urbanSTL

Yes, St. Louis has long settled for the silver lining of the cloud of mediocrity. ("At least that unnecessary parking garage they're building will have ground floor retail", etc. etc.)

Aventura is a visual blight and an extremely unfortunate lost opportunity to create something iconic--or even just interesting--for an improving neighborhood.

^No parking garage is planned. Just a surface gated lot. And Alex as far as the positives being stated over and over again? I read all replies to the post before writing and I definitely did not see all of those positives. Most of what I read were comments from people going on and on about the design, how they could have designed it better, its' too suburban, they would rather have a vacant lot there (which wow. Really?)etc. I think that it is beyond obvious that I am affiliated with Aventura at Forest Park. My name is Sarah Jackson and I am the Property Manager. Being a part of this community means alot to the owners/developers as well as myself. I myself am a city dweller and I do understand that we do not fit in with the brick imprint that is the majority of this area. However, that being said I think that such derogatory comments should be subsiding by now. We are here, we are in support of neighborhood growth and the neighborhood in general, and we don't plan on going anywhere. We are proud to be a part of such a great community that is getting even better by the day. So for those of you that don't like the way we like, there is nothing we can do about your opinion, but please know that our intentions are good and we are here to help out in any way we can.

Those are some great positives! Keep up the good work. (I'm serious and not trying to be snarky)

However we are allowed to voice our opinion on what many of us believe is an agregious architectural design that's just not appropriate for the neighborhood.

Of course it's great for the neighborhood and I'm glad it's there. I also think a lot of the criticism is overblown, but I tend to agree that the design is rather uninspiring, especially since the project is visible from 64/40. The designers had an opportunity to create a landmark there that would have helped put the Grove on the visual map, but instead most people will just zoom by without giving it a second look, which is a shame.

I think the silent majority of the FPSE feels it is a plus for the neighborhood.

Good for you Sarah! I love the fact that you came on here to passionately state your opinion and defend your development because the anti-Adventura opinion, which I respect also, is alive and well...almost whipping-boy like.

But in the end, it's your bosses capital, and their leveraged capital (read ballz), that are getting something positive done in a once schitt-hole neighborhood. And as much as I respect and have learned alot from these urbanists' opinions, to my knowledge none of them have the brass ballz, nor the capital, to do something like this.

So don't let the magpies get to you....

What should be good? It's the truth..I went to SLUH in the early 90's, that neighborhood was a schitt-hole.....

sirshankalot wrote:What should be good? It's the truth..I went to SLUH in the early 90's, that neighborhood was a schitt-hole.....

Aventura is riding the coattails of a multi-million dollar streetscape project on Manchester, a complete redefinition of the area's reputation from "seedy" to "hip" and a rebranding as "The Grove", numerous residential rehabs (especially north of Manchester)...Aventura is not the pioneer here, clearly. It is a market response to growth in the Central Corridor and, presently, high demand for apartments.

As Sarah notes, "complaining" will not unbuild or redesign Aventura. But it sure would have been nice for the public to have gotten its say prior to the design/construction so that the neighborhood could have both good design on the one hand and added residents/activity on the other.

^^so who cares if it's any eyesore since it's better than a gas-o-meter?

Sirshanksalot included 2 of my favorite responses Both in the same post!

1. It's not your money/building so you don't have a right to an opinion and

2. Well it's better than what was there before/at least they are building something

sj422,

I appreciate all the positives you mention and actions taken to participate in and better the neighborhood community. Beyond the look of the buildings, the buildings face away from the neighborhood, the fences wall it off, and the lack of any commercial space misses out on an opportunity to bring residents of the development and residents of the rest of the neighborhood together (like cafe, neighborhood gym, etc). Those aspects matter a lot in being a part of a community. It's not an either-or, is it? Would the neighborhood not have all the good effects of Adventura that you've pointed out if the design of the project had been more in lines of what's advocated on this website?

It's kind of like in my neighborhood, which has very strong community, saying it's welcoming and being welcoming, but blocks many of its streets which says "stay out."

moorlander wrote:^^so who cares if it's any eyesore since it's better than a gas-o-meter?

Sirshanksalot included 2 of my favorite responses Both in the same post!

1. It's not your money/building so you don't have a right to an opinion and

2. Well it's better than what was there before/at least they are building something

You're wrong..i repeatedly mentioned that I respected the urbanists' opinions..read it again. i even mentioned how much I've learned from their opinions...couldn't be more wrong.

