urbanSTL

are you seriously telling me that you WOULDN't be ecstatic if they built that. ... I mean if they have somethign even more impressive - yeah I'd like that as well. But good God - this would be the biggest development in St. Louis since the arch itself ... just imagine how it woudl look if the MW tower and the lake gets built as well.

markofucity wrote:and personaly I'm glad that the fabled "MW tower" isn't included. Makes me think that maybe - just maybe - we could get both the tower AND the BPV. an eighty story tower catacorner to the stadium on the south side would complement this project quite well wouldn't it? The views from the stadium would be amazing. imagine the TV footage. St. Louis would look like NY. .. and come to think of it - I can't think of another atdium that would offer a similar experience. It would almost be hard to concentrate on the game. .. would make STL look really good nationally

The absolute worst possible view would come from a building built on this plot.... This building would be behind home plate and across the street so all the action would be blocked by the stands behind home plate...the money views into the ballpark are from the north and east...



And blues..i don't see any free standing garages at all... !!

yeah the views from the building wouldn;t be as good ... but I was tslking about the views from inside the stadium. Imagine sitting in a below street level bowl looking up at highrises on all four sides. You'd have the BPV right outside the outfield (with people watching from the roofs no less - see the bleachers) and an 80 story buildign looming over home plate. If I was a corporation (which I'm not) I would kill to have my name on a tower twice as tall as any building in STL that soared DIRECTLY over home plate of Busch Stadium.

markofucity wrote:are you seriously telling me that you WOULDN't be ecstatic if they built that. ... I mean if they have somethign even more impressive - yeah I'd like that as well. But good God - this would be the biggest development in St. Louis since the arch itself ... just imagine how it woudl look if the MW tower and the lake gets built as well.

I am just saying that that model is of the same renderings that have been on the Cordish website for over two years now. Nothing new whatsoever, yet the Cardinals/Cordish have been acting in the media as though they recently decided to build something WAY bigger, and that that decision was part of the delay in getting it built. So, IF this is the final version, yes, I am disappointed, and angry. One other thing to note, if most of the parking gets put underground, it might reduce the height of those buildings by several stories.



And I am quite sure that those three structures are garages. Granted I only have a decade or so of experience with these things, but I still feel fairly confident in saying that.

That looks great! This is really going to be something.

jlblues wrote:And I am quite sure that those three structures are garages. Granted I only have a decade or so of experience with these things, but I still feel fairly confident in saying that.

Can you circle the buildings you (and others) think are garages? I'm having trouble figuring out which ones you are talking about.

jlblues wrote:

markofucity wrote:are you seriously telling me that you WOULDN't be ecstatic if they built that. ... I mean if they have somethign even more impressive - yeah I'd like that as well. But good God - this would be the biggest development in St. Louis since the arch itself ... just imagine how it woudl look if the MW tower and the lake gets built as well.

I am just saying that that model is of the same renderings that have been on the Cordish website for over two years now. Nothing new whatsoever, yet the Cardinals/Cordish have been acting in the media as though they recently decided to build something WAY bigger, and that that decision was part of the delay in getting it built. So, IF this is the final version, yes, I am disappointed, and angry. One other thing to note, if most of the parking gets put underground, it might reduce the height of those buildings by several stories.

And I am quite sure that those three structures are garages. Granted I only have a decade or so of experience with these things, but I still feel fairly confident in saying that.

Agreed... According to the interview with mayor slay earlier this week on 550 am, had the cardinals (a baseball team, not a developer) had all their ducks in a row, could have broken ground on BPV no earlier than august... I know the grounds look like crap now, but a 6 month delay isn't really that unheard of...



Scrutinizer...blues updated his earlier post (with pics of model) with the locations of his suspected garages..it's real tough to tell



Oh and by the way... I am very surprised that these so closely resemble the original renderings... ! VERY SURPRISE AND SOMEWHAT DISAPpOINTED

Guys, we have no idea when this model was made or when these pictures were taken. All we know is that they are new to us.

stlmike wrote:Guys, we have no idea when this model was made or when these pictures were taken. All we know is that they are new to us.

