Awesome letter. I'd imagine someone at the PD from outside the city will make sure it doesn't get published. It's really amazing to me how many wonderful things are going on in the city and how little you hear about them in the PD or any local news channel. We should form a group who's mission statement is to get more developments and positive happenings in the city mentioned on the outlets suburbanites watch/read.
- 623
St. Louis UP meeting please.
Also for the lack of a meeting, everyone reading this thread should take 5 minutes and write a letter to the editor, posting it here is fine but make sure it is short sweet and original.
I'll try to send a copy to the mayor's office.
Also call the KMOX shows and others, especially Charlie Brennan and Paul Harris when they talk about it.
Haven't listened to McGraw talk about this, but he is usually pretty good about these things.
Sad thing is that the KFNS morning show has had the most intelligent discussion that I have heard about the topic.
Also for the lack of a meeting, everyone reading this thread should take 5 minutes and write a letter to the editor, posting it here is fine but make sure it is short sweet and original.
I'll try to send a copy to the mayor's office.
Also call the KMOX shows and others, especially Charlie Brennan and Paul Harris when they talk about it.
Haven't listened to McGraw talk about this, but he is usually pretty good about these things.
Sad thing is that the KFNS morning show has had the most intelligent discussion that I have heard about the topic.
- 1,026
you're right ... i heard that discussion on KFNS. It was in depth and pretty much solid.
- 623
Update...
I got the call. Letter will be published probably on Friday, or possibly Sunday or Monday.
How many other can we get in?
Write!
I also suggest writing supportive emails to the mayor... mayorslay@mayorslay.com
I got the call. Letter will be published probably on Friday, or possibly Sunday or Monday.
How many other can we get in?
Write!
I also suggest writing supportive emails to the mayor... mayorslay@mayorslay.com
markofucity wrote:you're right ... i heard that discussion on KFNS. It was in depth and pretty much solid.
Can you paraphrase what was said? I can't get an AM signal or streaming audio at work.
- 623
It was last week, so I can't parapharse it, but they interviewed both Jake Wageman, the PD reporter who wrote the story last Sunday. They also then interview the Mayor.
It wasn't so much the points made, but they asked intelligent questions, for example they said something like TIF comes from the incremental revenue of the project not directly out of the taxpayers pockets, so wasn't the title of the article a little misleading. And also don't you think the article had a negative tone.
Tim McCernan (sp?) was concerned that too many of the new stores were going to be big national chains and not a mix of local stores like on Washington Ave, and whether they could actually attract new customers with restaurants like ESPN Sportzone as opposed to draining business from other downtown establishments.
All in all the questions in both interviews were balanced and intelligent, and brought up points that you didn't see in the paper and on other radio shows.
It wasn't so much the points made, but they asked intelligent questions, for example they said something like TIF comes from the incremental revenue of the project not directly out of the taxpayers pockets, so wasn't the title of the article a little misleading. And also don't you think the article had a negative tone.
Tim McCernan (sp?) was concerned that too many of the new stores were going to be big national chains and not a mix of local stores like on Washington Ave, and whether they could actually attract new customers with restaurants like ESPN Sportzone as opposed to draining business from other downtown establishments.
All in all the questions in both interviews were balanced and intelligent, and brought up points that you didn't see in the paper and on other radio shows.
MattonArsenal wrote:Update...
I got the call. Letter will be published probably on Friday, or possibly Sunday or Monday.
How many other can we get in?
Write!
I also suggest writing supportive emails to the mayor... mayorslay@mayorslay.com
Are you saying it will be posted on MayorSlay.com? Any chance you could forward along my Post response earlier in this thread as well?
- 8,912
Blake cordish was on KMOX with charlie brennan this morning...
here are some short notes I made...
Blake wanted to hammer these points basically
On residential...
there will indeed be 1200 res. units in this development...most important piece of the development...in vibrant cities, there must be people on the streets, he used sunday nights as an example...Many units will have home plate views, "absolutely spectacular" views
on retail...
It is not appropriate to discuss specific retailers or restuarants at this time but some will be local rest/retailers and some will be national rest/retailers but they will be "very unique and one of a kind" and or new to the region...
