Ballpark Village

gone corporate · PostFeb 19, 2013#4262013-02-19T23:52+00:00

My one question:
Will the PBR Bar at least sell Busch?

Focus: The Anchor Steam example given for San Fran is much easier for San Fran to do because they're not home to the world's largest brewery (no semantics, please: STL is BUD). The Cardinals still play in Busch Stadium, even if it's darn near impossible to find a vendor selling Busch in Busch. And yes, it's still great that STL is home to The Brewery. Still, there's love lost in the last few years, as well as a whole lot of smaller operations up and running these days...

What would sell is another venue nearby that features the local breweries. If one were to locate a site near Busch III and host exclusively local brewers (that may or may not include AB brews), it would draw a great crowd. Imagine being able to stop off before or after a game and order up a Perennial Ale, or Six Row, or Urban Chestnut, or even a Morgan Street Red.

The most comparable to the San Fran example would be a Schlafly bar near Busch III. I don't think they'd look to do something like this (especially as they're already in Downtown West), but it's the most feasible counter.

And the purely hypothetical, re: Kraftig... It's run by a Busch, William.
What if he opened a Kraftig bar next to Busch, but called it Busch's?
That'd be a field day for the lawyers...

wabash · PostFeb 20, 2013#4272013-02-20T00:11+00:00

^I'm pretty sure the Flying Saucer is planning on doing just what you're describing: Perennial Ale, Six Row, Schlafly, Urban Chestnut, etc... They're going to have 80 taps, and have been "Liking" local breweries on their Facebook page left and right.

Alex Ihnen · PostFeb 20, 2013#4282013-02-20T03:22+00:00

urbz wrote:BPV Phase II...Kraftig Brewery? Now that would be interesting.

Would be awesome, but the land cost is at a premium. No way they build a brewery there. And the Budweiser bar likely means that Kraftig wouldn't be welcome.

kbshapiro · PostFeb 22, 2013#4292013-02-22T13:54+00:00

As Beer City already said, I'm shocked that they haven't announced that Dewey's (owned by the Dewitt family) will be opening a location at Ballpark Village. They're 3 for 3 on developer(Cordish & StL Cardinals) owned tenants so far with PBR Bar (owned by Cordish), AB Brewhouse (owned by developer with a licensing agreement with AB), and the Cardinals Nations/Hall of Fame owned by the (StL Cardinals). Why not go 4 for 4?

Alex Ihnen · PostFeb 22, 2013#4302013-02-22T15:12+00:00

4 for 4? It's going to be 14 for 14 or however many places open. I believe the Cordish LIVE developments have exclusively been Cordish brands.

ealfotd · PostFeb 22, 2013#4312013-02-22T16:42+00:00

How would you find out something like that? Just based on my experience with KC Power & Light I don't think it's quite 100% (I know the company that operated the Irish Pub there filed for bankruptcy, but I guess they could have been a subsidiary). I don't think they own Gordon Biersch either, but I could be wrong.

edit: I also found a newspaper article where a Cordish official claimed the company has no affiliation with Maker's Mark Bourbon House & Lounge, which is in at least two of their developments.

wabash · PostFeb 22, 2013#4322013-02-22T17:42+00:00

Branson Landing, in many regards, is Branson's own Ballpark Village.

From the Branson Courier:
"Branson Landing is a $420 million public/private project, spanning 1.5 miles of waterfront on Lake Taneycomo, adjacent to historic downtown Branson. Upon completion, the destination showcases 450,000 square feet of retail shops and restaurants, including Bass Pro Shops and Belk department store, a luxury Hilton hotel, condominiums, boardwalk, marinas, entertainment and a new Branson Town Square. A 220,000 Branson Convention Center and Convention Center hotel, both operated by Hilton will open in 2007."

The development opened in May 2006 in the heady days of loose credit, free-spending homeowners, and expanding retailers. Similar to KC P&L, they're now having trouble covering the bonds and incentives they issued to get the project built. (See: Branson Landing and the Dilemmasof Economic Development "Branson’s aldermen have chosen to take $1.4 million from the city’s general fund and $1.2 million from the city’s transportation fund to make up shortfalls in TIF revenues")

With condos, hotels, two anchor tenants, a long list of local and national retailers, and a decently dense, urban design Branson Landing has many of the qualities posters on this forum have hoped for in BPV.