Good thought, but not necessarily... look out the windows in pic 2...these pics were taken for sure within the last few months...I see a completed stadium and green leaves on the trees... already talked to the mayors office..someone will be getting in trouble for leaking these

jlblues - I definately see what you mean in the first photo. Those have a very high potential to be parking garages (hopefully with some sort of ground floor retail). In the last photo, however, I really hope that they don't make such a prominent corner of the development into a garage structure. Such a location would be much more suited for a office or condo building. It's effectivley the first thing that many people will see when they approach the development, not to mention being accross from the GenAmerica building (one of my favorite buildings downtown). Judging by their previous projects I believe that Cordish has a little more forsight than to do something that stupid.

I love the mid-rise infill and seemingly natural urban growth the models show. IMO this doesn't look like a homogeneous 6-block blob that I feared. This development will work because they're building within the context of the city and not simply dropping an entertainment district into the heart of downtown. I think the best thing is the amount of residential being built. This, and the Cupples development will transform this area. I completely understand the disappointment. With all they hype, I too was expecting something we hadn't thought of (apparently we've thought of everything). Of course the real test of this development will only be seen at street level once completed. Clark looks great by the way - it's going to be a spectacular atmosphere for games (it was reported that Clark will be open otherwise).



Now, can we hand Cordish the Gateway Mall and tell 'em to get to work?

Well, ok, so we know that they were taken after April. When did the announcement for the increases to 650, 700 million take place? Perhaps the extra 50 million was in increase in floors of underground parking?



I agree that my favorite thing about these renderings is that all of the buildings don't look the same. They give a textured look.

crbswiss wrote:...In the last photo, however, I really hope that they don't make such a prominent corner of the development into a garage structure. Such a location would be much more suited for a office or condo building. It's effectivley the first thing that many people will see when they approach the development, not to mention being accross from the GenAmerica building (one of my favorite buildings downtown). Judging by their previous projects I believe that Cordish has a little more forsight than to do something that stupid.

I suspect that that corner of the Village will be in flux for awhile anyway. That is the site of the Bowling Hall of Fame. I am not sure that Cordish even has an option on that property yet, which would be a major reason why they wouldn't want people to see the model. It is generally considered unprofessional to publicly display a model that indicates development of property on which you don't even have an option.

Ihnen wrote:I love the mid-rise infill and seemingly natural urban growth the models show. IMO this doesn't look like a homogeneous 6-block blob that I feared. This development will work because they're building within the context of the city and not simply dropping an entertainment district into the heart of downtown. I think the best thing is the amount of residential being built. This, and the Cupples development will transform this area. I completely understand the disappointment. With all they hype, I too was expecting something we hadn't thought of (apparently we've thought of everything). Of course the real test of this development will only be seen at street level once completed. Clark looks great by the way - it's going to be a spectacular atmosphere for games (it was reported that Clark will be open otherwise).



Now, can we hand Cordish the Gateway Mall and tell 'em to get to work?

I couldn't agree more on the great job they did building this within the context of the city. That's why I think a development like this will fax exceed any development like what they planned at The Bottle District - it looks like it was built over time, and isn't some homegenous district. Bravo!



I actually feel the height of the buildings is good as well, a few towers, all scattered in the teens, 20's, and 30 stories.

metzgda wrote:I actually feel the height of the buildings is good as well, a few towers, all scattered in the teens, 20's, and 30 stories.

But the new quote was "soaring over the arch" which 30 stories is not..... At any rate - this could be a catalyst for development in downtown, but this property is far to valuable to waste on "buildings with teen numbers of floors" 20s or 30 are fine, but I would love to see one or two upper 30 to 50 +/- stories... thats just me and thats the impression that I got, but again... You can't expect 3 20 story buildings, 1 30 story building and 1 40 story building plus garges, street work etc for $700 million..... we aren't talking $1.5 billion (yet)

I know there's been some digs about the country scene and if there is going to be a presence of country or NASCAR or both in BPV so I thought I'd throw it out there: anyone ever been to a Toby Keith Bar & Grill???



