urbanSTL

^I wouldn't get my hopes up. History has shown that "entertainment" developments like this do not ignite other development in the city, i.e. Union Station, St Louis Centre, etc. I do think this is a good addition though. It is far from my cup of tea, but it is a great fit for suburbanites and people from rural Missouri and Illinois to experience the city. I believe it will provide the "safe and comfortable" feel they want.

Having lived in the city for a long time now I forget how large it seems to those who do not reside here or experience it regularly. Negotiating the different neighborhoods can very difficult and in effect nerve-racking/scary to the novice.

BrickCity4470 wrote:Does anyone think if the first phase of this is successful that it could start off a potential south downtown retail commercial and even residential boom?

I agree with ^ that it is unlikely to result in much development outside BPV. However, the degree of success will probably be a significant factor in how quickly they move forward with Phase II, whatever that may be.

BrickCity4470 wrote:Does anyone think if the first phase of this is successful that it could start off a potential south downtown retail commercial and even residential boom?

I think it will do very good on game days and in the summer. I think when people ask "do you think it will be successful" they mean to say "can it draw people on non game days in the winter". I think as of right now on one really can say.

^ Game days will be hugely successful I believe. A day in the middle of winter? I have my doubts. The occasional winter tourist and a smattering of the seemingly dwindling neighboring office worker population might pop in as well, but certainly it won't be as popular a place as on game days.

For the 3 million Cardinals fans who attend games downtown each year it will be a must see experience. I believe fans will come downtown an hour or two earlier and stay later because of BPV. Hopefully, out of town tourist and fans will tour the Hall of Fame and hopefully stay an extra day. There is no doubt in my mind that Paddy-Os and Shannon will be hurt by BPV at least this year, but, I believe over all food and beverage sales will be up for the year increasing our local sales taxes. The same could probably be said for the first few years of Union Station and St. Louis Center. The challenge will be long-term viability.

^ Game days will be abuzz with activity both before and after with both locals and those from parts farther afield. Middle of the winter? I think there will be little activity, so let's hope game season is enough to sustain it. Black Friday is called such because that is the date at which most places turn a profit right? With this development, the profit period will be game season.

I know that P&L in KC is struggling a bit, but there is still some activity through and through because of clubs and the fact that the arena can host events throughout the winter. Let's hope BPV can sustain some activity in the off season.

Roger, nice find on Cordish and Louisville. I think the financing paragraph in the article explains a lot on how Cordish works and why it is slow go for BPV. Add the Louisville numbers and the biggest financer/backer is the government. The next phase of BPV will require a hotel willing to make a significant contribution or DeWitt willing to front a residential tower or government back the bonds of either one. I don't see any of them happening in the near term as downtown already has a lot of rooms with recent investments into existing properties, DeWitt could have made that commitment years ago and the city/state has already gone as far at they are willing to go.

Omni will invest $105 million in the project, with $30 million coming from Cordish. Kentucky will contribute $90.5 million through tax rebates, with Louisville adding $35.5 million. Of the city’s share, about $17 million is the value of the land, which the city bought two years ago, and about $17 million will go to construct a parking garage. The city’s share also includes a $1.5 million contingency fund.

The problem with entertainment developments like this is one and KC's P+L that they're all pre-fabricated, unoriginal cut and paste toys. I'm sure it will be successful, but I don't think it's going to be as fun to hang out there as Cherokee, the Grove, the Loop, etc. Those are all organic entertainment districts that are each at the hearts of their own communities, which is another problem BPV has (for now) - it isn't a neighborhood. Nobody lives there. Maybe one day when it's all built and there are lots of residents, workers, and legit shops and entertainment besides riding electronic bulls, then it will become as much a part of the City's identity as those other areas. But it has no Casa Loma Ballroom, UCB brewery, Vintage Vinyl, Tivoli, Pageant, Folk School, Wash-U, Moonrise Hotel, Cinderella Building, etc. Then again, those are all historic neighborhoods each with their own rich history. Maybe when BPV is "historic" in 50 years, it will be as interesting as those areas are today. And hopefully it will have more to do than eat and go to a museum.

So can you say Phase 2 could possibly break ground in 3 years if the economy continues to improve? For some reason i feel St.Louis has a bigger edge over KC and Louisville since the Cardinals are a world wide team they can draw support from anywhere even during the offseason cause baseball offseason's are about 5 months pending if the team makes it to the playoffs.. I bet if they announced today that they were going to build a 30 floor luxury apartment building how fast would those sell out..?.

^ 30 floors might be a bit much, but I am pretty confident a reasonably-sized residential tower would do very well... add on a few floors for a boutique Cardinals/sports themed hotel and you could have a really nice addition to the skyline. Put a rooftop bar to top it off.

Good thing we didn't back it, otherwise we might have buildings with residents and workers inside of them instead of parking lots.

If BPV is ever going to have a 30 story residential tower, it's going to have to wait until buildings like the Alverne, Chemical, Arcade, etc. are occupied and we can see how successful they truly are. St. Louis doesn't have towers going up Downtown like similar-sized cities do because we have too many large, vacant ones already. Then there's the 30 story proposed Drury Tower. And, hey, maybe even Sky House! Then there's the McKee low-rises proposed near Union Station, too. So, there's a lot of new infill proposed. I believe that once these vacant buildings are occupied, we'll start seeing some good new infill. Maybe not 3 towers each over 250 ft. all at once, but maybe one or two of them plus some low-rises and mid-rises. When those towers' time is here, I would want one of them to be a BPV tower that is a game-changer for our skyline.

Hopefully if all those units can sell, they new residents will attract retail and offices Downtown. The streetcar should help as well.

Presbyterian wrote:If they had balconies looking into the stadium, they would sell quite well. Such units would become weekend homes to well heeled ladusiers and west countians. Such weekend residents would also bring a lot of spending to downtown restaurants.

omg,,,, ladusier! Combo of Ladue and Hoosier! I love you!

I don't think -all- the vacant buildings must be occupied first, but most of the big ones probably will. Also, BPV better have more to offer than just luxury condos.

Would condos work better over apartments or vice versa.
I feel if KC can get a 25 floor new apartment building even though the Sprint Center doesn't have a big sporting anchor why couldn't St.Louis and its has one of the worlds most loved teams..
Problem with St.Louis is they make these big announcements and renderings then we wait months after months and sometimes years then the very same project is significantly scaled back even when the economy is doing good.. I know the city doesn't own the land and maybe its a good thing cause i believe the city would build endless parking garages to entice the suburbanites in what they want and not what the residents of the city want... Maybe having the Arch is a great thing just think if all those 40 blocks were abandoned we'll never see new construction

A minor league team in Lansing, Michigan wants to build 80 - 100 apartments right on top of their outfield wall:


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-l ... 08092.html

We got two-tone cowboys fixed to the northeast corner.

Where are you seeing the TGIFs? There is already one just up the street next to Hooters.

The "Friday's on Clark" weekly festivals actually sounds pretty cool, though. We'll see how those go.

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