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PostMar 12, 2025#1126

dbInSouthCity wrote:
Mar 12, 2025
That tracks with the admin’s accomplishments doesn’t it?  Urbanist saw so some of the biggest wins under this admin this century; updated land use plan, updated zoning code, first ever citywide transportation and mobility plan, individual neighborhoods plans, biggest investment in safer roadway, just look at Scott’s tweets over the last few years on that front

https://twitter.com/scottogilviestl?s=21

Until this past winter, the City did not have an ADA Transition Plan in place. The process of cataloging non-compliant infrastructure took two years, from 2021 to 2023. Since then, the City has been gradually addressing the identified issues. This month, those efforts have reached Washington Avenue, where all curb ramps are being replaced to meet ADA standards.
All true and good. I'll add the new Enterprise Resource Planning (ERD) system to the list. Too bad its all urbanist/public policy nerd sh*t that normie voters do not know about and, if told, wouldn't care anyway.

Jones is taking the L because she spent most of her administration addressing important but boring issues neglected (purposefully?) by the last 4 administrations (Krewson, Slay, Bosley, Harmon, maybe Schoemel, too), while neglecting her day-to-day core responsibilities, at least in the popular imagination. Her accomplishments will pay silent dividends for decades to come, while trash, crime, roads, etc. will remain forever subpar (fingers crossed, slightly less subpar under Mayor Spencer). 

Christ Himself could return to run the City and wouldn't get very far without City Charter reforms that consolidate real, actual governing power within the Mayor's Office.

This conversation seems to have run its course. I suggest we close the thread until/unless there's a colossal upset in Jones's favor on 4/8.

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PostMar 12, 2025#1127

jivecitystl wrote:
Mar 12, 2025
Auggie wrote:
Mar 12, 2025
jivecitystl wrote:
Mar 12, 2025
Those are great advancements and I am sure Mayor Spencer will continue to pursue those and other pro-urban initiatives.  Scott has done an incredible job.
This is the #1 issue with pro-Spencer people. They're all "sure" a heavily corporate interest backed candidate will just continue the policies of the incumbent that those same supporters claim is doing a bad job and deserves to be ousted. Pinnacle of incoherent and it's really no wonder none of you can form a real, comprehensive argument if under the hood you actually agree with the majority of what the Jones administration has done.
What's the #1 issue with pro-Jones people?  Denial?  A penchant for gaslighting?  Inability to respect differences of opinion without hurling "RACISM!" insults at people who don't agree with you?  I can't keep track.  Stop telling people that everything is awesome when lived experience tells a very different story.  The facts and figures you keep posting are great and all but they don't exist in a vacuum.  There is more to leadership than just some positive numbers (also recognize that MANY trends under this admin are not going in a positive direction).  

Auggie, since you have all the answers and solutions I think YOU should run for mayor instead of continuing this embarrassing Weekend at Bernie's charade for TJ.  A credible campaign would demonstrate some humility after a primary showing like that, but most of Jones's surrogates think blaming the voters is a better path to victory.  Good luck with that.
It's just so blatantly apparent that you have not been following what I post on here. You very clearly can't keep track at all.

I've posted comprehensive arguments in favor of my position 3 times, I went over the entire Spencer campaign website and explained issues that I had, and I even made a list of multiple points on things I disagree with Jones while back.

I have never said any individuals are voting against Jones because of her race, I have never claimed that Jones is perfect (actually the exact opposite), and I have never accused Spencer supporters of being paid- yet I've been accused multiple times.

And you're correct, there absolutely is more to leadership than just pretty numbers. That's why it's an unintelligent idea to put someone who's never held and executive office in charge of a $1B+ budget and organization that employees thousands of people.

PostMar 12, 2025#1128

I'm also so perplexed by this accusation of gaslighting......

Was trash perfect before 2021? Was there no 911 problem before 2021? Is there not a brand new 911 facility being built right now? Was the city fully staffed before 2021? Was downtown thriving before 2021? Was there plans for some of our biggest vacancies before 2021? Was the population increasing before 2021?

These are all things you have either misled or blatantly lied about. Pretty sure that's actually gaslighting.

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PostMar 12, 2025#1129

The mayor is not in charge of the budget, the Board of Estimate and Apportionment is which the mayor is only 1 of 3.

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PostMar 12, 2025#1130

Auggie wrote:
Mar 12, 2025
jivecitystl wrote:
Mar 12, 2025
Auggie wrote:
Mar 12, 2025

This is the #1 issue with pro-Spencer people. They're all "sure" a heavily corporate interest backed candidate will just continue the policies of the incumbent that those same supporters claim is doing a bad job and deserves to be ousted. Pinnacle of incoherent and it's really no wonder none of you can form a real, comprehensive argument if under the hood you actually agree with the majority of what the Jones administration has done.
What's the #1 issue with pro-Jones people?  Denial?  A penchant for gaslighting?  Inability to respect differences of opinion without hurling "RACISM!" insults at people who don't agree with you?  I can't keep track.  Stop telling people that everything is awesome when lived experience tells a very different story.  The facts and figures you keep posting are great and all but they don't exist in a vacuum.  There is more to leadership than just some positive numbers (also recognize that MANY trends under this admin are not going in a positive direction).  