On development and financing...
he hammered away that since day one the city has had access to our books and quotes from contractors..."We have opened our books completely and comprehensively from day one, every peice of paper we have on BPV has been made avaliable to the city"
TIF money will go to infrastructure (city streets, sidewalks, utilities, and PARKING)
BPV is a very unique development, no other city has a plot of land like this anywhere in the heart of DT.... we will build this to fit into the fabric of DT and "WE WANT SPIN OFF EFFECTS" I.E. he doesn't want this to be an island, it is just as important to cordish that more things are built up around the south end of DT to increase their return on investment, as anyone...
He would not state their target return on investment but he stated it was in the single digits..
i scribbled some notes while driving and the rest is from memory...hope this is helpfull to the forum...
here are some short notes I made...
Blake wanted to hammer these points basically
On residential...
there will indeed be 1200 res. units in this development...most important piece of the development...in vibrant cities, there must be people on the streets, he used sunday nights as an example...Many units will have home plate views, "absolutely spectacular" views
on retail...
It is not appropriate to discuss specific retailers or restuarants at this time but some will be local rest/retailers and some will be national rest/retailers but they will be "very unique and one of a kind" and or new to the region...
On development and financing...
he hammered away that since day one the city has had access to our books and quotes from contractors..."We have opened our books completely and comprehensively from day one, every peice of paper we have on BPV has been made avaliable to the city"
TIF money will go to infrastructure (city streets, sidewalks, utilities, and PARKING)
BPV is a very unique development, no other city has a plot of land like this anywhere in the heart of DT.... we will build this to fit into the fabric of DT and "WE WANT SPIN OFF EFFECTS" I.E. he doesn't want this to be an island, it is just as important to cordish that more things are built up around the south end of DT to increase their return on investment, as anyone...
He would not state their target return on investment but he stated it was in the single digits..
i scribbled some notes while driving and the rest is from memory...hope this is helpfull to the forum...
- 623
Are you saying it will be posted on MayorSlay.com? Any chance you could forward along my Post response earlier in this thread as well?
No, it was going to be published in the Post. I was just saying that if you support the mayor's efforts you should send an email.
ALSO VERY IMPORTANT, if you are writing a letter to the editor about this or any other issue DO NOT POST IT HERE BEFORE IT IS PUBLISHED. If someone from the PD sees it here, they will not publish it, because it will no longer be considered original content.
I have been told I need to re-write and re-submit my letter, because it was posted here first.
Apparently people at the PD are among us.
- 8,912
MattonArsenal wrote:
Apparently people at the PD are among us.
i'm sure they are but its hard to believe that they could get some many facts wrong all the time...if they just checked here first they could save themselves alot of
'mentbpe235 wrote:Blake cordish was on KMOX with charlie brennan this morning...
here are some short notes I made...
Blake wanted to hammer these points basically
On residential...
there will indeed be 1200 res. units in this development...most important piece of the development...in vibrant cities, there must be people on the streets, he used sunday nights as an example...Many units will have home plate views, "absolutely spectacular" views
on retail...
It is not appropriate to discuss specific retailers or restuarants at this time but some will be local rest/retailers and some will be national rest/retailers but they will be "very unique and one of a kind" and or new to the region...
On development and financing...
he hammered away that since day one the city has had access to our books and quotes from contractors..."We have opened our books completely and comprehensively from day one, every peice of paper we have on BPV has been made avaliable to the city"
TIF money will go to infrastructure (city streets, sidewalks, utilities, and PARKING)
BPV is a very unique development, no other city has a plot of land like this anywhere in the heart of DT.... we will build this to fit into the fabric of DT and "WE WANT SPIN OFF EFFECTS" I.E. he doesn't want this to be an island, it is just as important to cordish that more things are built up around the south end of DT to increase their return on investment, as anyone...
He would not state their target return on investment but he stated it was in the single digits..
i scribbled some notes while driving and the rest is from memory...hope this is helpfull to the forum...
^Good Stuff! thanks!
- 1,768
Yesterday on the ride home I was shocked to here an editorial from a Vp at KMOX talking about "The Hole." To not repeat the entire thing, so let me sum up.
Talked about cardinal obligation for 2 blocks 60 mil, and Proposed 650 million plan. Asked "Would it be patronized" "Can downtwon support it?"
