I'm a little more optimistic. I'm thinking Centene will break ground around march, so maybe 4-5 months. Hopefully Cordish will be ready to go then as well.
I still don't understand why they haven't at least put up some dramatic signage to let passers-by see what's coming. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
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^ Yeah, it would be a simple way to keep this crater from being the butt of countless jokes.
Don't get me wrong, I think this thing will get built sooner or later, but how many dates have the Cardinals and/or Cordish thrown out now, only to keep pushing it back while insisting they can still build the first phase and have it ready in time for the '09 All-Star Game?
Don't get me wrong, I think this thing will get built sooner or later, but how many dates have the Cardinals and/or Cordish thrown out now, only to keep pushing it back while insisting they can still build the first phase and have it ready in time for the '09 All-Star Game?
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I am betting that it won't be completed in time. I hope I am wrong about that. Also when will there be new renderings? Is there even a rendering of the Centene tower?
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I put the question out about renderings around 6 posts back. There has been no rendering of Centene Center 1 or 2. In addition, Cordish has yet to throw out any new renderings of the project, which would have to be almost completely re-done, as the entire massing of the project was shot to the proverbial sh1t when Centene announced their involvement. I am very confused about some of the projects going on in StL right now. It seems like renderings are always being cranked out to the press and city leaders in other cities, yet we are made to wait AGES for anything of importance here. Centene and Montgomery Bank are really killing me right now.
And I am also curious as to why (just like above) they have yet to put up any type of a contruction fence with anything at all written on it. I and many others in the city would feel MUCH better about this project if they displayed any type of interest in the land. I know they are working hard, but in all outward appearances it seems as though they aren't too concerned about this one. Update on my personal height speculation; new office tower in Baltimore, only 24 stories, 350'.
Hate posting so many times in a row, but I'm browsing more and more projects and it is becoming more and more of a mystery as to why Centene will only be going for 27 stories here. Minus the 2 floors of retail, that means 700,000 sq ft. will be built in 25 stories. The NORM for basically any project I have looked at lately has been about 30 stories for 500,000 feet. Either this is going to be the bulkiest tower in the cbd BY FAR, or Centene has their numbers wrong. Going by the norm it would seem that Centene would be shooting for something closer to 40 stories, as opposed to 27.
newstl2020 wrote:Either this is going to be the bulkiest tower in the cbd BY FAR, or Centene has their numbers wrong. Going by the norm it would seem that Centene would be shooting for something closer to 40 stories, as opposed to 27.
I would expect the bulkiest tower in the CBD by far. Remember, Centene was ready to build a campus-style development before Mayor Slay really pushed the downtown site. I would expect a thick box-like tower similar to what was proposed in Clayton. However, I REALLY hope they prove me wrong!
So, with all of these delays, it now brings to question the original timelines the city imposed on the Cardinals for Ballpark Village. Wasn't there a minimum amount of development that had to occur and be done by 2009 or the city could fine the Cardinals? Anyone remember what that was?
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newstl2020 wrote:Hate posting so many times in a row, but I'm browsing more and more projects and it is becoming more and more of a mystery as to why Centene will only be going for 27 stories here. Minus the 2 floors of retail, that means 700,000 sq ft. will be built in 25 stories. The NORM for basically any project I have looked at lately has been about 30 stories for 500,000 feet. Either this is going to be the bulkiest tower in the cbd BY FAR, or Centene has their numbers wrong. Going by the norm it would seem that Centene would be shooting for something closer to 40 stories, as opposed to 27.
I tend to agree - the rendering/model we were shown following this announcement didn't look all that bulky - that was the curved tower thing. I don't remember the Clayton project being particularly bulky at all - with retail and added parking under the tower as opposed to next to it (that was the land that Clayton attempted to take) this tower should be taller.
I would take the number of floors they have announced with a grain of salt. They are the business occupying the building, not the architects building it. I think that they can only give a rough estimate at this point based entirely on the floor space that they need.
Let's wait for the rendering from the architectual firm. I doubt those blocks of wood were anything but stand-ins for an unfinished design. To the general populace, 27 vs. 35 stories doesn't sound like a big difference and it's better to underestimate than overstimate in an early announcement. I wouldn't take the number of floors that seriously as it is pretty clear that they don't have a finalized rendering to release, just a number of floor space that they would require.
Let's wait for the rendering from the architectual firm. I doubt those blocks of wood were anything but stand-ins for an unfinished design. To the general populace, 27 vs. 35 stories doesn't sound like a big difference and it's better to underestimate than overstimate in an early announcement. I wouldn't take the number of floors that seriously as it is pretty clear that they don't have a finalized rendering to release, just a number of floor space that they would require.