I noticed a for sale sign on the Station G building. I guess that means no immediate plans for condos....

quincux the fence is not to seem unwelcoming. The biggest concern in the city that I have seen with renters is security. The fence is there to provide a sense of security. It's just like in the Central West End most buildings are secured entry. I do receive and respect everyone's opinion because it is just that...an opinion. I was just asking people to look beyond what they think of our appearance and notice that we do mean well.

^Agreed that the desire was not specifically for brick. This same design in brick wouldn't necessarily be an improvement. An appropriate urban design can use many different materials.

I live in the neighborhood, and like others (including many I've talked to in the neighborhood) I think the design is lacking but Aventura is a net plus for the neighborhood. My main suggestions for the developers should they look to build again in the neighborhood:

1. The design is pretty bland. Unlike some others on the forum I don't think it looks super cheap or tacky, just bland. It's all grays and browns and doesn't really have anything to attract they eye. Even some paint on the siding could go a long way to improving it since the other design features are already done. If designing new buildings, consider doing something bolder or more modern.
2. The amount of parking provided is excessive for the number of units, especially in a building so close to a Metro stop and probably renting to a number of people who will walk to the BJC/WUMS campus.
3. There's too much fencing, making the complex seem walled-off and disengaged from the rest of the neighborhood. Just having gates across the driveway and the pedestrian entrances would have been sufficient to provide security to renters (and keep free-loaders out the pool) without making the whole complex feel isolated. Then again, providing some free swim day for the whole neighborhood wouldn't be unwelcome...

The main kudos:

1. Regardless of the demographic trend in the neighborhood, anyone developing the first big new construction market-rate apartment complex is taking some amount of risk.
2. Adding a new group of residents to the neighborhood is fantastic.
3. The parking is largely hidden in the back rather than falling in between the street and the building. I would actually take the Aventura, bland design and all, over the Cortona, which I think has a more attractive design but is surrounded on all sides by parking.
4. The building doesn't have a giant setback from the street.
5. There are pedestrian gates provided at several points in the fence, unlike the West End Terrace complex in the CWE I lived in years ago where I had to walk through the driveway gate.
6. The Aventura has contributed money to neighborhood events.

I think it's time to move on from complaining about the appearance of the Aventura (justified though those complaints may be) and focus on the new form-based code for the neighborhood, which will include massing and design guidelines for future buildings. I don't think anything new can be said about the Aventura, but focusing on neighborhood design guidelines will be more productive. At last night's neighborhood association meeting, Alderman Roddy announced that the neighborhood has received the greenlight from the city to move forward with the form-based code process for FPSE. Proposals were received from 3 agencies and they hope to begin public meetings in the neighborhood in 60 days or so.

Also, Slj422, please consider coming to the neighborhood meetings, and recommend that your residents do the same. It's the best way to get integrated into the neighborhood and meet your neighbors. Information about the neighborhood association and some other neighborhood groups can be found on the neighborhood association's website, forestparksoutheast.com. Send me a private message more for more info if you'd like.

gone corporate wrote:Honestly, a couple coats of paint on that eggshell / off-white cement board (that sure looks like vinyl siding) could change the entire dynamic of this project. It doesn't have to be brick-color red; in fact, coloring the tops of the different buildings multiple sharp colors could be incredible for the site (one Blue, one Green, one Yellow, etc.). But that off-white color as it is today reeks of cheapness.

I absolutely agree that it's great these buildings are being built with full amenities targeted towards professionals, especially those working in and around BJC & Cortex sites. New housing is very much welcome here. It's just that, does it really have to look like something out of Warrenton dropped in the middle of the City?

Aventura has a "great personality", but sure isn't much to look at. A little makeup could do wonders here...

This is the best critique in my opinion. I also agree with all of the positives that rbeedee noted above. My overall opinion is similar to most here- I am a bit disappointed that the design doesn't make the most of the setting. However, I am extremely happy to see a new market-rate development here that I believe will still add to the vibrancy of FPSE. But I also agree 100% with you- just a bit of color would do wonders for the curb (and the Highway 40) appeal. At least it might be an upgrade that merits consideration for the next phase and updates of the existing buildings in the future.

I really just do not understand why something this ugly ever even got off the drawing board. The blueprints should have been thrown in the trash. It is good that it is introducing more residents to the area, but there is still no excuse at all for its appearance. I honestly do believe it is the ugliest residential devleopment built in the City this decade.