Thats great for Atlanta! We all know that things here move slower than molasses! we're not even on glacial pace. In all hopefully when our village is done in 2090 we'll show the world we can actually complete a full project 
Turner Field opened in 1997. That means they're proposing to move into a new stadium 20 years after they got their last stadium.
Given how long it's taken them to build Busch III and BPV, the Cardinals better start planning their replacement stadium now. It should be ready to go just about the time the current BPV is completely built out.
(kidding aside, the Braves merely lease Turner Field from the city - it was previously Centenial Stadium built for the Olympics - and their lease is up after the 2016 season. The team has opted to build their own stadium rather than renew that lease.)
-RBB
Given how long it's taken them to build Busch III and BPV, the Cardinals better start planning their replacement stadium now. It should be ready to go just about the time the current BPV is completely built out.
(kidding aside, the Braves merely lease Turner Field from the city - it was previously Centenial Stadium built for the Olympics - and their lease is up after the 2016 season. The team has opted to build their own stadium rather than renew that lease.)
-RBB
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Meet Me in Subsidized St Louis. New Entertsinment Complex comes to a Dying City.
I like how Wash Ave and Soulard are success stories.
http://mobile.spectator.org/theamerican ... 186c0bd03d
I like how Wash Ave and Soulard are success stories.
http://mobile.spectator.org/theamerican ... 186c0bd03d
I really wonder if the author has ever set foot in St. Louis?downtown2007 wrote:Meet Me in Subsidized St Louis. New Entertsinment Complex comes to a Dying City.
I like how Wash Ave and Soulard are success stories.
http://mobile.spectator.org/theamerican ... 186c0bd03d
^ Yes, he makes some points but he lost me when he said St. Louis has not taken part in the recent urban renaissance. We've led the nation in historic preservation and have a number of vibrant districts throughout the city and inner ring suburbs.
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I love it Alex Ihnen is cited as the smart one in this extremely conservative magazine. I think he secretly got an MPA from Liberty University.
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rbb wrote:Turner Field opened in 1997. That means they're proposing to move into a new stadium 20 years after they got their last stadium.
Given how long it's taken them to build Busch III and BPV, the Cardinals better start planning their replacement stadium now. It should be ready to go just about the time the current BPV is completely built out.
(kidding aside, the Braves merely lease Turner Field from the city - it was previously Centenial Stadium built for the Olympics - and their lease is up after the 2016 season. The team has opted to build their own stadium rather than renew that lease.)
-RBB
As a sports fan in my opinion its getting ridiculous, 20 years is not even letting the paint dry considering that Fenway Park is 102 years old. They are removing their own history by also demolishing Turner Field if plans go through. Many Olympic Cities still have their stadiums from their games; hell STL still has its from 1906.
I just feel this entire concept of sports taking city/county governments for cash rides is a waste of money, especially what the Braves are doing in Cobb County.
On another note, how is Ballpark Village doing? I have seen some photos it does not seem as popular as it was hyped to be but those are photos. How large are the crowds at BPV?
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When I went there, I had to wait for my table. It was packed. We'll see if it's still like that when winter rolls around.
BPV needs to build off of its current momentum or I could see this place getting rather stale in a few years. If patrons are constantly seeing new construction, especially residential, I think it will continue to spark interests.
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I would eat there all the time if I lived DT (waiting on you, Arcade) because the Brewhouse has some REALLY good hamburgers. I hope this Geoff residential item is in BPV.
I'm starting to think it may be BPV, either that or the Landing Tower.
From March 2014: http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/morn ... llage.html
Cordish speaking in earnest about BPV tower.
From March 2014: http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/morn ... llage.html
Cordish speaking in earnest about BPV tower.
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I friggin' hope it's the effin' BPV tower! A nice looking 25 story building filling in the gap in our skyline by the Millennium would be fantastic. Hopefully it would have a mix of entertainment and retail that are too legit to sh-t. Maybe a pharmacy. Actually, weren't they supposed to open a CVS in the Park Pacific awhile ago? What ever happened to that? Maybe we'll get one in the Arcade!
Before we see a dozen cranes up DT, though, we need to fill up almost all of our vacant buildings...I'm looking at you, Jefferson Arms.
Before we see a dozen cranes up DT, though, we need to fill up almost all of our vacant buildings...I'm looking at you, Jefferson Arms.
Every time I have been to BPV all tables on first floor with standing room only has been in effect. I have never been on a home game day only on away game days or off days. I would assume that BPV is doing very well.
