urbanSTL

newstl2020 wrote:So we effectively have construction of all 3 towers proposed in the centene model now at the same time, officially, for sure, no questions?

I think only 1 tower is definate right now, and that would be Centene's 700,000 sq. ft. office tower #1. Their second tower is proposed and most likely will get built, but maybe not for a couple years.



The other tower in the Ballpark Village is likely a condo tower, although, nothing concrete from Cordish has been provided. Otherwise it is possible that the 250 condos will be spread through-out low and mid-rise buildings in the development.



My best guess is that we'll get the 27-story Centene tower and a 20-35 story condo/hotel tower as part of Phase I.

Today's Daily Record confirms that several law firms are now interested in either the Centene building itself, or downtown. It also indicates, however, that a "musical chairs" scenario is brewing.



Armstrong Teasdale, which has Centene as a client, stated that Centene's new building is "very high" on its list of possible locations. It was considering moving into the proposed Centene HQ in Clayton. Armstrong's current lease in Met Square is due to expire in two years.



Kenneth Luther, the executive director of Thompson Coburn, said that the Centene move "sort of validates that Ballpark Village is a real option." Thompson Coburn's lease in the US Bank building expires in 2010, and is considering renewing, or relocating elsewhere in downtown, or in Clayton.



The article lists several other significant downtown law firms whose leases are due to expire within the next few years.



Lewis Rice & Fingersh, at 500 Broadway Building, is considering renewing its lease when it expires next year, moving to the GenAmerican Building, or moving to a third locatin the Chairman declined to name. BPV is not being considered.



Said another attorney: "You're dealing with a checkers game. If one law firm moves from one location to another, landlords sitting on vacant space get aggressive, so it kind of trickles down."



Barb Geisman says the City is in touch with all firms downtown looking for space.



"We are hopeful that the Centene announcement will not only make it possible to encourage those law firms to remain, but to attract other professional offices to the City," she said.

very funny blues.

I don't know how many people view forums from other cities, but I think it would be really cool if Centene did something different with the land for tower 2. If anyone has seen it, Blue Cross in Chicago built a brand new ~500 ft building a few years back, and now, needing to expand, they are adding an additional 22 stories on top of their existing tower. I would LOVE it if Centene took this approach with their "possible" 550,000 additional sq. ft.

steve wrote:Today's Daily Record confirms that several law firms are now interested in either the Centene building itself, or downtown. It also indicates, however, that a "musical chairs" scenario is brewing.



Armstrong Teasdale, which has Centene as a client, stated that Centene's new building is "very high" on its list of possible locations. It was considering moving into the proposed Centene HQ in Clayton. Armstrong's current lease in Met Square is due to expire in two years.



Kenneth Luther, the executive director of Thompson Coburn, said that the Centene move "sort of validates that Ballpark Village is a real option." Thompson Coburn's lease in the US Bank building expires in 2010, and is considering renewing, or relocating elsewhere in downtown, or in Clayton.



The article lists several other significant downtown law firms whose leases are due to expire within the next few years.



Lewis Rice & Fingersh, at 500 Broadway Building, is considering renewing its lease when it expires next year, moving to the GenAmerican Building, or moving to a third locatin the Chairman declined to name. BPV is not being considered.



Said another attorney: "You're dealing with a checkers game. If one law firm moves from one location to another, landlords sitting on vacant space get aggressive, so it kind of trickles down."



Barb Geisman says the City is in touch with all firms downtown looking for space.



"We are hopeful that the Centene announcement will not only make it possible to encourage those law firms to remain, but to attract other professional offices to the City," she said.

IMO - this is a good thing. There are those who will complain, but companies searching for locations that better suit their business model (location, size, amenities, etc.) is a positive. The thing to remember is that companies are always on the move - it's just a fact.

newstl2020 wrote:I don't know how many people view forums from other cities, but I think it would be really cool if Centene did something different with the land for tower 2. If anyone has seen it, Blue Cross in Chicago built a brand new ~500 ft building a few years back, and now, needing to expand, they are adding an additional 22 stories on top of their existing tower. I would LOVE it if Centene took this approach with their "possible" 550,000 additional sq. ft.

There are a lot of engineering contingencies that would have to be factored into the original building, then. It's not just a matter of making sure the foundation can support the additional weight -- it would also mean leaving enough empty 'core' to support additional elevators, staircases, ventilation, etc. If the expansion never happens, that is all wasted space that could be office cubes. It's really not economical to build office space in this style unless you are certain it's "when", not "if".

just FYI -

those law libraries are just for show anyway. There absolutely worthless. Everything you need is on line - and its updated every twelve seconds. The book are out of date - using them might actually be malpractice.

markofucity wrote:just FYI -

those law libraries are just for show anyway. There absolutely worthless. Everything you need is on line - and its updated every twelve seconds. The book are out of date - using them might actually be malpractice.

