urbanSTL

From the models, it looks like Centene is respecting the Arch height limit. We should call ourselves the 600 foot city. Or if you add the 400' height above sea level plus the 600' Arch limit, I guess we could be the 1000 foot city.

I doubt the height has anything to do with the Arch, never mind that there is no height limit.

I just want to know how much was spent to create 3d model of downtown



Oh, and where can I get one?!

^For some, it's a psychological thing that defines success. Myself, I'm indifferent.

TimeForGuinness wrote:

Xing wrote:



Those 2 little stubs, the parking garages along the gateway mall, are begging to get filled in with something better.

Loving it...brings much needed density south of the mall.

What i don't see in the model is the 180 room hotel being built for Centene. Is that going in as part of the residential tower?

I don't think that is necessarily a complete model. I'm interested in seeing renderings of BPV as a whole with the new towers. Hopefully they will be released soon.

Gary Kreie wrote:

stlmike wrote:It looks like, in the above rendering, there is space for another tower in the corner and it also looks like the floorplan that involved a plaza is out of the picture. Either that or this model is inaccurate.

This picture was in the Post Dispatch. It still shows the Plaza:

I think that the Post Dispatch could have possibly made this diagram directly out of the old one, coloring the spaces red. Anyway, it doesn't match the model at all.

Very true. It certainly appears as though the podium for Centene Center goes directly up to the street to the north of the BPV tower in the renderings...which would be elimiating the greenspace from the above diagram. I'm all for this, the model appears much more dense.



As a side note, I'm usually against large podiums for towers, such as the one seen in the model for Centene Center. I hope they make it very integrated into the surroundings. Lots of glass would be a nice change of pace in downtown .



Finally, I'm curious as to why Centene hasn't opted for a slimmer tower with slightly more height, as I'm almost positive they will attempt to take advantage of their new tower with some sort of emblem on the top. A more dominant tower (height wise) would provide an excellent vantage point for some serious signage. But hey, I will be very happy as long as this new development contains a lot of light. The brighter the lights, the nicer our entire city looks IMO.

Shimmy wrote:I really don't see why people seem its so important to build higher than the arch.

Me either. I'm much more interested in going for higher density.

Centene project doesn't help first phase of Ballpark Village

By Riddhi Trivedi-St. Clair

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

09/25/2007



Despite the fanfare Sunday surrounding Centene Corp.'s decision to move its headquarters to Ballpark Village from Clayton, the $387 million first phase of the project remains more promise than substance.



Cordish Co., the Baltimore-based developer of that project, has yet to announce a groundbreaking date. Indeed, a general timeline has been pushed back twice — the first time to late summer or early fall from spring 2007, and most recently to as late as early winter.



Long touted as the crown jewel of downtown revitalization, the Cordish development was slated to open by the July 2009 Major League Baseball All-Star Game, to be hosted at Busch Stadium.



But portions of Centene's $250 million office and retail project, which falls in the "future build-out" area of Ballpark Village, may beat the Cordish project — first announced more than two years ago.



Overall, Ballpark Village calls for converting eight acres of land in two phases to seven blocks of entertainment and retail venues, with offices on upper floors of buildings. Phase one of the Cordish development would have 360,000 square feet of retail, 100,000 square feet of offices, and a residential component, which was recently added back to the project after a boost in state incentives.



City leaders and the Cardinals, who own the Ballpark Village site, remain hopeful that most of the retail portion of Cordish's development can be complete by the All-Star Game.



Continue Reading.

Tysalpha wrote:

dweebe wrote:[for real, not sarcastic]St. Louis City totally effed this deal up. Money that should be going to schools or roads will be ending up lining the pockets of the owners/upper management of Centene who I'm 99.9% sure live in Ladue or Frontenac. Can we ever do anything right in this town? This place sucks a**. [/for real, not sarcastic]

Don't be so certain. Several local CEOs and executives live in the Central West End (thus city taxes). Surprise surprise -- many of them like being close to the same cutural institutions we enjoy!

it doesn't matter if you live outside the city - if you work in the city OR live in the city, you pay the 1% city tax.

From the same article.

Bill DeWitt III, senior vice president for business development for the Cardinals, said a potential delay in the Cordish project is a concern, but he is hopeful it can be avoided.



"I am very confident that we will have some things ready … a good chunk of the retail, some restaurants," DeWitt said. "If it's not, it's not. But if it isn't, it won't be for a lack of trying. We are pushing as hard as we can to get it going."



The July deadline, he said, is self-imposed.



The goal is to have at least a significant portion of the retail — the street level venues — open in time for the game.



Events can still be held at Busch Stadium no matter what stage of construction Ballpark Village is in, DeWitt said.



"I get defensive, because, of course, we are trying" to have it open on time, DeWitt said. "If it doesn't happen it doesn't happen. It's not the end of the world."



In a written response to e-mailed questions, Chase Martin, director of development for Ballpark Village, would say only that the project has met every milestone in the approval process.

For those of you that may be Debbie Downers, or simply masochistic, tune in to KETC Thursday night. I bet I know what these guys will be saying...



You know these dudes will be totally stoked about Centene and downtown's future:







(Sorry, I couldn't find a picture of the other three winners...oops... I mean whiners.)

Set to record it already. They are my weekly source on what I should be complaining about more.

