If a business idea is good, you don't need to negotiate guarantees and penalties
Right. I imagine Google, Microsoft, Apple, [insert any business that has a "good business idea"] never enter into contracts with guarantees or penalties in them. Those would be silly things to negotiate.
That McClellan's an idiot? The city did not enter into negotiations because they knew it would never happen. They entered into negotiations because it's a massive project, and that's what you do on massive (and non-massive) projects.
Now, I have no problem with the proposition that the Cardinals had no intention of building BPV or that the city doubted that they would or that the likely of it succeeding was low. But to suggest thtat those are the only reasons that they entered into negotiations (and more ridiculously, that entering into negotiations somehow serves as evidence that it would never happen) is just idiotic.
Not that anyone cares, but today I am very optimistic about st. louis, especially if we get this deal with china to be a hub for air freight = $$$
Also, BPV will be built, even though centene's not a part of it. Oh well. I predict by 2011, there will be cranes filling the skies of downtown and clayton, and chinese jets and immigrants landing at lambert. And, there will be a new president, the economic condition of the country will shift, and the dollar will become stronger.
Also, ultra feminists will no longer have a say in anything...and Al Sharpton will be exiled...
I agree. Not all is lost. It was a bad blow but oh well; everyone was pretty excited about downtown prior to November, they will be again soon as well. Something will be built there and hopefully it will start in the next three months. That will give them time to at least be somewhat prepared for 2009 all start game. If the MX financing comes through in mid-year then that project will also get going with a 2011 finishing date.
Look we all hoped downtown will get better over night and it seemed like it was on its way to. But the economy sucked and set us back. How long? Probably a year or two. But Sh*t happens sometimes. Schnucks will be opening early next year and so will the Chemical building and well as Park Pacific. 2010 will see the Arcade and Robert Tower open up and as previously mentioned 2011 looks to be big as well. We are still moving, we just hit a little road bump.
I understand what Bill M. is saying but the standard practice is that public finance is first in a project and last out. State-of-the-art practice now proposes that it's possible for private investors to carry 100 percent of the risk if they have the right information required to manage their risks.
A stumbling block for the Village may be the inexperience of the Cardinal organization. I don't know how or why a sports corporation has the intellect and expertise to develop real estate.
The media reports and stories also suggest that the process involved quite a lot of hogs at the tough behavior -- each party fighting for the largest share of public subsidy.
Matt wrote:I understand what Bill M. is saying but the standard practice is that public finance is first in a project and last out. State-of-the-art practice now proposes that it's possible for private investors to carry 100 percent of the risk if they have the right information required to manage their risks.
A stumbling block for the Village may be the inexperience of the Cardinal organization. I don't know how or why a sports corporation has the intellect and expertise to develop real estate.
The media reports and stories also suggest that the process involved quite a lot of hogs at the tough behavior -- each party fighting for the largest share of public subsidy.
Actually, several members of the ownership group of the baseball Cardinals are quite well versed in real estate development (that is how some were able to generate enough wealth to purchase the team in the first place). I think another part of the discussion is how difficult Centenne has proven to be - something this complex is not a single issue discussion.
Hmmmmm.....Maybe they should worry about that health hazard next to the stadium too.
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 2:54 PM CDT
St. Louis Cardinals to mount recycling effort around Busch Stadium
St. Louis Business Journal
The St. Louis Cardinals plan to announce Friday afternoon the beginning of a new recycling program for debris left by fans.
According to a release, effective Opening Day, March 31, all paper, aluminum and plastic products in and around Busch Stadium in downtown St. Louis will be collected into large, silver recycling bins.
Such recycling efforts beyond the ballpark itself into tailgating areas is one of the first such efforts in Major League Baseball, according to the release.
Joining the Cardinals in the effort are civic group Downtown St. Louis Partnership and St. Patrick Center, which provides services for homeless men and women. All employees hired on the Downtown St. Louis Partnership's Clean Team will come from St. Patrick Center's employment program, the release stated.
^That's nice, but I have a feeling that drunken tailgaters will continue to toss their bottles in the grass or parking lot. I usually end up picking up some of their trash on my way into work the next day. At least this should help the parking operators who never seem to be able to find time to empty the trash cans in the lots.
^ The stadium's going to have to pick up after people if they want to recycle. I'm sure there are plenty of fans who are more consientious.. but there are plenty more who aren't. Cleaning up and recycling just has to be treated as part of the cost of doing business.
Those of us who live close to the stadium have had enough of the cans, bottles and cups after Cardinal games. And this is not to mention the planters overturned and plants tosse on sidewalks and streets.
