urbanSTL

dweebe wrote:

debaliviere wrote:

dweebe wrote:So threeonefour's post and my joke is "mass reaction"?

The twitterverse is up in arms about it.

Who on Twitter? All I saw was Alex's posts on @nextSTL.

Or are you joking? Because apparently that's not permitted here.

Nope. I've seen a lot of tweets about it. The RFT had this feature as well:

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyr ... photos.php

I'm really not understanding this collective Ballpark Village meltdown. It has been common knowledge for nearly a year that phase 1 would include a massive parking lot. I have also not heard DeWitt mention this would be the end all, be all for Ballpark Village. I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and realize this is much better than the mud hole that sat there for 6 years. Let's all remember that DeWitt also has his hands in the Stadium TOD planning and I'm pretty sure he is smart enough to realize that development is way more profitable than surface parking.

I just find it strange that everyone is looking at the negatives of this instead of the positives. In my opinion, this is an attractive phase 1 and I think it will be successful and drive future phases.

I was personally befuddled when Alderman Scott Olgivie went on a twitter rant about the parking situation, when I'm sure he has been completely informed about how BPV would develop for some time now.

roger wyoming II wrote:

goat314 wrote:I'm really not understanding this collective Ballpark Village meltdown.

I wouldn't exactly call it a meltdown and I don't think it is hard to understand at all.... the comments about disappointment in BPV have been constant since the scale-back and the current crop are simply in response to a specific moment in time -- the official announcement that the parking lots are now open for business and how that is such a great convenience for Cards fans-- so the counter-reaction should be expected. And what is clear is that no one in power held the Cards to any accountability in getting a mixed-use development done. Had the city been pushing, I firmly believe we could have had a tower or two under way by now.

To not say something just makes it that much more likely the Cardinals won't do anything beyond phase 1 and the parking. Having a meltdown/hissy fit/temper tantrum ensures the people in power know we're paying attention and won't accept whatever half-assed effort is initially put forward.

roger wyoming II wrote:

goat314 wrote:I'm really not understanding this collective Ballpark Village meltdown.

I wouldn't exactly call it a meltdown and I don't think it is hard to understand at all.... the comments about disappointment in BPV have been constant since the scale-back and the current crop are simply in response to a specific moment in time -- the official announcement that the parking lots are now open for business and how that is such a great convenience for Cards fans-- so the counter-reaction should be expected. And what is clear is that no one in power held the Cards to any accountability in getting a mixed-use development done. Had the city been pushing, I firmly believe we could have had a tower or two under way by now.

I completely agree with your sentiment regarding corporate accountability. I don't think many governments anywhere, especially in socioeconomically beleaguered regions like St. Louis, are confronting the corporate welfare state that exists.

At the same time, I would like to know where your empirical evidence is that there is sufficient demand for more development at ballpark village and how you know the city hasn't been pushing for more development?

Mr. Olgivie complained about the tax subsidies given to start BPV, but let's not forget that the city could have already had a "bigger and better" BPV ala KC Power and Light if the city would have went out on a limb and blindly backed even bigger subsidies and been on the hook like Kansas City with an under performing cheesy entertainment district that drains city services. I prefer Ballpark Village develops in a slower and hopefully more responsible manner.

Now I would love to see the Cardinals pre-lease residences and commercial space, but I have no idea what their plans for are for future phases. I would think people would be more up in arms about the lack of knowledge about future phases than the development of phase 1 parking.

dweebe wrote:

debaliviere wrote:Nope. I've seen a lot of tweets about it. The RFT had this feature as well:

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyr ... photos.php

Thanks: now I understand striebels statement was directed to stuff outside of this forum.

Yep. Was based on quite a cry out from Twitter, led mostly by Alderman Ogilvie (who I rarely disagree with).

And again, I understand why the parking spaces aren't being celebrated and why there's overall frustration with the project.

I just think if you're factoring everything into the equation, having the empty lots be parking spots for a year or two isn't really a big deal. If development never happens or it takes significantly longer than that, THEN it's a big deal.

Can we PUHleeeeeze rename this thread and the name of this development to "Carpark Village?" Abbreviated CPV.

Not Ballparking Village?

One other thing to add. This doesn't make having parking better, but I think it's about having more accurate reporting.

Some people are noting that we've added 400 spaces when lots already weren't full. Well that's not quite accurate.

Half of BPV was parking since 2009 until ground breaking on Phase 1. This is now more parking than that probably, but not 400 more spaces by any means.

It's largely a return to what was there for the last 4 years except that instead of a large softball field, there's an entertainment venue being constructed.

But by all means, let's rip the project instead of being pleased with the progress we are finally seeing and discussing what might be next.

dweebe wrote:

jstriebel wrote:Not Ballparking Village?

One other thing to add. This doesn't make having parking better, but I think it's about having more accurate reporting.

Some people are noting that we've added 400 spaces when lots already weren't full. Well that's not quite accurate.

Half of BPV was parking since 2009 until ground breaking on Phase 1. This is now more parking than that probably, but not 400 more spaces by any means.

It's largely a return to what was there for the last 4 years except that instead of a large softball field, there's an entertainment venue being constructed.

But by all means, let's rip the project instead of being pleased with the progress we are finally seeing and discussing what might be next.

Interesting post from someone who's been here 6 weeks and has 21 posts. Please tell us what else we should be doing.

I'm really not sure how my history of participation on these message boards pertains to what sorts of opinions I can have.

My statement wasn't directed at only those read this board but at the mindset that seems to be shared by many in the community who follow and concern themselves with development.

And while I may have used a literary device of telling you what you should be doing, I think it's pretty clear I'm merely expressing an opinion about what many are doing.

I'm free to have that opinion and your free to have yours. I appreciate the discussion. Thanks.

Serious question: when was the last time a surface parking lot in downtown was replaced by a building development? (And don't say the current BPV building.)

StL2003 wrote:Serious question: when was the last time a surface parking lot in downtown was replaced by a building development? (And don't say the current BPV building.)

Hmmm...

The Roberts Tower was built on a vacant lot, but it wasn't being used for parking.

There's the Social Security building at 16th and Delmar. Still not sure why they built that building instead of leasing space in an existing building, but that's another story.

Most of the new construction downtown has consisted of...parking garages.

roger wyoming II wrote:^ The Arch doesn't count either! What was before the new Federal Court House?

Good question. That was a little before I got seriously interested in downtown. I want to say there were some smaller buildings there, but I could be wrong.

Busch 3 was built on a parking lot.