Mentioned that the Cardinals would not need any public assistance for 60 mil version. But the 650 would be "publicly funded, using Tax Iinccrement Financing and Missouri Downtown Intitiatives money."
went on to say that the cardinals should do the 2 blocks first as a "pilot" before we commit taxpayer money. ANd then questioned wether or not we should "publicly fund a 650 million dollar development" when our schools and infrastructure need so much work.
This really pissed me off. Foremeost , it seemed like KMOX simply tryingt o stab the cards for leaving, let em bleed. Second he insinuated time and again that 1) the entire 650 would be publicly funded. 2) We couldn't support it. 3) that money from this project would somehow be availablke for the school system (which is a blatant lie) and other needs.
What kills me is that they don't explain the combination of tax breaks like TIF (which use newly generated revenue from the development to pay for the development that would otherwise not exist) and and a State Initiative for downtown development would not cost the taxpayers a cent. The TIF would only (temporarily) limit the amount of taxes taken in from the development while the state program would come from..oh my god..the state! Everyone likes the state to give money back to their area, right?
Furthermore, the implication that there is more to get out of a 60 million dollar subsidy free development versus say, half of the taxes of a 650 million dollar development is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
KMOX has truly pissed me off, and they have moved from my "indifferent" category to "loathed."
I'm sure they'll play this some more, keep your ears peeled and let me know what you think if you hear it.
Talked about cardinal obligation for 2 blocks 60 mil, and Proposed 650 million plan. Asked "Would it be patronized" "Can downtwon support it?"
Mentioned that the Cardinals would not need any public assistance for 60 mil version. But the 650 would be "publicly funded, using Tax Iinccrement Financing and Missouri Downtown Intitiatives money."
went on to say that the cardinals should do the 2 blocks first as a "pilot" before we commit taxpayer money. ANd then questioned wether or not we should "publicly fund a 650 million dollar development" when our schools and infrastructure need so much work.
This really pissed me off. Foremeost , it seemed like KMOX simply tryingt o stab the cards for leaving, let em bleed. Second he insinuated time and again that 1) the entire 650 would be publicly funded. 2) We couldn't support it. 3) that money from this project would somehow be availablke for the school system (which is a blatant lie) and other needs.
What kills me is that they don't explain the combination of tax breaks like TIF (which use newly generated revenue from the development to pay for the development that would otherwise not exist) and and a State Initiative for downtown development would not cost the taxpayers a cent. The TIF would only (temporarily) limit the amount of taxes taken in from the development while the state program would come from..oh my god..the state! Everyone likes the state to give money back to their area, right?
Furthermore, the implication that there is more to get out of a 60 million dollar subsidy free development versus say, half of the taxes of a 650 million dollar development is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
KMOX has truly pissed me off, and they have moved from my "indifferent" category to "loathed."
I'm sure they'll play this some more, keep your ears peeled and let me know what you think if you hear it.
courtland wrote:bpe235 wrote:Blake cordish was on KMOX with charlie brennan this morning...
here are some short notes I made...
Blake wanted to hammer these points basically
On residential...
there will indeed be 1200 res. units in this development...most important piece of the development...in vibrant cities, there must be people on the streets, he used sunday nights as an example...Many units will have home plate views, "absolutely spectacular" views
on retail...
It is not appropriate to discuss specific retailers or restuarants at this time but some will be local rest/retailers and some will be national rest/retailers but they will be "very unique and one of a kind" and or new to the region...
On development and financing...
he hammered away that since day one the city has had access to our books and quotes from contractors..."We have opened our books completely and comprehensively from day one, every peice of paper we have on BPV has been made avaliable to the city"
TIF money will go to infrastructure (city streets, sidewalks, utilities, and PARKING)
BPV is a very unique development, no other city has a plot of land like this anywhere in the heart of DT.... we will build this to fit into the fabric of DT and "WE WANT SPIN OFF EFFECTS" I.E. he doesn't want this to be an island, it is just as important to cordish that more things are built up around the south end of DT to increase their return on investment, as anyone...
He would not state their target return on investment but he stated it was in the single digits..
i scribbled some notes while driving and the rest is from memory...hope this is helpfull to the forum...