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Ok so I saw this one coming out of Houston and couldn't pass up the opportunity to share this with the rest of you. If we get ANYTHING close to this... =D> . 46 stories, 630 feet tall, containing 1 million sq. feet of space. I'm thinking this exact building, at 530 feet (700,000 sq ft instead of 1,000,000) would be absolutely perfect for Centene and the city. Beautiful modern design. Too bad Centene wouldn't consider building out all 1.2 mil of their proposed space in a single tower. I digress.
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I can almost see the Arch's reflection (which is a plus to Lumiere' Building too). Nice image/rendering.
Random thought of the day:
It'd be nice if BPV could resurrect some of the city's classic signs, like maybe this?
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It'd be nice if BPV could resurrect some of the city's classic signs, like maybe this?
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I went to the Mavs/Grizzlies game last night @ the AA center in Dallas. I was blown away by the Victory area outside the arena. The walk into the stadium from the South is amazing. It is very bright and exciting. I think something like this would be really cool for BPV or TBD...
http://www.victorymedianetwork.com/page ... &page_id=1
http://www.victorymedianetwork.com/page ... &page_id=1
Man, I love St. Louis' old signage. How "big city" it must have felt. It would be cool to have some of these signs back and half ones that are a "modern equivalent".
The old signs are cute but gee, I'd prefer we have signs that actually mean something today. You know, like living in the present and stuff?
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There was a nice article in the EXPLORE travel section of the Post about the KC Power and Light district. Sounds like it is supposed to be finished up by March to host the Big 12 BBALL Championships. Anyone think their finishing timeline could correspond with the start of Ballpark Village? Would it be in their interest to wait on St. Louis until KC is done?
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^ Similar to Pinnacle finishing Lumiere Place before proceeding further with the South County casino.
Maybe they need to get some cash flow before diving into another project. Not saying they are in trouble, but can you imagine the expenses of constructing two mega projects at the say time with no income from either.
Just makes the balance sheets look a little better.
Maybe they need to get some cash flow before diving into another project. Not saying they are in trouble, but can you imagine the expenses of constructing two mega projects at the say time with no income from either.
Just makes the balance sheets look a little better.
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speaking of old signs .... (and I beleive someone has floated this idea before) would anyone support "re-painting" the various brick wll advertisements throughout st. louis?
^That's a great idea! (I may have floated it out years ago or at least thought about it.)
It could be done a couple ways:
Repainting like they were in the old days (Falstaff Beer, Lion Gas, etc.) They could be 'exhibits' courtesy the Missouri Historical Society.
They could be retro ads from current advertisers: i.e. Busch Bavarian Beer
Or they could be new, hip stuff.
A blend of all wouldn't be bad.
It could be done a couple ways:
Repainting like they were in the old days (Falstaff Beer, Lion Gas, etc.) They could be 'exhibits' courtesy the Missouri Historical Society.
They could be retro ads from current advertisers: i.e. Busch Bavarian Beer
Or they could be new, hip stuff.
A blend of all wouldn't be bad.
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MattonArsenal wrote:^ Similar to Pinnacle finishing Lumiere Place before proceeding further with the South County casino.
Maybe they need to get some cash flow before diving into another project. Not saying they are in trouble, but can you imagine the expenses of constructing two mega projects at the say time with no income from either.
Just makes the balance sheets look a little better.
That makes perfect sense, but I wish if this is the case, the Cardinals and Cordish would just level with the public. I know I'm hardly the only person that's antsy about the lack of action here, even if it makes great sense from a business standpoint to wait until the Kansas City P&L District is up and running.
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But isn't Cordish working on a few other big projects as well? Louisville, Charlotte, Houston, and Toronto to name a few
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bpe235 wrote:But isn't Cordish working on a few other big projects as well? Louisville, Charlotte, Houston, and Toronto to name a few
Yes. I highly, highly doubt that KC Power and Light has any affect whatsoever on BPV. I would be very hesitant to draw any conclusions to that effect.
The simple conclusion is that they are just not ready to start because there are still planning steps to accomplish. Plus, Cordish has to line up tenants and design the structure to meet their needs. Sure, in some other cities you could just build a building(s) and lease out all the space later, but in Saint Louis, to get tenants on board it may be necessary to cater to their needs - like Centene. At this point, I would rather see them try and lure another couple of large commercial clients because it is not going to be even close to ready for the All Star game anyway. All the while, hopefully the housing market looks better and additional stories are added to the residential components.
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markofucity wrote:speaking of old signs .... (and I beleive someone has floated this idea before) would anyone support "re-painting" the various brick wll advertisements throughout st. louis?
Maybe the signs on the old railroad tressles as well, such as the one over Lansdowne by the Metro stop or the one over Kingshighway South of Home Depot.
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stlmark wrote:Maybe the signs on the old railroad tressles as well, such as the one over Lansdowne by the Metro stop or the one over Kingshighway South of Home Depot.
I would love that. I believe someone - Mike Daus, maybe? - approached Union Pacific about restoring the paint job on the Kingshighway tressle, but they shot the idea down.