Ballpark Village

roger wyoming II · PostMar 06, 2014#11262014-03-06T20:36+00:00

rbb wrote:Ballpark FoodCourt:

Budweiser Brew House (#BudBrewHouse)
PBR St. Louis - A Cowboy Bar (#PBRSTL)
The Barn at PBR (#STLBarn)
Howl at the Moon (#HowlatSTLBPV)
Drunken Fish (#DrunkenFishatSTLBPV)
Tengo Sed & Tengo Hambre (#TengoSTLBPV)
Ted Drewes (#EatTedDrewesatBPV)

-RBB

Cardinals Nation will have a two-story level restaurant/bar as well.

Honestly, I think this is going to be pretty successful and a nice addition to downtown. I can see the Budweiser and Cardinals restaurant/bars doing very well.... the nice thing as well about these two is that they are authentic to the town and one-of-a-kinds. The Hall of Fame and Museum should also be a nice attraction and an additional family attraction. All in all, it will serve the function of attracting and keeping people downtown longer and shaking more money out of their pockets rather well. There may be some impact on other bars/restaurants, but as a whole I suspect it will also bring more people outside of the friendly confines as well.

Gateway City · PostMar 06, 2014#11272014-03-06T21:03+00:00

The other phases MUST have serious retail for this to truly be a village.

DannyJ · PostMar 06, 2014#11282014-03-06T21:19+00:00

^Why? Bricks and mortar retail is declining overall in the U.S. and there isn't much of a market for retail downtown. Even if Ballpark Village was able to directly add 3000 residents and workers downtown- which is a best case scenario- that wouldn't really move the needle in establishing a market to support much retail there. Even the baseball crowds won't do much for retail since game attendants likely wouldn't be buying much before or after a night game. That leaves maybe 20-25 dates a year to support retail. I don't really see it. Sure, a few retailers and services will locate there, but it won't be a lot.

If you want more retail downtown, the place to look will be around the OPO and Culinaria in a couple years.

siu850956106 · PostMar 07, 2014#11292014-03-07T00:19+00:00

Eastward wrote:^ There are a lot of huge Cardinals fans in outlying areas of Missouri and Illinois, to whom these tenants will really appeal. Every town needs something like this to please the tourists. San Francisco has Fisherman's Wharf for example. I think this will be a big draw to rural residents coming in for games

Being from Carbondale I completely agree. A huge number of the 5 million or so people that go to Busch Stadium and the arch every year are bumpkins from boonies. And as much as I like the hip places to dine in downtown it really isn't the speed that that demographic is looking for. I'm always in favor of the city doing things to appeal to a wide range of people. St. Louis is not a cow town, but its close to thousands of cow towns. Why shouldn't St. Louis make itself more inviting for those people?

Eastward · PostMar 07, 2014#11302014-03-07T00:56+00:00

^ That's right. There are tons of loyal Cardinals fans in Southeast Missouri as well, who faithfully follow their Cards and travel to St. Louis several times a year to see a game. If they have places that interest them and where they can feel comfortable grabbing dinner and/or some drinks, they will spend the money there. It wouldn't hurt to see a Hampton or Drury Inns or something along those lines perhaps just south of 40 as well.

STLEnginerd · PostMar 07, 2014#11312014-03-07T01:04+00:00

Being from Carbondale I completely agree. A huge number of the 5 million or so people that go to Busch Stadium and the arch every year are bumpkins from boonies. And as much as I like the hip places to dine in downtown it really isn't the speed that that demographic is looking for. I'm always in favor of the city doing things to appeal to a wide range of people. St. Louis is not a cow town, but its close to thousands of cow towns. Why shouldn't St. Louis make itself more inviting for those people?

You could start by being a little more inviting yourself. As hard as it is to believe most of them can read.

Eastward · PostMar 07, 2014#11322014-03-07T01:07+00:00

^ ha! I'm from the area originally myself. The vast majority of people from the country would be totally uninterested in a hip bistro or wine bar. A friendly joint with good, hearty portions and cold beer and a clean place to sleep are much more appealing to the demographic.

STLEnginerd · PostMar 07, 2014#11332014-03-07T01:32+00:00

^True, they also aren't likely to read a blog like this but i felt siu went overboard with the characterization, especially when the comments pertained to being an inviting inclusive city for all. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive because I still have family that way but I'm also a little sensitive to comments that divide the readers here based on aesthetic preferences. Its an unabashedly urban forum but that doesn't extend to whether people prefer cowboy boots to sneakers.

innov8ion · PostMar 07, 2014#11342014-03-07T02:31+00:00

Originally I was a bit skeptical with the original offerings but it seems like they've hit most the bases in a commendable fashion. They've got a mix of local and national restaurants and bars. Ted Drewes is certain to be a big hit.

