urbanSTL

It's an easy spot for Salt and Smoke to prosper.  Tourists will hop in there almost immediately and it will be flooded on game days.  On the other hand, it's disappointing that it might impact Midwestern, which I think is much more deserving of the business.  I have had great meals at Salt and Smoke, of course, but I think Midwestern is better.

And in my opinion, I'd love for development to mix up north of this.  Does anyone have weigh in on how this impacts the entirety of Downtown outside of a little cluster of buildings? Would love for this to spur some new high rise infill around Wash Ave/Locust, etc.. but if these heavily subsidized towers are going to take up all of the demand Downtown, I'm not sure how enthusiastic I am.  At least this restaurant development is locally owned and not a corporate waste of retail space.

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Dec 04, 2019

chriss752 wrote: ↑

Dec 04, 2019

300 is still under contract. I don’t see it being a threat to future BPV apartment buildings.

I agree.  300 failed the first time around because the original developer didn't get the financing together in time...not because of demand.  Demand is obviously there if One Cardinal Way is going to open 100% leased.

Isn't the failure to "get the financing together in time" a function of demand?

I hope Salt and Smoke doesn't "Supersmokers" themselves. BPV makes a lot of sense but the CWE location is a bit of a question mark, especially after this announcement. So close to the Delmar location.

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Dec 04, 2019

debaliviere wrote: ↑

Dec 04, 2019

Salt + Smoke opening at One Cardinal Way!

Nice!  That should do really well there.  A little more detail from the PD:

The new location will occupy two stories. The first level will feature inside seating for about 120; there will also be patio seating. The second level will be a rooftop deck with seating for between 150 and 200 depending on how the space is being used.  Schmidt anticipates the restaurant will open along with One Cardinal Way in June.

https://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/ ... the-latest

Based on that description, it seems like a pretty safe bet it's going to be located in that prime spot right in the southeast corner of the building at Clark & Broadway (facing Clark)...

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Dec 05, 2019

From what I remember reporting said they missed a deadline to close but still wanted to pursue the project.  Maybe it was because they didn’t think they could rent any apartments...makes one wonder why they’d attempt it if they didn’t think there was any demand in the first place, but who knows.

We don't know who has 300 S. Broadway under contract, but we do know that the Chicago investment firm partners of HDA in the initial proposal walked away after, I think, at least a year. 

In any case, my point was that demand is a curve, not a single point.  They don't know the demand for their residential project until they know the price per square foot they are going to have to charge to get the return they need.  The cost of construction per leasable sq. ft. for 300 S. Broadway, as proposed, would be significantly higher than One Cardinal Way.  And they won't get financing until they can convince a lender those numbers work.

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Dec 05, 2019

I hope Salt and Smoke doesn't "Supersmokers" themselves. BPV makes a lot of sense but the CWE location is a bit of a question mark, especially after this announcement. So close to the Delmar location.

Similar to other popular StL born chains (PI and Mission)

John Coctostan wrote: ↑

Dec 04, 2019

kipfilet wrote: ↑

Dec 04, 2019

debaliviere wrote: ↑

Dec 04, 2019

Salt + Smoke opening at One Cardinal Way!

So they have new locations downtown, in the CWE, and in St. Charles. That's a really aggressive expansion, I hope it doesn't backfire on them. Rapid expansion seems to have a lot of victims in the STL restaurant industry.

NM

uh?

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Dec 05, 2019

^ I think he means never mind.  Like he wrote something and then decided to delete it.  Once another comment is added individual posts can't be deleted so he just had edit it instead.

Thanks for clarifying.

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Dec 05, 2019

urbanitas wrote: ↑

Dec 05, 2019

In any case, my point was that demand is a curve, not a single point.  They don't know the demand for their residential project until they know the price per square foot they are going to have to charge to get the return they need.  The cost of construction per leasable sq. ft. for 300 S. Broadway, as proposed, would be significantly higher than One Cardinal Way.  And they won't get financing until they can convince a lender those numbers work.

Sure.

Yep.

Makes for a really clean look when the balconies don’t have railings. They should keep it that way.

^^^The Cardinal Way seems to be missing something...

It looks a little suburbanish however I think this could look nice on the vacant lot in front of point 400


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Agreed. Pretty basic. But still wouldn’t mind it replacing one of the Kiener garages.


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wabash wrote: ↑

Dec 06, 2019

Agreed. Pretty basic. But still wouldn’t mind it replacing one of the Kiener garages.

Yes, please!

I’d give anything to replace many of these atrocious garages downtown. The Keiner garages are simply a waste of good opportunity to take our downtown to a whole new level. I remember one of the interviews by Dewitt was he hope he could get phase 3 started immediately after phase 2 was finished depending on demand and obviously I would think demand is there.


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This is utterly completely speculative on my part but I would assume that somehow, someway Cordish has tried to get into someone's ear at JP Morgan & pitched office space outside of New York,  maybe fly over country in Missouri whether it be KC and or BPV III.   In some respects I assume it would probably easier to talk numbers with Cordish for new space then trying to buy a building in default. 

Hopefully we could see something like the old renderings the business journal wrote about for the JP Morgan office if that happens.

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... llage.html

urbanitas wrote: ↑

Dec 05, 2019

^^^The Cardinal Way seems to be missing something...

Yeah that most definitely was a faux "topping off" ceremony. The webcam today shows columns for another floor (or roof) being poured. There are no indications to the contrary so there's no reason to worry about it, but this building really needs the hair on top aesthetically.