urbanSTL

dmelsh wrote:Ok, what am I not getting here. Why are people so mad about this hotel not being in BPV? Why would the Goodsports hotel even consider BVP? Where downtown do you see the sports fields to support this? As the article says the hotel / company is centered around traveling athletes and their families. When I played select soccer and traveled every weekend, not once did teams not chose a hotel that wasn't right next to the fields. Why would you chose a hotel that is ~30 mins any field? For the demographics they are looking for, it just doesn't work.

Now, lets look at the Chesterfield location. 5 mins from soccer / baseball / softball / lacrosse / field hockey fields, shopping, restaurants, and quick access via the highway. If I was still a traveling athlete and family, this would be a perfect situation.

Now I'm not saying we don't need a hotel downtown at BPV, but this is not the right hotel that should go there.

You make very good points, however, the location in Chesterfield, according to the press release, says, "The village will be comprised of a 130-room athlete-minded hotel with an adjacent 85,000 square foot state-of-the- art fieldhouse." It goes on to say....."The village site of apprxoimately (sic) 10 acres will be located at the southwest quadrant of Premium Way and Outlet Boulevard adjacent to St. Louis Premium Outlets which opened August 22, 2013.

Unless I am missing something, there doesn't seem to be an actual field for the planned project in Chesterfield based on the PR. Below is the site plan. There's more parking than anything. Perhaps BPV wasn't scouted at all. Nobody's "mad" but with all of the sports-oriented tourism in St. Louis, it seems this could have been a great addition to BPV and downtown.



The project is planned for the $300-million Chesterfield Blue Valley development.

^Yeah, but there's also major league sports stadiums downtown that are underutilized during certain times of the year.

Honestly, it's really no point in protracted debate at this time because they chose Chesterfield. Good for Chesterfield.

I'm satisfied that the region wasn't overlooked by the firm.

Nonetheless, it is past time for BPV/Cardinals/Cordish to step it up.

Fields are part of the proposal in Chesterfield -- the spot on KMOV tonight gave a lot of detail on it. They will have training facilities and K through middle school facilities; soccer was specifically mentioned as a goal that the facility hosts select tournaments. I get the footprint need for space, so maybe that's it? Also, BPV probably didn't pursue it because it's not part of their master plan. I can't help but assume Cordish knows what it's looking for in terms of tenants. KMOV also interviewed another facility owner in Chesterfield (Rams training center) who argued that the size of the proposed facility is too big for the market (sounds like sour grapes). I wondered why the Rams training center owner didn't own something closer to EJD.

^I saw the report too. No grassy fields were mentioned. Only a large "field" house. The report is on KMOV.com.

Also, Cordish may have a master plan for BPV, but it ain't working out too well so far.

arch city wrote:^Yeah, but there's also major league sports stadiums downtown that are underutilized during certain times of the year.

Honestly, it's really no point in protracted debate at this time because they chose Chesterfield. Good for Chesterfield.

I'm satisfied that the region wasn't overlooked by the firm.

Nonetheless, it is past time for BPV/Cardinals/Cordish to step it up.

I don't get what you are saying. Are you implying that those fields should be hosting youth tournaments?

If Chouteau Greenway is more of a dream than realistic plan for the next decade or two (hopefully there is indeed behind-the-scenes progress), perhaps Great Rivers Greenway could consider creating multipurpose ballfields back there and partner on an innovative youth sports program geared to city youth in collaboration with the pro sports brands and Saint Louis City... that could be very awesome. With enough property acquisition, you might be able to hold regional tournaments as well and have some revenue generation.

Let's just say that everyone on this forum is entitled to their own opinions and ideas. Ideas and opinions are thrown around here every day and it's good that we have this forum to express our ideas, concerns and opinions about regional matters.

I think it is safe to say that we all want quality and meaningful projects - especially at BPV - but what's an appropriate or a good idea for one person may not be so for another..............and that's okay. We are all entitled to our opinions, suggestions and ideas.