The one exception appears to be Tango Sed Cantina. While a Mexican cantina sounds great, It only earns 2 stars out of 5 from 40 reviewers on Yelp. Mission Taco would be a huge upgrade here IMHO.

goat314 · PostMar 07, 2014#11352014-03-07T02:49+00:00

siu850956106 wrote:
Eastward wrote:^ There are a lot of huge Cardinals fans in outlying areas of Missouri and Illinois, to whom these tenants will really appeal. Every town needs something like this to please the tourists. San Francisco has Fisherman's Wharf for example. I think this will be a big draw to rural residents coming in for games

Being from Carbondale I completely agree. A huge number of the 5 million or so people that go to Busch Stadium and the arch every year are bumpkins from boonies. And as much as I like the hip places to dine in downtown it really isn't the speed that that demographic is looking for. I'm always in favor of the city doing things to appeal to a wide range of people. St. Louis is not a cow town, but its close to thousands of cow towns. Why shouldn't St. Louis make itself more inviting for those people?

I agree, people would be surprised at how many rural kids in our hinterland choose places like Nashville, Kansas City, Columbus, and Indianapolis as their big city option, because they perceive St. Louis as too abrasive, dangerous, or fast. I would say if St. Louis did more to attract people from outstate Missouri, downstate Illinois, Northern Arkansas, Western Tennessee, Western Kentucky, Southern Iowa, Southern Indiana etc. we may not be growing like Atlanta or Houston, but we would possibly growing like Minneapolis or Denver.

roger wyoming II · PostMar 07, 2014#11362014-03-07T14:08+00:00

^ Interesting... not sure though how one goes about attracting young people from the hinterlands in a way that is particularly appealing to them while not so much to those hailing from larger cities.... could you flesh that out some more?

BrickCity4470 · PostMar 07, 2014#11372014-03-07T18:48+00:00

As a almost long time St.Louis resident i will say St.Louis is dangerous with the recent shooting of the 20 yr old and the megan bogen case if im correct with her name and seemingly several other shootings from people that were out of town and died here St.Louis isn't just perceived it's known St.Louis can be and is dangerous. I love it here but if we're going to move forward and progressive forward crime and education are #1 in the city. If we want to attract people of all genres the crimes have got to decrease significantly particularly homicides 100 or so homicides are just killing this City every year.... Sorry being off topic
I truly hope BPV is very successful but i absolutely think they should change the naming of the district to make it more appealing and attractive not only to St.Louisans but out of towners... We'll see how this first phase goes it will truly be a test when the off season of 2014 begins..

gary kreie · PostMar 07, 2014#11382014-03-07T19:05+00:00

BrickCity4470 wrote:As a almost long time St.Louis resident i will say St.Louis is dangerous with the recent shooting of the 20 yr old and the megan bogen case if im correct with her name and seemingly several other shootings from people that were out of town and died here St.Louis isn't just perceived it's known St.Louis can be and is dangerous. I love it here but if we're going to move forward and progressive forward crime and education are #1 in the city. If we want to attract people of all genres the crimes have got to decrease significantly particularly homicides 100 or so homicides are just killing this City every year.... Sorry being off topic
I truly hope BPV is very successful but i absolutely think they should change the naming of the district to make it more appealing and attractive not only to St.Louisans but out of towners... We'll see how this first phase goes it will truly be a test when the off season of 2014 begins..

For baseball games at Boston's Fenway Park, they close off Yawkey Way, right along the ballpark, and make that street pedestrian only and inside the stadium game perimeter. Then game ticket holders come through security and go out on the street and buy beer etc. from vendors that line the street. That makes it safe, since everyone entering the ballpark will be wanded this year.

Would BallPark Village consider putting Clark Street and Ballpark Village INSIDE stadium security on home baseball game nights? That would definitely improve security during ballgames.

moorlander · PostMar 07, 2014#11392014-03-07T19:39+00:00

Wouldn't that just cause others to perceive downtown as unsafe? Why else would u need a security barricade?

For the most part the areas around the ballpark are VERY safe even at night during home games. There are thousands of people walking the streets and that's a lot of eyes on the streets.

The types of people who are fearful around the Busch 3 are the same kinda of people who are too fearful to shop at the Galleria Mall. They'd be afraid of their own shadow if the news told them it was dangerous.

erina · PostMar 07, 2014#11402014-03-07T19:48+00:00

Being originally from Useless Cowtown, IL I can say that BPV will need at least one restaurant that's safe and mass market. Seriously, people from there thought that the Houlihans in Union Station was fancy eatin'.

