urbanSTL

tejada is right, and there would still be risk for the ground floor bars, but those could also be converted into retail/office if necessary.



Also, if they didn't like the way the beergarden was working, by restoring the street grid they could eventually break up the remaining land and sell off the undeveloped parts. This would actually decrease their risk of having a st. louis centre/union station type dead project on their hands



And, if we really want to get wild and crazy, the Cardinals could acquire the garages on either side of the property, tear them down, and build the world's largest parking garage underneath. This way, we could maximize the urban area while getting rid of those eyesores.



Unfortunately, the point is probably moot and this is all a pipe dream.



Nevertheless, I stand by my initial point- the fact that BM says it is a hoax makes me think the project will succeed.

Looks like we have another Female on the forum, welcome realclear.

That BM article... wow. So he's proposing to create a chinese ghetto next to ballpark village, plant a school there, and expect it to bloom into a cultral asset to the city? Uhh, it doesn't work that way.



Here's my proposition (feel free to shoot it down): 10-15 story mixed use. First floor retail, floors 2-5 parking, 6-10 office, 11-15 residential.

Or even something shorter, like what migueltejada mentioned, so as not to threaten the stature of Busch.



All we want is a couple functional buildings, that can accommodate cars and people...

Doug wrote:You've erased the place and the people but want to use the name for marketing? That's unethical.

But that's what they do in suburbia. You know, like Pleasant View, Oak Grove, Indian Trail, Gravois Bluffs, Twin Pines Mall (or is it Lone Pine Mall?).

Looks like we have another Female on the forum, welcome realclear.

Male.



I'm curious as to why you thought female though...

After reading all the posts in response to McClellan's article, I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, but I actually like the idea of reestablishing a Chinatown at the old Hop Alley site. I know it isn't the kind of organic development that we'd all like to see happen, but we certainly wouldn't be the only city building a Chinatown from scratch...and at least here it would have some historical significance. Like expat in Milwaukee, I had originally imagined Ballpark Village on the scale of Wrigleyville, with a true neighborhood feel; I think this scale would be perfect for a Chinatown development. It could include a business corridor with a gateway, some low-rise housing, and perhaps some cultural amenities like a Museum of Chinese Culture or a library and a small Chinese garden. I'm not trying to be culturally insensitive, and I certainly wouldn't want Chinese people/businesses to feel like they had to locate in one particular place or that someone who wasn't Chinese would be excluded from living or operating a business in the area, but I do think that having a large number of Chinese-run businesses in the same area would tend to increase their business by making them part of a destination, both for Chinese and non-Chinese residents alike (and tourists, as well). And being right by a Metro stop, a Chinatown at Hop Alley would be easily accessible by public transportation for a large segment of the population, including new immigrants who often don't have their own vehicles (and possibly eligible for TOD dollars). Imagine how much nicer it would be to have a walkable Chinatown than the spread out suburban mess along Olive!

He thought the Flickr account was yours. It's a females, but from Seattle.

ha, I didn't understand that either.





I LOVE the idea of a more urban and "real" chinatown, but I think it could be somewhere else, perhaps just north of downtown? ALong Tucker? I want the buildings on the BPV site to be larger than 2-5 story "chinatown" buildings. I love how the original buildings of Hop Alley had balconies covering the sidewalks. why in the F did we get rid of that concept in STL? It clearly works well in New Orleans.

An urban chinatown is a nice idea but it simply isn't something planners can create. The best they can do is create affordable housing and retail space downtown and hope something takes hold. But entire ethnic communities do not pack up and move unless something catastrophic happens in their neighborhood, requiring their movement.

Jeez, people, lighten up. McClellan's columns are never meant to be taken seriously. He's just kidding around, like always. It's entertainment.