I personally haven't but know there is one in the Harrah's LV, as well as other locations, so perhaps this would be a spot to consider? I like all types of music, including country though that is not my genre of choice and can relate to the fact that a non-tacky themed country bar/grill could call BPV home. A place like this would be a nice appeal to those who enjoy country music but may not come sportin' full out Western wear! It's a bar and grill so it would also appeal to those looking to eat/drink pre/post game. Whether you are a country music fan or not, you've got to give props to his song - Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue (The Angry American) - that he wrote after the 9/11 attacks. A great song - IMO.



I agree with earlier posts about BPV needing diversity - after all, this will be a spot that caters first and foremost to tourists whether those from STL like that or not. Just as Cheesecake Factory's all over have a very touristy base, I would suspect places that can be found in other large cities, that are chains, though not something like a Panda Express which most malls in smaller markets contain, will boost this area nicely. Perhaps a Grand Lux Cafe - a little more upscale version of the Cheesecake Factory, would work in this location?



The Lettuce Entertain You Enterprises group, I've found, is the mother ship to several restaurants I've enjoyed in places such as Chicago and Las Vegas and would love to see any number of these places in BPV such as: Big Bowl (Chinese/Thai), Joe's Seafood, Cafe-Ba-Ba-Reba (tapas), Ben Pao (Chinese), Wildfire (Steaks/Seafood), and Shaw's Crabhouse just to name a few. Maggiano's is also under this group so they are familiar with the STL market already.

Whether you are a country music fan or not, you've got to give props to his song - Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue (The Angry American) - that he wrote after the 9/11 attacks. A great song - IMO.

Ehhh... Not my cup of tea.



I love country music. I don't blame people today for giving it the reputation it has, though. The radio friendly country music of the past two and a half decades or so has been pretty souless. Country music is more than just a twangy voice, a guitar, and a cowboy hat. Give me Johnny Cash, Merle Haggard, Hank Williams, the Carter Family, John Prine, Loretta Lynn, Buck Owens, Patsy Cline and Willie Nelson! Not to mention St. Louis' own Uncle Tupelo (RIP).

stlmike wrote:

Whether you are a country music fan or not, you've got to give props to his song - Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue (The Angry American) - that he wrote after the 9/11 attacks. A great song - IMO.

Ehhh... Not my cup of tea.



I love country music. I don't blame people today for giving it the reputation it has, though. The radio friendly country music of the past two and a half decades or so has been pretty souless. Country music is more than just a twangy voice, a guitar, and a cowboy hat. Give me Johnny Cash, Merle Haggard, Hank Williams, the Carter Family, John Prine, Loretta Lynn, Buck Owens, Patsy Cline and Willie Nelson! Not to mention St. Louis' own Uncle Tupelo (RIP).

Exactly! And "real" country music is still being made (i.e. Junior Brown), but it just isn't played on the radio.



I like country music. I don't like "country-music-with-rock-guitars-sanitized-for-the-protection-of-SUV-driving-suburban-white-people music", i.e. Garth Brooks (among others).

will prob be another PF changs in the BPV

I honestly really hope for a House of Blues. I would love to have one more medium sized venue for St Louis and would love it to go downtown.

House of Blues should really be in Soulard - OR somewhere near BB's Jazz and Soups if they ever build the Chouteau Lake ... that area could be a "blues district"

I would agree, but the venue mostly doesn't play Blues, it's a very chain style restaurant, BPV has the means, the resources, and the credibility, and this is very close to the "Blues District" as it is, so I would be fine with it.

markofucity wrote:House of Blues should really be in Soulard - OR somewhere near BB's Jazz and Soups if they ever build the Chouteau Lake ... that area could be a "blues district"

HOB would have to start booking Blues acts in order to move into a "Blues District".