of those who drive through and think "Wow, there are people hanging on that corner that don't look like they belong"....well, if you'd have driven through BPW three years ago, you'd have been saying that on nearly every corner and block...not just one or two on select nights.
I live in the 2600 block of Wyoming. Take a drive down...see what it's like now. Three years ago, you couldn't...or wouldn't...have driven down the street. There would have been no less than 50-75 people on the street, impeding traffic and you'd have been offered drugs no less than three times.
So, it is all about perspective and what a neighborhood looks like in the current slice of time.
Lastly, as far as developers, etc. The leadership of BPW has continually spoken and suggested to developers to do more "affordable housing"…meaning decent housing in the $ 80-140K price range.
For anyone who has even spoken in detail to a developer or individual about rehabbing and the costs know that no matter how many bedrooms, etc. a house has there are still base costs. New water service (that the City requires), new waste systems (again, the City requires) that are more expensive today than even a year ago due to new requirements by the City, safe electric systems, etc. all take money. After that is the fluff...more than one bathroom, a kitchen that has more than the basics, and rehabbing beyond ensuring that a building remains "healthy".
I would estimate that a two bedroom bungalow...that one might think should sell for $ 50 rehabbed...will go on the low end for $ 80-90K. Purchase price is at least $ 25K (one that will require a complete gut just make it livable) to $ 50-60K for one that still needs a new kitchen, updated bathroom, etc. The City basically says that if you replace a sink you have to replace water service and update the plumbing system. Water service alone is about $ 5K by the time you pay the City, Street Department, and the plumber. So..the costs for a basic rehab that needs updating:
Purchase price - $ 50K
Water and water supply - $ 15K
Waste system - $ 10K
Basic cabinets and counter - $ 2K
Basic appliances - $ 1K
New flooring - kitchen - $ 500
New fixtures - single bath - $ 1K
New flooring - single bath - $ 500
Electrical upgrade (not full replacement of everything) - $ 3K
Carpet or refinished hardwoods - $ 5K
Outdoor work - tuckpointing, roof, gutters, etc. - $ 5K
General rehabbing to repair ceilings, walls, painting, woodwork, etc. - $ 10
Total bill? - $ 103,000.
So, how could someone rehab a building per City code and requirements for $ 103K and sell it for $ 80K? NO ONE CAN. Even if there is help from the City, etc...their requirements are such that you have to invest more on various items to get the City money.
btw...I know the costs because I've rehabbed several houses...and these costs are the bottom of the line. And on top of that there isn't any slack in the $ 103K budget for an opps, such as having to jack up the foundation because an inspector found a foundation problem, or the roof needs a total rip-off and half of the roof supports have to be replaced, or the bath floor needs to be completely ripped out and replaced because something had been leaking for years and rotted the floor.
Ok...sorry all for being so lengthy. I tried to shed light on several topics all in one post.
Bill.
As was stated in an early post, it is true, there is not a main commercial district that runs through the middle of the neighborhood. For the most part (except for two blocks near Gravois), Benton Park West's south boundary is Cherokee from Jefferson to Compton, then one block south to Potomac, then to Gravois.
Cherokee street from Jefferson to Gravois is a hard one to work. Initially in the 40-60's this section of Cherokee was THE shopping district of South City. In the 70's there was decline due to the "megamalls" and easy living in the suburbs.
Another factor in Cherokee is street is that it is on the southern border and northern border of two different neighborhoods.
There is not a neighborhood such as Benton Park South. The neighborhood on the south side of Cherokee is Gravois Park.
Both neighborhoods have been fighting the same problems for years. At this point, I feel that BPW is about a year or two ahead of GP in the fight against crime, etc. The leadership of BPW has a vision beyond the fight. It is unknown of the leadership of GP has a vision beyond tomorrow.
For those who drive through and might see kids or young adults hanging...most likely those you see do not belong. They either have stopped along the way from Cherokee Recreation Center (which by the way is a HUGE problem) or just decided to stop in BPW.
While there are several "hot spots", the residents know about these spots and keep close eye to make sure that nothing "erupts" and that the activity is squashed before it gets out of hand. These same residents along with BPW leadership, Neighborhood Stabilization Officer, 3rd District Police and the Alderman are all on the same page in the fight.
Of those who drive through and think "Wow, there are people hanging on that corner that don't look like they belong"....well, if you'd have driven through BPW three years ago, you'd have been saying that on nearly every corner and block...not just one or two on select nights.
I live in the 2600 block of Wyoming. Take a drive down...see what it's like now. Three years ago, you couldn't...or wouldn't...have driven down the street. There would have been no less than 50-75 people on the street, impeding traffic and you'd have been offered drugs no less than three times.