Well there was that pesky economic meltdown in 2008. The economy is a bit better now.BrickCity4470 wrote:Thats great for Atlanta! We all know that things here move slower than molasses! we're not even on glacial pace. In all hopefully when our village is done in 2090 we'll show the world we can actually complete a full project
“If there’s a premise” to the village, says Alex Ihnen, editor of the popular local urban affairs blog NextSTL, “it’s that this entertainment complex is going to bring brand new people to the city.” This same silver bullet approach has been tried many times in St. Louis, dating back to the Gateway Arch in the 1960s, and has continued with publicly financed stadiums, malls, and marketplaces.
“Every time one of these big projects has been proposed,” he said, “everyone’s been told ‘this is the key to the city’s future.’” But many, like the Edward Jones Dome, have saddled the city with debt, and none has reversed its structural decline.
I think Alex has it right. The arch grounds is the newest silver bullet. There are no silver bullets. Until this region wakes up and starts consistently making small strategic investments (public and private) that promote the economic growth of the entire region, as opposed to localized parts of the region, we will continue to stagnate....which means we will continue to decline relative to other urban regions in the USA that do get the fact that the fates of each/all of there parts is/are really dependent on the fate of the whole. Hope the folks that run this place wake up. It's a great place. I really like it. Hate to see it continue on its downward spiral.
“Every time one of these big projects has been proposed,” he said, “everyone’s been told ‘this is the key to the city’s future.’” But many, like the Edward Jones Dome, have saddled the city with debt, and none has reversed its structural decline.
I think Alex has it right. The arch grounds is the newest silver bullet. There are no silver bullets. Until this region wakes up and starts consistently making small strategic investments (public and private) that promote the economic growth of the entire region, as opposed to localized parts of the region, we will continue to stagnate....which means we will continue to decline relative to other urban regions in the USA that do get the fact that the fates of each/all of there parts is/are really dependent on the fate of the whole. Hope the folks that run this place wake up. It's a great place. I really like it. Hate to see it continue on its downward spiral.
I'm just as much in favor of better local decisions and leadership, but can someone succinctly explain our downward spiral? This article acts like BPV was dropped in the middle of Fairgrounds Park and we all expect millions to flock to it and spur economy.
Please also give me some examples of some cities that are without these problems or are "doing it right" comparatively.
I'll also go back to questions I raised on the urban theory blog a while ago. If these silver bullet theories are so obviously flawed and smart guys like Alex can rake these ideas over the coals, then what are the arguments for such decisions and who are making them? Are people like Alex and other urban minded analysts in the position to bend the ear of our regional brass before the "downward spiral" decisions get made.
Please also give me some examples of some cities that are without these problems or are "doing it right" comparatively.
I'll also go back to questions I raised on the urban theory blog a while ago. If these silver bullet theories are so obviously flawed and smart guys like Alex can rake these ideas over the coals, then what are the arguments for such decisions and who are making them? Are people like Alex and other urban minded analysts in the position to bend the ear of our regional brass before the "downward spiral" decisions get made.
BPV is not some silver bullet that the Regional Chamber, Downtown Partnership, and the City are claiming to be a silver bullet. They support this because Dewitt and the Cardinals want to build it. I am sure if you asked these organizations if they thought BPV was exactly what they wanted to do with this money or this property I am pretty sure it is not. Money talks and thus BPV is built. BPV will probably make the Cardinals a lot of money too.
What downward spiral? Is downtown suddenly spiraling after a decade and half of rebirth? And since when is BPV supposed to be a silver bullet?
From San Diego, to D.C., and now to Atlanta, these types of projects outside ballparks are getting built. You could say that St. Louis is not San Diego or D.C., but those two cities also don't have a fan base that will pack their park with 40,000+ people 81+ days out of the year guaranteed. It is for those days that Phase I was designed the way it is and it is perfect for that. Of course it benefits everyone to have it hopping other days out of the year, and it's already proven that it's an ideal place for other events (Blues games, etc.)
Phase I is not what anyone on this board originally wanted. We were expecting what the Cardinals originally said they were going to build, and I certainly can't blame anyone for that. But, things change. The Cardinals still have the opportunity to turn this into a lively, mixed-use, urban center. I'm sure a lot of us don't trust them with it right now, but I also think that too much on this board we mourn about what was lost or our missed opportunities instead of looking forward proactively. It'll benefit the Cardinals to see the principles original vision come to fruition, even if it looks different in construction. What previous "silver bullets" like St. Louis Center and Union Station didn't have was the most iconic name in the region and throughout the Midwest backing them up. To compare BPV to them, I think, is misguided. And I'm certainly not going to let some poorly-written, biased article influence my opinions.