Everyone has their own perspectives on how projects - particularly BPV - should be designed, what should be built, how slow-going BPV has gone, how there's too much parking etc. Some people are content with the pace and design of BPV's development. They are all just opinions, observations and ideas.

With that said, kbshapiro, five of the 10-acres at the Chesterfield site appear to be for parking. This is nothing but a glorified modern athletic club. Think..... Missouri Athletic Club's downtown clubhouse but for "traveling" sports families. MAC has 80 guest rooms. They could have easily stacked a sports facility and hotel on top of a parking facility at BPV. 10-acres wouldn't be needed.

Question: How would NYC or Chicago urbanize such a facility?

Again, I am not right or wrong. I just have opinion. Such a facility, I think, would have been a good fit for the sports-themed "Ballpark Village". In the end, it doesn't matter because the facility is going up on 10-acres in Chesterfield. It's not necessarily "a loss" for downtown or BPV because it was never in the city to begin with; but it seems, to me, like a missed opportunity.

dmelsh wrote:Arch, to answer your question, I don't think they would urbanize it. These complexes are meant to be on flat ground with lots of room. The Goodsports company are going to build a field-house for indoor sports and will take advantage of the soccer / baseball fields across the highway to fill their rooms. These complexes are meant to capture the traveling youth sport community, a massively going market. IMO with the new standards for these complexes they cannot be downtown and successful.

Massive sports complexes are popping up all around the country to accommodate youth sports. KC is a prime example of this.

They have what is considered the best soccer complex in the country.
Overland Park Soccer Complex
Just watch the video and listen to the interviews of the people. They are classic examples of Chesterfield suburban folk.

That complex is so successful they are building another one in Lee's Summit.
Lee's Summet Complex

I wouldn't be surprised if we hear more development like this around STL in the next few years to keep up with the arms race.

However, what's proposed in Chesterfield is not a soccer complex. Also, I understand sports and soccer megaplexes are popping up everywhere just like community aquatic centers did 10-years ago. All of GoodSport Villages necessarily won't have the same focus. It appears the Chesterfield GoodSports complex will have a different focus than soccer/baseball.

From the Press Release,

"GoodSports designed the village specifically for athletes. The (Chesterfield) fieldhouse will cater to many sports but will mainly focus on basketball, volleyball, fitness and sports medicine. The adjacent “Hotel GoodSports” will accommodate fitness oriented corporate travelers during the week and event participants during the weekend. Every amenity, furnishing and food item has been chosen to celebrate the active lifestyle; no other brand has been so dedicated in its offerings."

Nowhere in the press release does it say, "Our guests will be able to take advantage of the baseball/soccer fields across the highway" although I am sure visitors could access the fields if permitted. The sports fields across the highway don't appear to have been instrumental or the determining factor in landing the facility. The main focus of this project appears to be the state-of-the-art fieldhouse.

Here's an in-depth interview with the developer of Chesterfield Blue Valley on FOX 2. The primary focus will be volleyball according to the land owner/developer - Dean Wolff.

^You could be right. I'm sure nearby tournaments on the fields could be a boon to the complex, but I don't see evidence, yet, that was a factor in them choosing the site based their press releases and TV media. In fact, they discuss the outlet malls in the press release and media while the nearby sports fields haven't been mentioned at all.

I have no doubt, however, the malls and fields will see increased traffic and usage as a result of the new complex.

An urban field house/hotel would be awesome for BPV. Olympic Pool on the ground floor and gym/fieldhouse on the top floor. Rooms in the middle. It'd be amazing.

It's Just incredibly unlikely. I doubt they even build them like that in New York. In this case the Vision and and $$$ are just to far apart and certainly not a Cordish failure (there are plenty of others to cite).

All these GoodSports Hotel comments

I'm glad it's in Chesterfield, and I'm even happier it's not in Downtown. It would never fit.