So, it is all about perspective and what a neighborhood looks like in the current slice of time.
Lastly, as far as developers, etc. The leadership of BPW has continually spoken and suggested to developers to do more "affordable housing"…meaning decent housing in the $ 80-140K price range.
For anyone who has even spoken in detail to a developer or individual about rehabbing and the costs know that no matter how many bedrooms, etc. a house has there are still base costs. New water service (that the City requires), new waste systems (again, the City requires) that are more expensive today than even a year ago due to new requirements by the City, safe electric systems, etc. all take money. After that is the fluff...more than one bathroom, a kitchen that has more than the basics, and rehabbing beyond ensuring that a building remains "healthy".
I would estimate that a two bedroom bungalow...that one might think should sell for $ 50 rehabbed...will go on the low end for $ 80-90K. Purchase price is at least $ 25K (one that will require a complete gut just make it livable) to $ 50-60K for one that still needs a new kitchen, updated bathroom, etc. The City basically says that if you replace a sink you have to replace water service and update the plumbing system. Water service alone is about $ 5K by the time you pay the City, Street Department, and the plumber. So..the costs for a basic rehab that needs updating:
Purchase price - $ 50K
Water and water supply - $ 15K
Waste system - $ 10K
Basic cabinets and counter - $ 2K
Basic appliances - $ 1K
New flooring - kitchen - $ 500
New fixtures - single bath - $ 1K
New flooring - single bath - $ 500
Electrical upgrade (not full replacement of everything) - $ 3K
Carpet or refinished hardwoods - $ 5K
Outdoor work - tuckpointing, roof, gutters, etc. - $ 5K
General rehabbing to repair ceilings, walls, painting, woodwork, etc. - $ 10
Total bill? - $ 103,000.
So, how could someone rehab a building per City code and requirements for $ 103K and sell it for $ 80K? NO ONE CAN. Even if there is help from the City, etc...their requirements are such that you have to invest more on various items to get the City money.
btw...I know the costs because I've rehabbed several houses...and these costs are the bottom of the line. And on top of that there isn't any slack in the $ 103K budget for an opps, such as having to jack up the foundation because an inspector found a foundation problem, or the roof needs a total rip-off and half of the roof supports have to be replaced, or the bath floor needs to be completely ripped out and replaced because something had been leaking for years and rotted the floor.
Ok...sorry all for being so lengthy. I tried to shed light on several topics all in one post.
Bill.
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Susan wrote:There is no Benton Park South. West of Jefferson Cherokee Street divides Benton Park West and Gravois Park. East of Jefferson the street divides Benton Park and Marine Villa.
Marine Villa? I've not heard of that.
I must be dense. I'm looking at several image maps on the web and cannot see the southern most boundary for the Benton Park neighborhood. Does it extend south past Benton Park the Park? Does it go all the way to Cherokee? For instance, the street "Withnell"--which neighborhood is that in?
GelatinousEndive wrote:Susan wrote:There is no Benton Park South. West of Jefferson Cherokee Street divides Benton Park West and Gravois Park. East of Jefferson the street divides Benton Park and Marine Villa.
Marine Villa? I've not heard of that.
I must be dense. I'm looking at several image maps on the web and cannot see the southern most boundary for the Benton Park neighborhood. Does it extend south past Benton Park the Park? Does it go all the way to Cherokee? For instance, the street "Withnell"--which neighborhood is that in?
Just check this out.
http://stlouis.missouri.org/neighborhoods/neighmap.html
http://stlouis.missouri.org/marinevilla/
http://stlouis.missouri.org/bentonpark/
http://www.bentonparkwest.org/
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[quote="dweebeJust check this out.
http://stlouis.missouri.org/neighborhoods/neighmap.html
http://stlouis.missouri.org/marinevilla/
http://stlouis.missouri.org/bentonpark/
http://www.bentonparkwest.org/[/quote]
I saw these image maps and I cannot see the names of the streets that serve as borders.
edite to add: I poked around one of these sites and found, buried in the "links" page, the description of the soutnermost border of Benton Park as follows:
"Map
The neighborhood boundaries are: I-55 to Gravois to South Jefferson to Cherokee. Click here for a Mapquest map of Benton Park and the vicinity. The red star at the intersection of McNair and Pestalozzi marks the approximate center of the neighborhood."