Retailers in the project include:
Aeropostale
Ann Taylor Loft
Bath & Bodyworks
Build-a-Bear Workshops
Cardinal's Clubhouse
Chico's
Denny's Harley Davidson
Disney Store
Finish Line
Haagan Dazs
Hollister
Jos. A. Bank
Lids
New Balance Branson
Pacific Sunwear
Sunglass Hut
Trade Secret
Victoria's Secret
White House / Black Market
Yankee Candle

I've never been to Branson Landing, but it looks like HCW (A Branson, Phoenix, & Wichita based developer) did a pretty good job with it.

Alex Ihnen · PostFeb 22, 2013#4332013-02-22T22:01+00:00

ealfotd wrote:How would you find out something like that? Just based on my experience with KC Power & Light I don't think it's quite 100% (I know the company that operated the Irish Pub there filed for bankruptcy, but I guess they could have been a subsidiary). I don't think they own Gordon Biersch either, but I could be wrong.

edit: I also found a newspaper article where a Cordish official claimed the company has no affiliation with Maker's Mark Bourbon House & Lounge, which is in at least two of their developments.

Good call. I shouldn't have said that. What I really meant was that they have the same biz in their developments - kind of like THF and Walmart - or something like that. I don't believe they work with small, local biz, but rather recruit from a small pool of national chains.

roger wyoming II · PostFeb 22, 2013#4342013-02-22T22:09+00:00

The saddest thing about KCP&L which I have never been to was the recent closing of the Candian-based restaurant which served poutine. I think it was the only U.S. location and now there is no reason to visit P&L. Would have loved to have that here.... it would have made us better men and women.

dmmonty1 · PostFeb 23, 2013#4352013-02-23T00:58+00:00

For what it's worth, Schlafly's Taproom has poutine...

roger wyoming II · PostFeb 23, 2013#4362013-02-23T02:15+00:00

^ thanks! Must be a newer menu item for them; I wonder if they still have the rarebit.

jakektu · PostFeb 26, 2013#4372013-02-26T20:50+00:00

From @Cardinals on Twitter

RuskiSTL · PostFeb 26, 2013#4382013-02-26T21:52+00:00

Such a waste. Could've made a perfect soccer hall of fame

dredger · PostFeb 27, 2013#4392013-02-27T01:14+00:00

RuskiSTL wrote:Such a waste. Could've made a perfect soccer hall of fame

I beg to differ, i think the building was tired and built for one thing. To be bowling hall of fame. Instead, bringing in a some sort of street grid back and urban infill will serve downtown better in the long run for this location. Unfortunately, Like bowling I think St. Louis has lost its soccer mojo as far as everybody outside of the region is concerned. It won't come back until money builds an MSL stadium next to union station.

In the meantime, I will take the Blues Museum coming to life downtown over trying to save the former bowling hall of fame for a half hearted attempt at a soccer hall of fame. I honestly think most people would wonder why you would have a soccer hall of fame next to the stadium of a great baseball legacy second only to the Yankees named after brewer knowned by the world and then proceed to walk on. No offense, but offering a frank opinion from someone who like sports all around, from playing the game to having a beer at a game.

arch city · PostFeb 27, 2013#4402013-02-27T15:17+00:00

The Wall Street Journal
February 26, 2013, 7:52 p.m. ET
Cardinals Build a Village

The WSJ link in the St. Louis Business Journal article is broken at this time, so I attached the correct link.

PostFeb 27, 2013#4412013-02-27T15:25+00:00

St. Louis needs the spark that the project may bring. The city's population has dropped more than 50% since 1950 to an estimated 318,000 in 2011, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

Sigh. Really? No single project will be St. Louis' savior or "spark".

Further, I get exhausted every time I hear or read a reference to the "50%" drop.

Overall, the article was positive, but I think St. Louis' Ballpark Village area will see a complete build-out sooner rather than later - especially with rental apartment demands up in downtown. I wouldn't be surprised if residential is announced for the area late 2013-early 2014.

STLEnginerd · PostFeb 27, 2013#4422013-02-27T15:45+00:00

Don't read the comment section then or your head will explode.