Above all else, Downtown is the Central Business District of STL.
It also is full of hotels for non-business tourists.
Where sports are concerned, Downtown is for Professional Sports and NCAA Tournaments.
Downtown STL is not for minivans full of grade school soccer players.

This hotel is fully meant for families whose kids are in private athletic leagues, like select soccer and ice hockey, who are so into it that they'll travel out-of-state for overnight tournaments. These sports have never been centered on Downtown STL; I doubt they're hubbed in any major US Metro Area's Downtowns. This place is not going to be the go-to spot for people visiting STL to go to pro sports or college tournaments. It's uber-boutique and is being built proximate to all these giant athletic fields in the Chesterfield Valley flood plains. Dare I say, GoodSports sounds like the most suburban-minded hotelier in the entire US, and we should be overjoyed that BPV is not going to be just a suburban-minded stopover in the heart of Downtown.

Perhaps what's going on is that we're all so frustrated on BPV's delays that we're grabbing for anything to go here. We're so thirsty for new construction, we don't care if the water is poisoned...

Meanwhile, and not wanting to repeat myself, the Regional Business thread had a posting earlier on the Peabody Hotel considering expanding outside of its Memphis home and extending their brand to hotels in select cities nationwide.
Source: http://www.stltoday.com/business/column ... 0b320.html

Idea: The Saint Louis Cardinals & Cordish should partner with The Peabody. Working together, these companies should build a new Peabody Hotel at the SW corner of BPV.
Ten stories.
Big "Peabody" sign on the top (FYI I know of one not being used right now near SLU...).
Ducks in Downtown.
Perfect for Cardinals fans coming in from the South for a game.
Red bricks to match BPV, Cupples Station, and the Peabody's Memphis home.

This is the most self-evident project that can be built at BPV.

It's interesting how there's talk here about "soccer" and "fields" and such when the GSE press release on the Chesterfield facility mentions nothing of the sort. The facility isn't meant to be fully for families whose children are in the private leagues. The PR says nothing of the sort - and neither does the company's website. Read the website. According to website, it's meant for "the traveling sports market" - not only families with kids in sports leagues.

Here is the packet for the Chesterfield site, which gives a good overview of what's planned. The facility is due to open April 2015. No mentions of soccer, baseball or ice hockey.

"GoodSports designed the village specifically for athletes. The (Chesterfield) fieldhouse will cater to many sports but will mainly focus on basketball, volleyball, fitness and sports medicine. The adjacent “Hotel GoodSports” will accommodate fitness oriented corporate travelers during the week and event participants during the weekend. Every amenity, furnishing and food item has been chosen to celebrate the active lifestyle; no other brand has been so dedicated in its offerings."

So while the design may not be appropriate for downtown or BPV, which I agree, such a concept would work well downtown if designed differently. Again........consider the Missouri Athletic Club. The only difference between GoodSports and MAC, for the most part, is that GoodSports isn't a "member's only" club and it will accept kids.

Furthermore, athletes of all kinds and families with children participating in athletics and other events stay in downtown hotels all of the time. Plus, families are always downtown at City Museum, City Garden, Union Station, the Gateway Arch etc. [And since we are on the topic, downtown shouldn't be for single yuppies, buppies, suits, techies and the homeless only. Downtown still needs more family and kid-friendly attractions and amenities.]

Further, GoodSports is planning a total of 25 locations for cities all across the U.S.. Keep in mind that Chesterfield is only the THIRD one planned thus far. Therefore, one cannot gauge fully if any of these hotels/fieldhouses will eventually land in an urban downtown core. So far, Charlotte's proposal comes the closest and it is only a mere five minutes from downtown/Uptown so the proposal in Charlotte proves that GoodSports isn't targeting the suburban market only.

And based on their "At A Glance" page, they will locate wherever they feel they can get incentives. So if Mayor Rahm Emanuel in Chicago goes after a location for The Loop/Downtown area then offers GSE incentives, I'm sure they'll find a location.

I'll be keeping a watchful eye on where future locations are built in cities.