^ You know, as a writer and a person I like McLellan; but when it comes to civic projects he has to be one of the most unentheusiastic people on the planet. Are we sure he isn't really living in some retirement community in Florida?

^ I like McClellan as well- but I don't think he gets excited about much of anything.

^ Which is all the more reason he shouldn't even engage in these discussions. At least Ray Hartman will go ballistic from a legitimate counter-perspective ("why aren't we holding out for better!", "we need this tax money for schools" blah blah). McClellan will just say, "build it... don't build it... who cares?"

Boy did I come home to a doozie!



Frankly, I think we should be thankful that when the All-Star game comes, our BPV wont be 3 stories high on national television. Does anyone remember in the playoffs last year when the Cards played in San Diego? They kept showing shots of construction workers watching the game from the towers they were building outside the stadium. Now its clear that they wont be able to get shots like that in our game becuase the game will be at night, but the Home Run Derby would suffice. The crazy thing about this though, it that conceivably, the tower construction will not be Cordish towers, but just the Centene towers... At least they may have upheld our proud city image on internationally televised television.

MattnSTL wrote:Centene project doesn't help first phase of Ballpark Village

By Riddhi Trivedi-St. Clair

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

09/25/2007



Despite the fanfare Sunday surrounding Centene Corp.'s decision to move its headquarters to Ballpark Village from Clayton, the $387 million first phase of the project remains more promise than substance.



Cordish Co., the Baltimore-based developer of that project, has yet to announce a groundbreaking date. Indeed, a general timeline has been pushed back twice — the first time to late summer or early fall from spring 2007, and most recently to as late as early winter.



Long touted as the crown jewel of downtown revitalization, the Cordish development was slated to open by the July 2009 Major League Baseball All-Star Game, to be hosted at Busch Stadium.



But portions of Centene's $250 million office and retail project, which falls in the "future build-out" area of Ballpark Village, may beat the Cordish project — first announced more than two years ago.



Overall, Ballpark Village calls for converting eight acres of land in two phases to seven blocks of entertainment and retail venues, with offices on upper floors of buildings. Phase one of the Cordish development would have 360,000 square feet of retail, 100,000 square feet of offices, and a residential component, which was recently added back to the project after a boost in state incentives.



City leaders and the Cardinals, who own the Ballpark Village site, remain hopeful that most of the retail portion of Cordish's development can be complete by the All-Star Game.



Continue Reading.

Once again this city can't do anything right.

bonwich wrote:I can make a pretty good argument that the whole TWA thing was a massive disaster that St. Louis continues to pay for. The amount of subsidy there continued to sweetheart gate deals at the airport, not to mention the implementation of what turned into the current American domination of Lambert. (And certainly not to mention the $2 Billlion wasted on the new runway.)



I'd be interested in hearing a countering view as to how TWA ever made any net contribution to the local economy.



That, by the way, was the only strong negative on my list. All the rest have decent counterbalancing arguments.

Sorry to get in late on this, but ironically, just got off an AA flight from STL. As far contribution of TWA to the local economy, you can't write off the positive impact of nonstop service to many destinations around the country. Being a mid-sized city and having this level of service is absolutely a positive. Otherwise, we'd be left like KC with a few flights to hub cities along with Southwest service.

Does anyone else think Bill DeWitt is feeling just a liiiittle pressure lately? If anyone watched him give interviews about this on the news, he looked really tired and his answers were not given in a confident manner. They do not seem to be so in this PD article either.



My guess is that Cordish is really putting a strain on the man right now and there are lots of people (like some of the yahoos on this forum) that are putting immense pressure on those guys to perform. Just like athletes. Except he is just a skinny guy who is really smart.



He said in the article that the deadline was "self-imposed". Well it isnt any more. Its being imposed by an entire city which includes some powerful rich guys and some loud-mouthed papers and bloggers...

dweebe wrote:Once again this city can't do anything right.

Do a little work in development. You will have a new appreciation for delays.



I'm still not concerned. Not until after the bonds are sold and no work has started.

wheelscomp wrote:...and there are lots of people (like some of the yahoos on this forum) that are putting immense pressure on those guys to perform. Just like athletes. Except he is just a skinny guy who is really smart.

And just like athletes, that's the hazard of promising a lot and not delivering much. (The Cardinals, and now the Rams, are well versed in that practice this year.)



Anyway, please pardon the forthcoming football expression, but I think people have a right to be skeptical and/or disappointed when the goalposts seem to be moving constantly. Now we're looking at early winter for a groundbreaking?



I'm no expert, but I've followed development enough to know delays are an unfortunate and almost always inevitable part of the game. And like MattnSTL said, I won't get too concerned unless there's no action on the Ballpark Village site after the bonds have been sold.



I'm confident Cordish and the Cardinals will come through sooner or later. I might be a little disappointed if a portion of the development isn't ready in time for the All-Star Game in 2009. However, I'll just be happy to see them break ground as soon as possible. As long as people see tangible progress and a massive high-quality development rising just beyond the outfield walls, it's still an opportunity to show the rest of the nation St. Louis has arrived (even if it's slightly behind schedule).

"Once again, this city can't do anything right." Everyone hates the delays but seriously, come on.



(Edited to remove first sentence of verbal abuse.)