Auggie, since you have all the answers and solutions I think YOU should run for mayor instead of continuing this embarrassing Weekend at Bernie's charade for TJ.  A credible campaign would demonstrate some humility after a primary showing like that, but most of Jones's surrogates think blaming the voters is a better path to victory.  Good luck with that.
It's just so blatantly apparent that you have not been following what I post on here. You very clearly can't keep track at all.

I've posted comprehensive arguments in favor of my position 3 times, I went over the entire Spencer campaign website and explained issues that I had, and I even made a list of multiple points on things I disagree with Jones while back.

I have never said any individuals are voting against Jones because of her race, I have never claimed that Jones is perfect (actually the exact opposite), and I have never accused Spencer supporters of being paid- yet I've been accused multiple times.

And you're correct, there absolutely is more to leadership than just pretty numbers. That's why it's an unintelligent idea to put someone who's never held and executive office in charge of a $1B+ budget and organization that employees thousands of people.
Like I said, you know better than everyone else!  Wonder why all those shiny facts and figures haven't swayed the masses?  Maybe the majority of STL City voters are the ones living in an alternate reality?  How could they possibly ignore how much better things are now than they were 4 years ago?!!!  Why is Tishaura Jones such a hard sell this time around, when she's running against the very same challenger she beat last time?  Out of touch.  Tonedeaf.  Echo chamber.  Broken record.  Have you asked your neighbors why they didn't turn out for TJ?  Might be a more effective use of your energy than regurgitating the same ol' same ol' on the urbanist forum.

Ultimately, your misguided campaigning tactics are helping Cara Spencer more than they're helping Tishaura Jones. 

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PostMar 12, 2025#1131

jivecitystl wrote:
Mar 12, 2025
Auggie wrote:
Mar 12, 2025
jivecitystl wrote:
Mar 12, 2025
What's the #1 issue with pro-Jones people?  Denial?  A penchant for gaslighting?  Inability to respect differences of opinion without hurling "RACISM!" insults at people who don't agree with you?  I can't keep track.  Stop telling people that everything is awesome when lived experience tells a very different story.  The facts and figures you keep posting are great and all but they don't exist in a vacuum.  There is more to leadership than just some positive numbers (also recognize that MANY trends under this admin are not going in a positive direction).  

Auggie, since you have all the answers and solutions I think YOU should run for mayor instead of continuing this embarrassing Weekend at Bernie's charade for TJ.  A credible campaign would demonstrate some humility after a primary showing like that, but most of Jones's surrogates think blaming the voters is a better path to victory.  Good luck with that.
It's just so blatantly apparent that you have not been following what I post on here. You very clearly can't keep track at all.

I've posted comprehensive arguments in favor of my position 3 times, I went over the entire Spencer campaign website and explained issues that I had, and I even made a list of multiple points on things I disagree with Jones while back.

I have never said any individuals are voting against Jones because of her race, I have never claimed that Jones is perfect (actually the exact opposite), and I have never accused Spencer supporters of being paid- yet I've been accused multiple times.

And you're correct, there absolutely is more to leadership than just pretty numbers. That's why it's an unintelligent idea to put someone who's never held and executive office in charge of a $1B+ budget and organization that employees thousands of people.
Like I said, you know better than everyone else!  Wonder why all those shiny facts and figures haven't swayed the masses?  Maybe the majority of STL City voters are the ones living in an alternate reality?  How could they possibly ignore how much better things are now than they were 4 years ago?!!!  Why is Tishaura Jones such a hard sell this time around, when she's running against the very same challenger she beat last time?  Out of touch.  Tonedeaf.  Echo chamber.  Broken record.  Have you asked your neighbors why they didn't turn out for TJ?  Might be a more effective use of your energy than regurgitating the same ol' same ol' on the urbanist forum.

Ultimately, your misguided campaigning tactics are helping Cara Spencer more than they're helping Tishaura Jones. 
Yet another Reddit rant. You're just not a serious person in any way shape or form.

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PostMar 12, 2025#1132

Ebsy wrote:
Mar 12, 2025
The mayor is not in charge of the budget, the Board of Estimate and Apportionment is which the mayor is only 1 of 3.
Fundamentally misunderstands how the budget is developed. One person is in charge of the budget and that’s Paul Payne.

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PostMar 12, 2025#1133

Auggie wrote:
Mar 12, 2025
jivecitystl wrote:
Mar 12, 2025
Auggie wrote:
Mar 12, 2025

It's just so blatantly apparent that you have not been following what I post on here. You very clearly can't keep track at all.

I've posted comprehensive arguments in favor of my position 3 times, I went over the entire Spencer campaign website and explained issues that I had, and I even made a list of multiple points on things I disagree with Jones while back.

I have never said any individuals are voting against Jones because of her race, I have never claimed that Jones is perfect (actually the exact opposite), and I have never accused Spencer supporters of being paid- yet I've been accused multiple times.