Tysalpha wrote:^ The stadium's going to have to pick up after people if they want to recycle. I'm sure there are plenty of fans who are more consientious.. but there are plenty more who aren't. Cleaning up and recycling just has to be treated as part of the cost of doing business.
They always clean up inside the stadium... my point was that it's nice to see the Cards helping out to pick up the stuff some of the fans leave behind in the lots and streets outside of Busch.
Bill M's article reeks of ignorance and the chicken little syndrome. Remember that article when he predicted the 40 shutdown would be the apocalypse? How has that turned out?
I can't stand the articles by B M a lot, cause he BM's on everything. That's so true about the "disastrous" highway forty shut down.
I think he represents the problem of St. Louis (or the model scrutinizing "show me" st. louisan) - his scrutiny, pessimism, and criticisms do nothing for the morale of the city.
phoaddict wrote:I can't stand the articles by B M a lot, cause he BM's on everything. That's so true about the "disastrous" highway forty shut down.
I think he represents the problem of St. Louis (or the model scrutinizing "show me" st. louisan) - his scrutiny, pessimism, and criticisms do nothing for the morale of the city.
LOL! Yeah, it's all his fault. If he didn't write for the Post, then BPV would be almost finished by now.
phoaddict wrote:I can't stand the articles by B M a lot, cause he BM's on everything. That's so true about the "disastrous" highway forty shut down.
I think he represents the problem of St. Louis (or the model scrutinizing "show me" st. louisan) - his scrutiny, pessimism, and criticisms do nothing for the morale of the city.
LOL! Yeah, it's all his fault. If he didn't write for the Post, then BPV would be almost finished by now.
Oh right, cause that's exactly what i said, CS, that he was the reason BPV isn't finished now...
^ I don't get it. Don't the Chinese establishments on Olive exist because a large amount of Chinese reside in that area? This isn't the 19th Century, the environment has changed. What are we supposed to do, move all the Chinese from UCity to downtown???
There are just too many fallacious assumptions and arguments in McClellan's articles. BM isn't paid to make sense, he's paid to stir things up; however nonsensical he may be in the process. And isn't BM an acronym for bowel movement?
Why doesn't Bill M. just tell everybody where the should because of ethnicity. Heck, my wife and I have to go find different places to live now. What is amazing about that article is that the Post-Dispatch editors would ever publish it.
When the owners of the Cardinals began talking of a ballpark "village" I had imagined something similar to Wrigleyville with fans on rooftops watching games. I am not sure we could ever recreate St. Louis' chinatown as it once existed but the scalle and atmosphere of that area may have better suited the ballbark village idea. A 27 story office tower was never really what I had imagined for that area but I certainly drank the Kool aid. In hindsight Centene pulling out may be a blessing. Look at what glass office towers have down for the gateway mall. Perhaps instead of Hop Alley we should recreate Real Estate Row there. Just a thought.
Given that the doomsayer BM (I love this as a nickname for him) has decreed that BPV "has been exposed as hoax", I am suddenly more optimistic that the project will be a success. His position of influence is an absolute waste because he never suggests realistic solutions.
This Chinatown idea reminds me of his suggestion about a decade ago where he wanted people to wear short suit pants in the summer time. It is interesting, but IMO will gain absolutely zero traction. Do you think the suits at the Cardinals are going to build a San Fran type Chinatown? I think not.
Although a Chinatown would be a really cool asset for the city, I don't think BPV would be the best place to do it.
Here is a much better idea.
Since Hop Alley is an awesome name. Let's just open a giant beer garden on the pujols pond. We could surround the garden with Office buildings that have giant bars on the bottom floor. Schlafly, AB, O'Fallon Brewery, Flat Branch (here in Columbia), Square One, and Boulevard (From KC) could all sponsor bars surrounding the Garden. Then, plant trees, put out hundreds and hundreds of picnic tables, and put a giant Chinese Style pavillion like the one in Munich in the middle.
When the Cardinals suck, come Oktoberfest time no one will care because we will have a month's worth of celebration in our brand new biergarden.
When the Cardinals are in the playoffs, it will be the coolest gathering place for baseball games in the country.
We could also bring in a ton of tourism dollars as people come in from all over the nation to experience the closest thing to a Munich style Oktoberfest here in the US.
Then we could call the beer garden Hop Alley.
I may have contradicted myself by stating that this idea is more realistic, but I definitely think it s better.
Sorry about the edits. I will try to post a picture of the beergarden in Munich later.
550 just interviewed Dewitt Jr during the rain delay and he said the ballpark village was top priority. Said the centene withdrawl just causes them to go back to their original plans and it should allow them to get started.
I hope we get the towers from the BV rendrings as well as a new Centene tower behind pointe 400 or maybe in the MW tower floors 1-27/81!!!