The Chinatown idea is alright, but I would just like to see University City give them the right to call that area of Olive "Chinatown". Right now that area of Olive is suburban and rather autocentric but if we gave them incentive to build it up with a more urban design who knows what can come of that area. Near Busch I would like to see them bring back the street grid and build relatively tall, 10-15 story (So one could see inside the stadium from their balconies) commercial, hotel, and apartment buildings with retail and unique cultural museums on the bottom. Call it "International Village" and give tax breaks to small business owners and ethnically diverse businesses. Have a social plaza somewhere in the village and an amphitheater for concerts with a whole bunch of flags representing all of the different ethic groups that have set up shop in the new "International Ballpark Village" and throw events and concerts that encourage diversity and education. This idea is probably too much for our city leaders to comprehend though. When will they ever realize that its the small businesses and people that make a city great.....NOT commercialized cookie cutter villages.

expat in Milwaukee wrote:When the owners of the Cardinals began talking of a ballpark "village" I had imagined something similar to Wrigleyville with fans on rooftops watching games. I am not sure we could ever recreate St. Louis' chinatown as it once existed but the scalle and atmosphere of that area may have better suited the ballbark village idea. A 27 story office tower was never really what I had imagined for that area but I certainly drank the Kool aid. In hindsight Centene pulling out may be a blessing. Look at what glass office towers have down for the gateway mall. Perhaps instead of Hop Alley we should recreate Real Estate Row there. Just a thought.

The more I think about Centene pulling out, the more I agree with sentiments like this. Was anyone on here even all that excited about the architectural merits of a bland rectangular tower being erected on what is/was supposed to be a residential-entertainment district? I, too, envisioned mixed use office-residential-retail buildings with luxurious balconies and fans watching the games from their homes or apartments. I figured the base floors would have an assortment of quality restaurants and bars to choose from to keep the area interesting all year long. I never really understood how a seperate corporate campus was going to coincide with that goal.



No doubt losing Centene hurts downtown, but it seems that this isnt the site for an all-office tower. Let's hope St. Louis can get a new office tower in the works for elsewhere in downtown though.

I think everyone already knows this but you just can't make a new "Chinatown". It's an evolution...can you imagine a new housing development where there is a mandate that only Chinese people could live there? It's a shame Hop Alley is gone but there's alot a shame concerning those type of things in this town. Alot.



But if I I've said it once I've said it a thousand times......imagine a North STL city that was a long time Chinese area...or Peurto Rican....or Cuban....or Bosnian. Anything but whatever the heck happened. It prolly wouldn't be a destroyed warzone type place. Take from this what ya want.

I thought North City was once predominantly Irish, Italian, German and Polish just to name a few of its ethnic enclaves.

^^It was. And it was fine.

^ Maybe you should research White Flight and then you will realize what has happened to North St. Louis and stop making silly assumptions about what was and would have been. I hate people who say, "oh my gosh look what they have done with the city" (whoever "they" are). Most of whats wrong with older American inner cities are a direct result of white racism and disinvestment, urban renewal, suburban growth etc. etc. Anyone who has taken a class on the history of American cities should no this. I guess you never signed up for that course, but I can agree St. Louis should have been attracting immigrants a long time ago. Maybe St. Louis was scared that they were some kind of illegal drug smugglers or terrorist. Just like lifting the $500 loss limit will bring in Mafioso types from big cities like Chicago, LA, and New York.......like St. Louis and every other major city in America doesn't already have criminal affiliations, how do you think the drugs get to North St. Louis in the first place .

^^I'm not saying that.

and a 360 back to topic of thread.

360 WOULD TAKE YOU NOWHERE. I THINK YOU MEAN 180 DEGREES.

I guess you would be right!



LOL



Let's do that!

phoaddict wrote:I think one big challenge is the balance of creating a locale that would appeal to fun seeking cardinal fans after a ball game as well as a place that's good enough to attract people on off seasons and non cardinal game days.



So far we've had suggestions like Chinatown, a giant beer garden, a field with grass, a picnic pavilion...



Wrigleyville is the epitome of a "ballpark village"...but wrigleyville is well placed in Lakeview...it would be as if busch stadium were right next to soulard or something and bars would naturally evolve around the stadium....so I fear such modern ballpark villlage would be too forced if not creatively executed.

And this is precisely the point. The whole BPV thing is an artificial construct -- "let's plan a whole district!" -- instead of simply building the damned stadium and letting the surrounding area "naturally evolve." Except that would have blown the whole flim-flam about a "world class development" that the stadium would spur (as long as you subsidize the crap out of it).