IT wasn't easy to find.
http://stlouis.missouri.org/neighborhoods/neighmap.html
http://stlouis.missouri.org/marinevilla/
http://stlouis.missouri.org/bentonpark/
http://www.bentonparkwest.org/[/quote]
I saw these image maps and I cannot see the names of the streets that serve as borders.
edite to add: I poked around one of these sites and found, buried in the "links" page, the description of the soutnermost border of Benton Park as follows:
"Map
The neighborhood boundaries are: I-55 to Gravois to South Jefferson to Cherokee. Click here for a Mapquest map of Benton Park and the vicinity. The red star at the intersection of McNair and Pestalozzi marks the approximate center of the neighborhood."
IT wasn't easy to find.
GelatinousEndive wrote:quote="dweebeJust check this out.
http://stlouis.missouri.org/neighborhoods/neighmap.html
http://stlouis.missouri.org/marinevilla/
http://stlouis.missouri.org/bentonpark/
http://www.bentonparkwest.org/
I saw these image maps and I cannot see the names of the streets that serve as borders.
Just do some clicking within the links I gave.
http://stlcin.missouri.org/nbr/neighpro ... eighnum=18
18 - Marine Villa
Boundaries: The Marine Villa neighborhood is located just south of the world famous Anheuser-Busch Brewery along the awesome bluffs of the Mississippi River running on the Southeast. It is further defined by Cherokee Street's Antique Row on the North, Gasconade Street on the South, South Broadway and Jefferson Avenue on the West, and the Mississippi River on the East.
http://stlouis.missouri.org/bentonpark/links.html
The neighborhood boundaries are: I-55 to Gravois to South Jefferson to Cherokee.
http://www.bentonparkwest.org/
Benton Park West is bounded by South Jefferson Avenue on the east, Cherokee Street on the south and Gravois Street on the Northwest. Click here for map.
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BPW Resident wrote:
I would estimate that a two bedroom bungalow...that one might think should sell for $ 50 rehabbed...will go on the low end for $ 80-90K. Purchase price is at least $ 25K (one that will require a complete gut just make it livable) to $ 50-60K for one that still needs a new kitchen, updated bathroom, etc. The City basically says that if you replace a sink you have to replace water service and update the plumbing system. Water service alone is about $ 5K by the time you pay the City, Street Department, and the plumber. So..the costs for a basic rehab that needs updating:
Purchase price - $ 50K
Water and water supply - $ 15K
Waste system - $ 10K
Basic cabinets and counter - $ 2K
Basic appliances - $ 1K
New flooring - kitchen - $ 500
New fixtures - single bath - $ 1K
New flooring - single bath - $ 500
Electrical upgrade (not full replacement of everything) - $ 3K
Carpet or refinished hardwoods - $ 5K
Outdoor work - tuckpointing, roof, gutters, etc. - $ 5K
General rehabbing to repair ceilings, walls, painting, woodwork, etc. - $ 10
Total bill? - $ 103,000.
So, how could someone rehab a building per City code and requirements for $ 103K and sell it for $ 80K? NO ONE CAN. Even if there is help from the City, etc...their requirements are such that you have to invest more on various items to get the City money.
btw...I know the costs because I've rehabbed several houses...and these costs are the bottom of the line. And on top of that there isn't any slack in the $ 103K budget for an opps, such as having to jack up the foundation because an inspector found a foundation problem, or the roof needs a total rip-off and half of the roof supports have to be replaced, or the bath floor needs to be completely ripped out and replaced because something had been leaking for years and rotted the floor.
Ok...sorry all for being so lengthy. I tried to shed light on several topics all in one post.
Bill.
Thanks for your complete response.
I agree with your cost list and that doesn't even include HVAC systems.
I know that it's hard to make money on the little ones--we are working on 3 gut rehabs, each 4 rooms + bath. Each a different layout. It will be interesting to see finally how mmuch money we sink into them.
Please don't look at the outdated city website for Marine Villa! They are supposed to change the link, but we have a new website: www.marinevilla.org
Alot of people don't know where Marine Villa is, they think it is Benton Park, and that's a problem. We are working on marketing the neighborhood, which hasn't been done effectively in years.
The Rehabber's Club is having their monthly meeting in Marine Villa on Sat. Nov. 17th. So stop by and see some of the exciting things that are happening on and around Cherokee Street and S. Broadway.
Alot of people don't know where Marine Villa is, they think it is Benton Park, and that's a problem. We are working on marketing the neighborhood, which hasn't been done effectively in years.
The Rehabber's Club is having their monthly meeting in Marine Villa on Sat. Nov. 17th. So stop by and see some of the exciting things that are happening on and around Cherokee Street and S. Broadway.