From San Diego, to D.C., and now to Atlanta, these types of projects outside ballparks are getting built. You could say that St. Louis is not San Diego or D.C., but those two cities also don't have a fan base that will pack their park with 40,000+ people 81+ days out of the year guaranteed. It is for those days that Phase I was designed the way it is and it is perfect for that. Of course it benefits everyone to have it hopping other days out of the year, and it's already proven that it's an ideal place for other events (Blues games, etc.)
Phase I is not what anyone on this board originally wanted. We were expecting what the Cardinals originally said they were going to build, and I certainly can't blame anyone for that. But, things change. The Cardinals still have the opportunity to turn this into a lively, mixed-use, urban center. I'm sure a lot of us don't trust them with it right now, but I also think that too much on this board we mourn about what was lost or our missed opportunities instead of looking forward proactively. It'll benefit the Cardinals to see the principles original vision come to fruition, even if it looks different in construction. What previous "silver bullets" like St. Louis Center and Union Station didn't have was the most iconic name in the region and throughout the Midwest backing them up. To compare BPV to them, I think, is misguided. And I'm certainly not going to let some poorly-written, biased article influence my opinions.
Agree. If now some people are going to use BPV as yet another tool to bash STL and "struggling cities" then I want a more clear understanding of the spiral problem and examples of other metros doing something similar in the "proper" way.
I'd have to disagree with Alex. If there's a premise to the village it's that the owners of the Cardinals own it and it's a chance to make them more money. The "people will come" (I feel you Terence Mann) aspect is already in place because of Busch Stadium. I can't really comment on it's comparison to the Arch as I am not very familiar with the political details of its inception, though it seems different to me. I could see comparing the Arch to the construction of Busch II, or to the residential component of BPV, but not to this opening phase.
I'd have to disagree with Alex. If there's a premise to the village it's that the owners of the Cardinals own it and it's a chance to make them more money. The "people will come" (I feel you Terence Mann) aspect is already in place because of Busch Stadium. I can't really comment on it's comparison to the Arch as I am not very familiar with the political details of its inception, though it seems different to me. I could see comparing the Arch to the construction of Busch II, or to the residential component of BPV, but not to this opening phase.
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While I'm not too crazy about the subsidies for BPV, fortunately they don't put taxpayers at risk like in KC. But it also is rather laughable to call Phase One a "game changer" or "silver bullet" for downtown. Only when it is filled with workers and residents and unique retail can it be said to be that. Truth is, BPV is just one of many positives that are starting to change perceptions of downtown and city at large, but the only game changer downtown will come when companies start investing in some serious job growth.
From all the reviews it sounds like Alex was right, it is bringing new people downtown. Or at least causing them to spend more time and money downtown.
Perhaps BPV - the grand vision of a multi-use district filled with towers and activity - could be considered a silver bullet. But I don't think anyone thinks the current iteration is. I think the silver bullet days may be over. Any project is just going to contribute to what's already happening. In the last decade DT has added a casino, four star hotel, major theater venue, movie theater, law school, new baseball stadium, and billions of dollars of other development. Considering all of the progress, BPV in its current form doesn't move the needle enough to be a "silver bullet."
Perhaps BPV - the grand vision of a multi-use district filled with towers and activity - could be considered a silver bullet. But I don't think anyone thinks the current iteration is. I think the silver bullet days may be over. Any project is just going to contribute to what's already happening. In the last decade DT has added a casino, four star hotel, major theater venue, movie theater, law school, new baseball stadium, and billions of dollars of other development. Considering all of the progress, BPV in its current form doesn't move the needle enough to be a "silver bullet."
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I think landing Centene would have been the game-changer for BPV. Centene is flying high now, too:
http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... a041e.html
http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... a041e.html
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Wonder were will we see first a new residential building going up in BPV or the landing.
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^I wish we would see the old Sky house location personally. Even though thats probably never going to happen. I would never want to live at BPV or the landing. But if a nice new MODERN building was built on Washington. . .count me in. However im gussing BPV cause that will probably sell/rent well
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I would fell the same about BPV I wound not want to live there but the landing I would live there for the views of downtown and the arch. I wound not say the skyhouse would never happen I think something will happen when the streetcar is built.bigmclargehuge wrote:^I wish we would see the old Sky house location personally. Even though thats probably never going to happen. I would never want to live at BPV or the landing. But if a nice new MODERN building was built on Washington. . .count me in. However im gussing BPV cause that will probably sell/rent well