urbanSTL

I also thought those renderings made that office tower look significantly bigger, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

urbanitas wrote:

sc4mayor wrote:

urbanitas wrote: LOL.  It's an 85000 sf office building, with 5000 sf of retail, and 3 parking levels...

It is also at least $12 million cheaper than the Pennant building, and yet the design is 100x superior aesthetically.

My apologizes, no need to be rude about it..... 
It looks significantly larger than the Pennant Building.

No, no, it is entirely my fault.  I should have anticipated your assumptions and reflexive need for a defensive response, and provided a link for you with all of the relevant project information... 

Edit: Nothing rude nor condescending in any of the above. SC4Mayor, you made a random uniformed comment dismissing the ability of St. Louis to fill a smaller office building than has already been leased in its spot. That's not rude, that's correcting your lazy mistake.

Edit 2: That said, I do rather like the rendering you posted and that would be an excellent addition to downtown. Nice find.

^Agreed on the office space issues. Definitely are, but with PWC leasing ~60K sq ft that would be more than enough alone to construct the other building you posted as well.

I don't think there's disagreement on the challenges and headwinds, the main thing that gets me (and quite a few others that have been here for a long time) is dismissal of St. Louis as "worthy" or "able" for developments that aren't even second guessed in many cities tiers below ours. I've had a longstanding belief that this type of thinking is a large part of what's been holding our region back from more explosive growth seen in some other peer to slightly larger cities. So I have a natural pre-disposition to react poorly to such things.

Carry on.

^(High Five Emoji)

The parking podium should be under the future (taller) building just north of the current Pennant Building.   The Pennant Building should have no podium whatsoever.  I believe this was a fundamental design error in the complex.  The first six floors of a new building just north of the Pennant will have no south facing view now (unless they build another podium under the new building).  

STLinCHI wrote:The first six floors of a new building just north of the Pennant will have no south facing view now (unless they build another podium under the new building).  

Definitely will be another garage unless they work out a deal with the Busch West garage. 

^What would a deal with the Busch West garage have to do with below grade parking for a future tower on this site?

(I would imagine the cost of below grade is 100% driving this decision and would imagine all future phases will have parking podiums as well, unfortunately)

newstl2020 wrote:^What would a deal with the Busch West garage have to do with below grade parking for a future tower on this site?

(I would imagine the cost of below grade is 100% driving this decision and would imagine all future phases will have parking podiums as well, unfortunately)

Below grade is a possibility, but if they can add several floors of parking to have a better view for a higher rent, they'll do that. And, digging down is expensive. When Phase 2 was originally unveiled, the office and hotel would've had underground parking, but the cost was determined to be too much, so they brought the parking up and built accordingly. 

^Yes, as with all things DeWitt it seems to come down to how little they can spend 

newstl2020 wrote:^Yes, as with all things DeWitt it seems to come down to how little they can spend 

True, but I would hope future phases use higher quality materials. This Phase is fine with materials, but the future phases need to stand out a bit. Parking screens shouldn't be so prevalent especially since they'll be covering the other buildings. Who knows, and this is a big maybe, maybe they'll big a gigantic garage on one of the parcels and build non-garage buildings on the other two parcels. I wouldn't like that unless the garage could be built upon at a later time. 

Oof. I really hope not. A standalone garage on one of the remaining parcels would be an unmitigated disaster. Luckily there's no signs they have any intention of doing so, especially considering they could have very easily and very cheaply done this immediately after completing the bar-mahal.

Expect Cordish / Cardinals to utilize in future phases, whatever formula generated the best return in the first two phases.  Don't forget that this entire project is about capturing as much indirect ballpark-generated spending as possible.  In their ideal world, every single visitor to Busch (Enterprise too for that matter) would drink at their bars, eat at their restaurants, stay in their hotel rooms, park in their garages, and even live in their apartments... 

Below-grade parking costs at least 2.5x more per space.  The city didn't demand it, so why would they spend more than they need to for the same amount of revenue?  And, of all the potential uses, demand for ballpark-adjacent parking seems to be the least satiable.    So, don't be surprised when whatever is eventually built on that NW corner lot gets a parking podium nearly as tall as the Pennant building.  

Is it me, or has ballpark parking skyrocketed in value the past couple of years? Drove past a $40 lot yesterday, still almost full.

As development (hopefully) ramps up around that area in the coming years, it wouldn't surprise me if we start seeing more and more fans willing to pay $40 or more for the convenience of a surface lot. 

It's why I keep saying that I'm rooting for parking podiums on all of the remaining Ballpark Village parcels. I'd like to see the ballpark garages and surface lots squeezed by competition from the Cardinals/Cordish.

A few pics I taken today while on one of the short riverboat cruise.


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The PwC Pennant Building is coming along. Looks like bricks in palettes for the street or sidewalk.

sc4mayor wrote:^ Thanks for the pics Chris!  Do you know what those metal things are for that are sticking out of the Pennant garage?

Those will have banners on them listing World Series victory years.