Eastward · PostMar 07, 2014#11412014-03-07T20:55+00:00

^ Has security or crime been seen as an issue near the stadium on game days? I've not heard of any problems and wouldn't think, with so many people around that it would be an issue.

jstriebel · PostMar 07, 2014#11422014-03-07T21:11+00:00

Eastward wrote:^ Has security or crime been seen as an issue near the stadium on game days? I've not heard of any problems and wouldn't think, with so many people around that it would be an issue.

I don't think so.

I don't want to speak for anyone, but I believe the only reason crime came up was because the topic veered towards appealing to other demographics as a city. And as we know, the city on the whole suffers from a perception (and in certain areas a reality) of crime.

But downtown, and more specifically, this part of downtown doesn't have issues that I'm aware of. Especially not on game days/nights.

Eastward · PostMar 07, 2014#11432014-03-07T21:42+00:00

I wouldn't think crime would be an issue on game days with many people around. However, in reference to crime downtown, this one source shows quite a bit of crime downtown in general: http://www.trulia.com/for_sale/Saint_Lo ... _zm/map_v/

BrickCity4470 · PostMar 07, 2014#11442014-03-07T22:14+00:00

I will go on to correct myself and say any city and town in this country and planet can be down right dangerous at any given day night time hour minute 2nd.. St.Louis has a lot going for its just crime is the biggest problem here.. I wouldnt call myself scared of any situation in the city or county. I remember 1 night a friend and i happen to go to the galleria and this was during the holiday season. We noticed big mobs of young adults and teens we really didn't think anything of it until i got home and turned on the news the very same young adults and teens we saw started a big brawl down in the food court... This morning i was taking pictures of the new Stan span off of Broadway and Mound St and that area is pretty darn gritty but that was the best way of getting some pics of that very beautiful bridge while its lit up.... Busch 3 is actually very safe so i don't think more security is warranted besides that could probably scare off new comers to town who've never been here before..
Interesting i felt more unsafe in Kansas City and Memphis to be honest i don't think ive ever felt unsafe in St.Louis . I still venture to the Arch Grounds whenever..

siu850956106 · PostMar 08, 2014#11452014-03-08T06:35+00:00

STLEnginerd wrote:
Being from Carbondale I completely agree. A huge number of the 5 million or so people that go to Busch Stadium and the arch every year are bumpkins from boonies. And as much as I like the hip places to dine in downtown it really isn't the speed that that demographic is looking for. I'm always in favor of the city doing things to appeal to a wide range of people. St. Louis is not a cow town, but its close to thousands of cow towns. Why shouldn't St. Louis make itself more inviting for those people?

You could start by being a little more inviting yourself. As hard as it is to believe most of them can read.

Sorry, that did come out wrong, but I am a bumpkin from the boonies. I love stl, but I've lived in unincorporated Jackson County for a decade now. I hunt coyotes, and natty light and wild turkey were mainstays in my higschool social scene haha. I don't say "bumpkin" or "boonies" disparagingly, though I admit it sounded like that.

goat314 · PostMar 10, 2014#11462014-03-10T01:35+00:00

Not looking bad with the signs on it, should look great lit up at night time. Even better when we get some mixed use residential infill around it.

jstriebel · PostMar 10, 2014#11472014-03-10T01:53+00:00

Looking very nice. Big signs with lights are so awesome.

I know that aside from the signs it's not an amazing design, but I think it's the right look for what it is.

JuanHamez · PostMar 10, 2014#11482014-03-10T02:02+00:00

Overall I'm happy with how its turned out. It might not be amazing but it is certainly excellent and I hope that it is very successful. Looking forward to what is planned for phase II.

Gateway City · PostMar 10, 2014#11492014-03-10T02:29+00:00

I'm impressed. I figured it would look like a Ballwin strip mall, but I was wrong. It may not be the Chemical Building, but it's not Aventura, either. This is about as good looking as we should expect for City Walk as well, because I believe that one's also going to turn out better than we thought (hopefully).

Eastward · PostMar 10, 2014#11502014-03-10T02:43+00:00

Gateway City wrote:...It may not be the Chemical Building, but it's not Aventura, either. This is about as good looking as we should expect for City Walk as well, because I believe that one's also going to turn out better than we thought (hopefully).

Love it. I hope City Walk turns out better, but I'm afraid most of these new developments are going to look similar to this. As you said, it isn't awful, but anytime they try to replicate or incorporate some historical elements, the finished product always turns out a bit hokey. Fine to try to make Ballpark Village a little old fashioned looking, but the newer residential construction should be modern with respect to the surroundings. I think 691 Mass. Ave in Boston is the best example I've seen: http://www.archboston.org/community/sho ... php?t=4100 The number 3 photo in this tread.

Ballpark Village

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