^Good Stuff! thanks!
Thanks. I feel a whole lot better about the whole situation now.
Even though the article was wrong I wonder if it didn't serve a purpose and light a little more of a fire under Cordish, the Cardinals and the city?
I'm still picturing in a few years watching an ESPN Sunday night Cardinal game on TV where they come back from commercial breaks and they feature a long "beauty" shot from the BPV showing numerous people hanging out on condo decks watching the game.
- 5,433
MattonArsenal wrote:St. Louis UP meeting please.
We're a group of busy people, so busy that we haven't met in months.
I know there were mixed feelings about the current Busch Stadium among members of our group. However, I think that we can rally behind Ballpark Village, as it generally fits with our objective of striving for a more urban, denser Saint Louis.
markofucity- You made many good points in your post above. One reason I think we should resurrect STL-UP is the successful media coverage we generated for the condos at Lindell and Euclid. Without our group, I'm not convinced that our side of the story would've been told.
We have a similar perception problem with Ballpark Village. Since the project has been mischaracterized as a shameless money grab from the greedy Cardinals owners, it's important to (1) set the record straight about the incentives offered and (2) show that there is strong community support for this project. Your list above has excellent talking points to get us started.
So, is anyone else interested in resurrecting STL-UP?
- 1,493
Bump the STL-UP meeting thread and post on the blog.ThreeOneFour wrote:So, is anyone else interested in resurrecting STL-UP?
Yeah, I wouldn't want an exciting and vibrant district of shops and restaurants a quick jot from my office either. Nope.
Who wants to get STL-UP going? I certainly would be interested in doing something. But the comment about us being busy people is no joke with me. I'm working 37-43 hrs a week and taking 15 hours of class, so I am literally booked solid. I'd be happy to attend anything and work on it, but I definitely don't have the time to be a organizer like Jive was for the Tower, or Trent and others did for McDonalds.
- 1,026
I just sent the following to the Mayor's Office. Hopefully they'll get the spin machine going. They do, afterall, have (slightly) more resources than we do.
Dear Mayor's Office:
I know you guys read the UrbanSTL forum. Well, I'm a regular over there and as you probably know a good number of us are quite upset at the improper characterization the new Ballpark Village proposal has reeived in the press. As you are no doubt aware, both the Post and KMOX have painted the proposal as "rich cardinal owners now want public money to fund the BPV." Mclellan even compared it to the Kiel project (that never materialized) and KMOX even recently suggested that money for the village would be taken out of funds that could go to schools and the like. No one in the media (with the one, glowing exception, of KFNS - a sports radio show of all things) has botherred to explain that the "public money" used would merely be a percentage of the taxes the development itself would generate - money that we would NOT HAVE but for the village - not money that is comming out of schools and the like (and actually the development would likely lead to MORE tax revenue for schools).
I know that this project hasn't even been officially announced yet but I really feel that your office needs to nip this in the bud. Get the facts out. Get your pitch out - EVERYWHERE. If not, you cede the field and allow misinformation to frame the entire debate.
I truly believ that this could be the biggest thing in St. Louis since the arch - and I fear that I see where this debate is going. People are going to make up their minds quickly on non-facts (i.e. those rich %$# shouldn't get any money from us). Please, please, please exercise a little spin control ....
Sincerely,
Mark Leinauer
PS. Thank you for reading our forum. We know you do.
Dear Mayor's Office:
I know you guys read the UrbanSTL forum. Well, I'm a regular over there and as you probably know a good number of us are quite upset at the improper characterization the new Ballpark Village proposal has reeived in the press. As you are no doubt aware, both the Post and KMOX have painted the proposal as "rich cardinal owners now want public money to fund the BPV." Mclellan even compared it to the Kiel project (that never materialized) and KMOX even recently suggested that money for the village would be taken out of funds that could go to schools and the like. No one in the media (with the one, glowing exception, of KFNS - a sports radio show of all things) has botherred to explain that the "public money" used would merely be a percentage of the taxes the development itself would generate - money that we would NOT HAVE but for the village - not money that is comming out of schools and the like (and actually the development would likely lead to MORE tax revenue for schools).