I've been through Marine Villa several times recently, and it's just an awesome neighborhood. I'd put it near the top of the city's best kept secrets. That's actually on the list of neighborhoods I'm looking at to buy my first home.
RE: BPW Resident
Yes a very thoughtful response. Which brings me to my skepticism regarding where some of these prices have gotten too. Under your calculations, which appear very believable, the only way to successfully move forward is for homeowners to expend sweat equity and winking at some of the code requirements. The result being able to live cheaply while doing your rehab and have a $80-100 property.
All of which has been done in the past. It just gets a little tougher each year sneaking around the building dept.
It is unreasonable for properties to be "developed" and then marketed at $200k plus when around the corner are vacancies and vagrants.
It just sets up false expectations. I recall a Money Magazine article a few years back that interviewed someone in BPW who couldn't get into Lafayette or Soulard but was counting on a similar return. Not likely to happen.
Yes a very thoughtful response. Which brings me to my skepticism regarding where some of these prices have gotten too. Under your calculations, which appear very believable, the only way to successfully move forward is for homeowners to expend sweat equity and winking at some of the code requirements. The result being able to live cheaply while doing your rehab and have a $80-100 property.
All of which has been done in the past. It just gets a little tougher each year sneaking around the building dept.
It is unreasonable for properties to be "developed" and then marketed at $200k plus when around the corner are vacancies and vagrants.
It just sets up false expectations. I recall a Money Magazine article a few years back that interviewed someone in BPW who couldn't get into Lafayette or Soulard but was counting on a similar return. Not likely to happen.
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is there a "moratorium" on liquor licenses in a large part of BPW?
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Moratorium is a weird word.
What the 20th Ward, which constitutes a good portion of the southern portion of BPW is an ordinance that requires new establishments that serve alcohol to also offer food at a projected ratio of 50/50.
The leadership of BPW would like to work with the Alderman of the 20th ward to re-visit the ratio. However, at a BPW neighborhood meeting, when the question about adjusting the ratios were discussed the majority of residents wanted to raise the percentage of food required.
Housing prices.
One thing the leadership of BPW does is to insist that any rehabbing done is within the system of the City. Having renovations done correctly (code, etc.) ensures that the building remains healthy, as well as, safe for the resident. This includes rental and home owner occupied. Too many properties that were rehabbed in the "early days" of rehabbing (in many areas of the city) were substandard.
I do have to say that the house me and my partner bought was one that was "livable" by some standards. Many people wouldn't have moved anything in when we did...without more rehab. We spent over $ 10k before we even moved in to have the floors refinished, cleanup, etc. After we moved in we started on the systems...Newer Electrical...the electrical service that was in a two story, 2600sq ft building was 60 amp. We now have 200 amp and wonder if it'll be large enough to accommodate that we would like to end up with.
We put in a new kitchen, true the products (cabinets, appliances, etc.) are far above what was needed, but the electrical and plumbing was no cheap task. Because of moving the sink and changing water lines we had to put in new water service. That meant getting rid of all the old lead and iron pipes.
Needless to say, even buying low...and there are still properties on the market today that were in the same shape as our house was almost four years ago...for about the same price.
When looking for a house...you have to look at all the factors, not just one or two.
However, when I walked into the front door of my house for the first time, I knew that it would be my house. Unless the back of the house was falling down...and even then, I'd have tried to figure out a way to stablize the back until I could afford to have the walls rebuilt.
Anyone who is interested in a living rehab...call me, I can direct you to no less than 5 in Benton Park West. You're not going to find these properties in the $ 25-50K price range...they are going to be in the $75-100K range.
I would challenge anyone to find a house in south city that is sturdy, wasn't a cheap house when originally built, that is livable...for under $ 75. That is for at least 3bd, 1 bath. You might find something lower, closer to $ 60K, but checkout the block...would you walk down the street at 9p at night without a dog and feel safe?
People pay for safety and comfort.
Thanks to everyone who not only has posted on this blog, but also have read the words.
One thing to keep in mind...one place isn't right for everyone. Just as a neighborhood with the same style/size of housing and the same narrow socio-economic strata doesn't remain stablized longer than 25-30 years.
Diversity is the key rule when talking about stability in communities. It takes a wide variety of individuals from young to old, service workers to professionals, "earthy" to ultramodern...without diversity a community will eventually die.
What the 20th Ward, which constitutes a good portion of the southern portion of BPW is an ordinance that requires new establishments that serve alcohol to also offer food at a projected ratio of 50/50.
The leadership of BPW would like to work with the Alderman of the 20th ward to re-visit the ratio. However, at a BPW neighborhood meeting, when the question about adjusting the ratios were discussed the majority of residents wanted to raise the percentage of food required.