Alex Ihnen · PostFeb 27, 2013#4432013-02-27T16:17+00:00

^^ residential would work there now, but Cordish is the developer and doesn't make its money that way - I don't know the details of the agreement, but the Cardinals (and the city) would be best served parting with Cordish and seeking individual developers for each parcel.

arch city · PostFeb 27, 2013#4442013-02-27T18:46+00:00

^I agree. It's inevitable that residential will go there. Do you think the city is open to issuing bonds or tax credits for residential at the site as it has done for the Arcade building? The site and downtown are apartment-ready. Cordish should have learned its lesson in dealing with P&L.

Apr 6, 2012, 5:00am CDT
Cordish may receive chunk of Kansas City bond issue for residential project
Steve Vockrodt
Reporter-Kansas City Business Journal

Kansas City officials quietly are negotiating with The Cordish Co. about plans for a high-rise residential development in the Power & Light District.

On Feb. 23, the Kansas City Council passed a $63.5 million bond issuance that earmarks $10 million for what’s described in a line item as a “downtown residential project account.”

Bond documents show that some or all of this line item would finance a “contractual obligation” with Kansas City Live LLC — an entity affiliated with Cordish — for construction of residential units in the Power & Light District.

The contractual obligation refers to the 2004 master development agreement with Cordish to develop the Power & Light District. It included provisions for the city to support the development of as many as 350 residential units in the Power & Light Block 110, between Main and Walnut streets and 12th and 13th streets.

____________________________________________________________________

Sep 21, 2012, 5:00am CDT
COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE
Cordish Co.’s residential tower may trigger wave of new building
Brenna Hawley
Reporter-Kansas City Business Journal

Consider a new day in Kansas City urban living: Waking in a modern apartment, making breakfast in a kitchen complete with granite counter tops and high-end appliances. Floor-to-ceiling windows in the new building look out upon a balcony and, beyond that, a view of the Kansas City Power & Light District.

It’s a scene that could dawn in 2015. That’s when The Cordish Co. hopes to open a proposed $57 million residential high-rise at 13th and Walnut streets.

Presbyterian · PostFeb 27, 2013#4452013-02-27T22:24+00:00

It appears that Cordish and the Cards are now saying that they aren't planning to restore the street grid at Ballpark Village, after all. Instead, they are proposing to use public TIF funds to build a large private parking lot on one huge mega-block there — including where restored streets and sidewalks were going to be. No streets. No sidewalks. No streetlights. None of it. Just a continuous asphalt parking surface.

Does anyone know what city officials would be responsible to hold Cordish and the Cards to their promise to restore the full street grid? I think this is one worth fighting for. The restored street grid was the one redeeming quality left to this development.

Revised proposal:

Gateway City · PostFeb 27, 2013#4462013-02-27T22:29+00:00

Maybe they will build the street grid in future phases. I wonder why they tore out the little baseball field on the western portion of the lot. It looks like it could still fit in there had they not decided to cover it with a parking lot.

JPCosgrove · PostFeb 27, 2013#4472013-02-27T22:41+00:00

Let's call this project what it really is: Car Park Village

arch city · PostFeb 27, 2013#4482013-02-27T22:53+00:00

Presbyterian wrote:It appears that Cordish and the Cards are now saying that they aren't planning to restore the street grid at Ballpark Village, after all. Instead, they are proposing to use public TIF funds to build a large private parking lot on one huge mega-block there — including where restored streets and sidewalks were going to be. No streets. No sidewalks. No streetlights. None of it. Just a continuous asphalt parking surface.

Does anyone know what city officials would be responsible to hold Cordish and the Cards to their promise to restore the full street grid? I think this is one worth fighting for. The restored street grid was the one redeeming quality left to this development.

Revised proposal:

How recent is your diagram because this is the recent Phase I plan the Cardinals released. And other than the diagram, what's your source?

PostFeb 27, 2013#4492013-02-27T22:57+00:00

Either way, the city should resist parking garages and parking lots downtown. There's enough already. If a garage isn't attached to an office or residential project the city should resist any more garages or parking lots.

There's an abundance.

Presbyterian · PostFeb 27, 2013#4502013-02-27T23:10+00:00

^^Building permit applied for by "BALLPARK VILLAGE HOLDINGS BLOCK" on 02/12/2013 and approved on 02/13/2013 to "CONSTRUCT PARKING LOT PER PLANS" for $890,357.00. I believe this is the final approved site plan which was slipped under the radar two weeks ago. You are correct that this is quite different than the plan shown at the public presentation last month.

Ballpark Village

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