urbanSTL

Why on earth wouldn't this project get tax abatement?

West Pine Lofts is replacing historic warehouses
City Walk is replacing the Doctors Building (perhaps the largest MCM building in the neighborhood)
Opus' 4643 Lindell is replacing the American Heart Association Building
The Rosati-Kain expansion is replacing an MCM apartment building
Park Central voted in favor of 3 years 100% tax abatement + 2 years 50% tax abatement for the Lawrence Group's Lindell project which involves demolition of a building without replacing it!

I think it is fair to say the quality of the Optimist as an example of MCM architecture compared to the above list is second only to the Doctor's Building. Also remember that the Doctor's Building was replaced with a hole in the ground so the tax abatement was granted to replace a hole in the ground with City Walk. That demo was authorized years ago and at a time when demolition was seen as a tool for development. Now, thankfully, that notion is far less prevalent.

I don't see why abatement is the lynch pin to get this project going. This project would be in one of the most desirable location in the city. If they were taking on a lot of risk like building it in a transitional area like Delmar, Grand Center, Downtown West, Vandeventer in the Grove, South of the Tracks Downtown, or Columbus Square, I'd recommend throwing tons of incentives at them. Here the only question is can it be built for a price that keeps rents in line with the current market and still make a decent profit, because if so its guaranteed success. Tax abatment should really be channeled toward visionaries and risk takers and with so much currently on the table, if this one slid a few years I don't think it'd that much of a setback.

That said if they offered tax abatement, I wouldn't cry foul. To me its a judgement call based on the momentum created by current and expected future development.

^ Seems like the tax abatement package offered for the Remington Rand would be a fair standard now for projects in the area that are otherwise approved... 3 yrs. full, 2 yrs. 50%. Probably a bit more stretched out for downtown still.

"The Central West End is doing really well. Do we really need to offer tax abatement for another apartment building?"

Absolutely, yes. "For another apartment building?" Really?!?! So backwards-thinking.

This is what frustrates me with St. Louis. The power some people have to kill good projects is unbelievable. And people wonder why St. Louis is slow-growing and why many big national developers haven't arrived in STL. It can be a pain in the ass to get things done.

As I see it, developers are trying to bring MORE high-end residential to the CWE. That's not a bad thing. The CWE is a hot area of town right now, but it is not at a place where tax abatements are no longer necessary. Developers aren't exactly tripping over each other to develop vacant parcels in CWE just yet. To take away development tax abatement/incentives sends a bad message to developers, I think.

To me, getting a few new residential buildings in the CWE over eight years (or so) and a few new projects and proposals is not indicative the CWE has fully arrived. In comparison to some other city neighborhoods, yes, but as long as there are still empty lots, empty and under-used buildings in the CWE, potential developers will need some assistance.

The CWE isn't the Houston Galleria/Uptown or Buckhead in Atlanta just yet, yet projects in both Buckhead and Uptown/Galleria are STILL getting tax abatements from those cities - even though the tax abatement debate rages in those cities as well.

And last, just because The Standard did not request incentives - it shouldn't be indicative other CWE developers won't need assistance. The Standard is being targeted to a specific market - college students - particularly SLU. Developers will get their money back, trust me, easily, because WUSTL, St. Louis College of Pharmacy, HSSU, and SLU are right there. You could even throw in Fontbonne University.

Those private college apartment complexes can be hideously expensive. Trust me, they'll get their money back.

Give Covington Realty Partners a tax break.

^ good point about the non-profit situation. 15 yrs. is too long, probably even 10 for CWE.

Maybe something that can be looked at for future Central Corridor projects that would be served by a Lindell line would be a way to capture $$ for streetcar line development. Perhaps extending out tax abatement contingent upon contributions to a streetcar development fund. So for example perhaps 100% abatement for 5 years with a 30% equivalent streetcar development fee followed by 5 years of 50% tax abatement with 100% equivalent to streetcar.

^ Well Park Central only recommended 100% for 3 years and 50% for 2 years for the Remington Rand.... I think that is not unreasonable. With my vision, the developers would get some more tax abatement but they also would be plowing some of that revenue back into streetcar development.... I guess kind of a TDD. Anyway, the streetcar isn't going to be built for a long time unless some creative revenue is identified.

goat314 wrote:Yes, I think Alderman Roddy is a little too confident about the stature of the CWE.

Term limits.

When some people are in office too long, they start to act as if they are King and Queen of the wards and constituents they serve. And unfortunately, some of their poor and short-sighted decision-making becomes a problem for the city at-large ------Roddy, Bosley, Sr. etc. etc. As they get old, sometimes their perspectives get old with them.

Send them packing after two four year terms. Maybe some Republicans and Independents could get a seat at the table for once.

And by the way, jcity, great point on The Optimist Club not providing taxes for decades since it's a non profit.

I still can't get over the comment........"Do we really need to offer tax abatement for another apartment building?"

Yet, these are the same people who facilitated a 10-year tax abatement for the LaClede Lofts - which yielded only 50-units. Is there some prejudice here because Covington Realty Partners is based in Chicago?

Construction on the project started about a year ago. It included converting the old Pfeiffer Pharmaceutical Co. building into lofts. The development received $3.25 million in tax credits, including Missouri Historic Preservation Tax Credits and federal tax credits, according to Fryrear.

Park Central Development, Alderman Joe Roddy and the St. Louis Development Corp. facilitated a 10-year tax abatement on the project.

^I definitely hear what you are saying.........but at one time the "experienced" was inexperienced.

Sometimes so-called "experience" can be a drag on progress. Eight years in office is long enough, in my opinion.

While both have cities have their issues, term limits haven't hurt Houston or Atlanta, which are still growing in population with improving economies.

^^^ not that this is an excuse, but that package for Laclede Lofts was probably put together in 2012, which was an entirely different era for CWE development. And again more recently it only went 5 for the smaller Rem Rand.... I can see starting to soften off 10 years in most cases but your right equity and clear standards need to be in place. (Anyone know what West Pine is getting?)

The article also reminded me that Winzerling was looking at another development near his Laclede Lofts. Hopefully we'll hear something soon.

^ Rem Rand is the 4100 Lindell 3 story mid-Modern building that Lawrence Group is turning into apts. and a bank.... It already has been approved.