Housing prices.
One thing the leadership of BPW does is to insist that any rehabbing done is within the system of the City. Having renovations done correctly (code, etc.) ensures that the building remains healthy, as well as, safe for the resident. This includes rental and home owner occupied. Too many properties that were rehabbed in the "early days" of rehabbing (in many areas of the city) were substandard.
I do have to say that the house me and my partner bought was one that was "livable" by some standards. Many people wouldn't have moved anything in when we did...without more rehab. We spent over $ 10k before we even moved in to have the floors refinished, cleanup, etc. After we moved in we started on the systems...Newer Electrical...the electrical service that was in a two story, 2600sq ft building was 60 amp. We now have 200 amp and wonder if it'll be large enough to accommodate that we would like to end up with.
We put in a new kitchen, true the products (cabinets, appliances, etc.) are far above what was needed, but the electrical and plumbing was no cheap task. Because of moving the sink and changing water lines we had to put in new water service. That meant getting rid of all the old lead and iron pipes.
Needless to say, even buying low...and there are still properties on the market today that were in the same shape as our house was almost four years ago...for about the same price.
When looking for a house...you have to look at all the factors, not just one or two.
However, when I walked into the front door of my house for the first time, I knew that it would be my house. Unless the back of the house was falling down...and even then, I'd have tried to figure out a way to stablize the back until I could afford to have the walls rebuilt.
Anyone who is interested in a living rehab...call me, I can direct you to no less than 5 in Benton Park West. You're not going to find these properties in the $ 25-50K price range...they are going to be in the $75-100K range.
I would challenge anyone to find a house in south city that is sturdy, wasn't a cheap house when originally built, that is livable...for under $ 75. That is for at least 3bd, 1 bath. You might find something lower, closer to $ 60K, but checkout the block...would you walk down the street at 9p at night without a dog and feel safe?
People pay for safety and comfort.
Thanks to everyone who not only has posted on this blog, but also have read the words.
One thing to keep in mind...one place isn't right for everyone. Just as a neighborhood with the same style/size of housing and the same narrow socio-economic strata doesn't remain stablized longer than 25-30 years.
Diversity is the key rule when talking about stability in communities. It takes a wide variety of individuals from young to old, service workers to professionals, "earthy" to ultramodern...without diversity a community will eventually die.
- 710
This may sound rediculous to some... but from what i've seen in St. Louis, as well as other cities, I get a sense that the existense of local corner pubs are a good barameter (and resource) for many people when assessing a neighborhood beyond what they can see otherwise. The 20th has some fine corner properties, i'd like to see a few come alive once again like a few examples in the Greater Tower Groves area or on Morganford.
Anyway, one reason i'm looking at BPW is that being a new college grad, many neighborhoods are out of my comfort range $$$, but from the homes I have toured, I can get into a small, but very solid home (right now) for about 1/3 what I am paying in rent. I think that neighborhoods like BPW with a variety of smaller properties will be in demand for a variety of reasons, energy use and maintenance costs being one. Personally, I'm used to small spaces from living in studio apartments, those brick shotguns are plenty for me...
Anyway, one reason i'm looking at BPW is that being a new college grad, many neighborhoods are out of my comfort range $$$, but from the homes I have toured, I can get into a small, but very solid home (right now) for about 1/3 what I am paying in rent. I think that neighborhoods like BPW with a variety of smaller properties will be in demand for a variety of reasons, energy use and maintenance costs being one. Personally, I'm used to small spaces from living in studio apartments, those brick shotguns are plenty for me...
I understand the necessity of building codes etc. However, it is my understanding that when Merit Clark was Alderman she intentionally exempted Lafayette Square from occupancy permits so the "pioneers" would continue to work and buildings could be saved, as opposed to necessitating "professional" rehabs at a corresponding high price.
Now occupancy permits are completely necessary in neighborhoods like BPW given the rentals and I am guessing a handful of neglectful landlords.
I just thought I would offer a little background for thought.
Regards pricing: be bold and don't worry about offending the owner of the down and out property. Your hardest part may be getting the realtor to pass along the offer. You are the market not the appraiser who has gone a long way to allowing inflated pricing.
Now occupancy permits are completely necessary in neighborhoods like BPW given the rentals and I am guessing a handful of neglectful landlords.
I just thought I would offer a little background for thought.
Regards pricing: be bold and don't worry about offending the owner of the down and out property. Your hardest part may be getting the realtor to pass along the offer. You are the market not the appraiser who has gone a long way to allowing inflated pricing.