I know that this project hasn't even been officially announced yet but I really feel that your office needs to nip this in the bud. Get the facts out. Get your pitch out - EVERYWHERE. If not, you cede the field and allow misinformation to frame the entire debate.
I truly believ that this could be the biggest thing in St. Louis since the arch - and I fear that I see where this debate is going. People are going to make up their minds quickly on non-facts (i.e. those rich %$# shouldn't get any money from us). Please, please, please exercise a little spin control ....
Sincerely,
Mark Leinauer
PS. Thank you for reading our forum. We know you do.
P.S. I sent the mayor a spell checked version
- 6,775
markofucity wrote:P.S. I sent the mayor a spell checked version
LOL. That was my next question.
- 5,433
I was going to post something on the STL-UP blog, but I'm having trouble accessing my Blogspot account and I may need to create a new one.
I'm heading out of town on Friday, so I won't have the chance to post something there anytime soon. However, I will work on letter(s) to the editors of the Post-Dispatch and the Suburban Journals. I hadn't originally planned to craft a letter to the latter, but I became steamed after reading the predictably uninformed rants of Ballpark Village opponents.
Until we get enough people and/or a leader for advancing this particular cause, I recommend we keep writing letters to the local media to show our support for Ballpark Village and to clarify the way in which this project will be financed...
I'm heading out of town on Friday, so I won't have the chance to post something there anytime soon. However, I will work on letter(s) to the editors of the Post-Dispatch and the Suburban Journals. I hadn't originally planned to craft a letter to the latter, but I became steamed after reading the predictably uninformed rants of Ballpark Village opponents.
Until we get enough people and/or a leader for advancing this particular cause, I recommend we keep writing letters to the local media to show our support for Ballpark Village and to clarify the way in which this project will be financed...
I'm interested. It'd be nice to meet many of the people that post here regularly or that have an interest in the downtown movement. My questions are:
- What skills sets and time commitment are necessary
- Is this group semi-permanent or aimed specifically to support BPV?
- What skills sets and time commitment are necessary
- Is this group semi-permanent or aimed specifically to support BPV?
MattnSTL wrote:Who wants to get STL-UP going? I certainly would be interested in doing something. But the comment about us being busy people is no joke with me. I'm working 37-43 hrs a week and taking 15 hours of class, so I am literally booked solid. I'd be happy to attend anything and work on it, but I definitely don't have the time to be a organizer like Jive was for the Tower, or Trent and others did for McDonalds.
- 1,493
It's semi-permenant. Here are the STLup Threads.innov8ion wrote:
- What skills sets and time commitment are necessary
- Is this group semi-permanent or aimed specifically to support BPV?
http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t ... ight=stlup
http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t ... ight=stlup
http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t ... ight=stlup
I'll admit to being something of an armchair urbanist of late. Summer really took a lot out of me, and getting the school year started, with basketball has left me little time. I get pretty behind even checking the forums, which I always hate, because I feel I might miss something.
I can't take credit for being anything of a leader for the McDonalds issue. I haven't been involved (past a couple of times) in the recall effort, though I'm not completely convinced it is the best path in that case, I still support it. I'd give more credit to Doug Duckworth, for being so passionate about it.
But if there was ever a project that could use some advocacy groups behind it, I'd say its this one. Especially getting out the right info to the people. Even my parents were against the development until I told them that it wasn't tax money that we were giving them upfront, it was basically like a rebate.
I'd be up for an STLUP meeting, but I don't have much time. I don't leave Webster most nights until about 6, and have open gym from 7:30-9:30 on T + Th.
We need BPV to be spectacular, not a $60 million dissappointment.
I can't take credit for being anything of a leader for the McDonalds issue. I haven't been involved (past a couple of times) in the recall effort, though I'm not completely convinced it is the best path in that case, I still support it. I'd give more credit to Doug Duckworth, for being so passionate about it.
But if there was ever a project that could use some advocacy groups behind it, I'd say its this one. Especially getting out the right info to the people. Even my parents were against the development until I told them that it wasn't tax money that we were giving them upfront, it was basically like a rebate.
I'd be up for an STLUP meeting, but I don't have much time. I don't leave Webster most nights until about 6, and have open gym from 7:30-9:30 on T + Th.
We need BPV to be spectacular, not a $60 million dissappointment.