Funny and true. I'd be shocked if they move the paper library. Several large law firms I've visited have completely ride themselves of their traditional libraries.

I'd be shocked if they moved it as well ... law libraries are kind of a joke to lawyers. They're actually there just to impress the clients.

ThreeOneFour wrote:All this great news has brought out the boosters, the Debbie Downers, and yes, the comedians as well!



I still think we're underserved by J. Buck's though.

Yes, I know, I know, but if we build any taller it will exceed the height of the Arch - and we all know that isn't allowed.

dweebe wrote:I know that's all BS, but I would die if a Roy's came here. Yes it's a chain, but I love their food.

Well, there are Roy's restaurants in Atlanta, Austin, Dallas, Philly, Baltimore, San Diego, 3 in the Phoenix area , and like 7 or 8 in Florida, so I see no reason why St. Louis shouldn't be able to land one.

DeBaliviere wrote:What, no Rainforest Cafe?

#-o Damn, I knew someone would get left out! There is no Fadó either! Looks like we will have to build taller, or maybe put them underground!



Just thinking about this brings up all sorts of interesting questions. Can you imagine what the valet situation would be like? And, how about the grease trap for this building? It would have to be the size of Chouteau's Pond! Hmmm, now there is an idea...



The real question is...are there enough cougars in St. Louis to prowl the bars of all these places???

markofucity wrote:I'd be shocked if they moved it as well ... law libraries are kind of a joke to lawyers. They're actually there just to impress the clients.

But they're a good place in which to take a nap, right?

I do hope that an ESPN Zone will be in this development. Either that or a Rawlings Sports Bar & Grille.



We need a few national chains to anchor the development and attract tourists.

Jeff707 wrote:

markofucity wrote:I'd be shocked if they moved it as well ... law libraries are kind of a joke to lawyers. They're actually there just to impress the clients.

I like to use the books sometimes, especially if you are given a fishing assignment in which an electronic search would return and unweildy number of cases. Flipping through the index can actually be quite helpful narrowing your thoughts and in coming up with the appropriate search terms for a later electronic search.

True, and statutory research is virtually always easier in print.

I never new there were so many lawyers on this board. Law libraries are fun, im sure, but how about that ballpark village...

what??? you guys don't want to talk about law libraries?

law libraries?? *yawn* :smt015

You can always count on the Post to turn a positive into a negative....Here is the article about Centene from the St. Louis Post:

"City leaders spent last week heralding Centene Corp. as a $2 billion health care services company with plans to bring 1,200 new jobs to Ballpark Village. The glowing characterizations came after Centene's announcement that it would move its headquarters to downtown from Clayton.



Still, there's a less-glamorous side to Centene's story: The company lost money last year. Its shares have fluctuated between $16 and $26.95 apiece in the last 52 weeks, with the price hovering in the low $20s for the last six months. On Friday, shares closed at $21.51, up a penny.



In addition, some on Wall Street have speculated that this midsized company with stiff competition and a relatively low share price could be a takeover target.



Revenue at Centene has grown roughly five-fold since 2002. However, from 2002 to 2005, profit rose at about half that rate. And last year, Centene reported a loss of $43.6 million. Advertisement



Most of Centene's business involves the company managing states' medical programs for the poor and disabled, known as Medicaid. Centene lost its contract with Kansas and chose not to renew with Missouri. The resulting charges helped put the company in the red last year."

More from the article:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... enDocument

Just for comparissons, I thought I would throw this out there for everyone reading the thread.



The Pinnacle all office tower being built in Nashville.





It is 29 stories tall and 435' tall. Total office space is 520,000 sq feet. We haven't gotten designs or heights yet for the Centene project, but I would really love it if the city demanded a higher quality project such as this as opposed to a bland design. I think this is a rather nice design, and will have a great effect on Nashville's skyline. Too bad Centene has allready set on 27 stories, we could have gotten some very significant height in the skyline with 700,000 sq feet and 2 stories of retail going by the dimensions of this tower.



Edit: Not whining, just comparing projects of similar sizes.

tm8951 wrote:You can always count on the Post to turn a positive into a negative...

Perhaps you have some factual data to counter the factual data presented in the story? If not, please return your stipend to the RCGA.

Perhaps you have some factual data to counter the factual data presented in the story? If not, please return your stipend to the RCGA.

Any newspaper has to make choices on which facts are relevant and to present them accordingly. Just because everything is factual, doesn't make it a necessary or relevant article. A paper can select and highlight some facts and minimize others, while simultaneously allowing one side to editorialize more than another, thus suggesting an unecessary disposition to the reader. All of this can be done with out contradicting the factual. Just because something has no contradictions in it, does not mean that it is free from criticism. There are other components to look for: methodology, selectivity, etc.



I don't know where I stand on this article, but I thought I should say something about this.