And you're correct, there absolutely is more to leadership than just pretty numbers. That's why it's an unintelligent idea to put someone who's never held and executive office in charge of a $1B+ budget and organization that employees thousands of people.
Like I said, you know better than everyone else!  Wonder why all those shiny facts and figures haven't swayed the masses?  Maybe the majority of STL City voters are the ones living in an alternate reality?  How could they possibly ignore how much better things are now than they were 4 years ago?!!!  Why is Tishaura Jones such a hard sell this time around, when she's running against the very same challenger she beat last time?  Out of touch.  Tonedeaf.  Echo chamber.  Broken record.  Have you asked your neighbors why they didn't turn out for TJ?  Might be a more effective use of your energy than regurgitating the same ol' same ol' on the urbanist forum.

Ultimately, your misguided campaigning tactics are helping Cara Spencer more than they're helping Tishaura Jones. 
Yet another Reddit rant. You're just not a serious person in any way shape or form.
To use your own words, "it's just an Internet forum bro." lol :)

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PostMar 12, 2025#1134

I have growing suspicions that Cara will pretty quickly reveal a plan for some type of merger. No evidence, just fortune telling.

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PostMar 12, 2025#1135

addxb2 wrote:
Mar 12, 2025
I have growing suspicions that Cara will pretty quickly reveal a plan for some type of merger. No evidence, just fortune telling.
She says she wants the city to re-enter the county as a municipality. I agree with that on the surface so I wouldn't mind her pursuing that.

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PostMar 12, 2025#1136

addxb2 wrote:
Mar 12, 2025
I have growing suspicions that Cara will pretty quickly reveal a plan for some type of merger. No evidence, just fortune telling.
Don’t think so. Merger of any sorts requires a visionary and exceptional leader. That ain’t Cara

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PostMar 12, 2025#1137

^grapes are sour this afternoon huh?

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PostMar 12, 2025#1138

She’s just not, I don’t think that’s controversial, I mean the track record or little of it that it does exists clearly shows that. This region hasn’t had a visionary and exceptional political or business leader since I’ve been here and I got here in 1996

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PostMar 12, 2025#1139

I don’t disagree, DB. I think a visionary leader has to come from the business community and we haven’t really had that. Local politics never attracts our best and brightest. Hard to get a true visionary in City Hall for a job that pays like $130K.

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PostMar 13, 2025#1140

Auggie wrote:
Mar 12, 2025
jivecitystl wrote:
Mar 12, 2025
Auggie wrote:
Mar 12, 2025

It's just so blatantly apparent that you have not been following what I post on here. You very clearly can't keep track at all.

I've posted comprehensive arguments in favor of my position 3 times, I went over the entire Spencer campaign website and explained issues that I had, and I even made a list of multiple points on things I disagree with Jones while back.

I have never said any individuals are voting against Jones because of her race, I have never claimed that Jones is perfect (actually the exact opposite), and I have never accused Spencer supporters of being paid- yet I've been accused multiple times.

And you're correct, there absolutely is more to leadership than just pretty numbers. That's why it's an unintelligent idea to put someone who's never held and executive office in charge of a $1B+ budget and organization that employees thousands of people.
Like I said, you know better than everyone else!  Wonder why all those shiny facts and figures haven't swayed the masses?  Maybe the majority of STL City voters are the ones living in an alternate reality?  How could they possibly ignore how much better things are now than they were 4 years ago?!!!  Why is Tishaura Jones such a hard sell this time around, when she's running against the very same challenger she beat last time?  Out of touch.  Tonedeaf.  Echo chamber.  Broken record.  Have you asked your neighbors why they didn't turn out for TJ?  Might be a more effective use of your energy than regurgitating the same ol' same ol' on the urbanist forum.

Ultimately, your misguided campaigning tactics are helping Cara Spencer more than they're helping Tishaura Jones. 
Yet another Reddit rant. You're just not a serious person in any way shape or form.
He is a very serious person, with a shop and brand beloved throughout the region and country. The person that needs to brand others with such vitriol is often what they see others as. -1 point for August.

I deduct another point from Auggie for not understanding that telling other people that their own lived experience is not true nor relevant is a form of gaslighting. Funny, I think they’ve seen so much of it from politics that they’ve adopted the tactic without consciously knowing how they are.

I also give Jive an additional point for the “Weekend at Bernie’s” reference.

The winner is clear. Small business beats smug, condescending gaslighter.

926

PostMar 13, 2025#1141

So I was and am a Jones supporter.

One thing I’ve held against Spencer but am now trying to think of as a potentially positive thing is her relationship with McKee and Bob Clark. Is it possible that they’d work with Spencer on getting the Bottle District and Northside Regeneration properties into the city’s hands, or make a serious attempt at developing their parcels? These people control so much of our city, and frankly in my opinion, own the most prevalent eyesore parcels in the city - Carr School, parcels north of the Convention Center, the land surrounding the NGA on all sides, and obviously many others. It’s an unfathomable drag on our city.

Does anyone have insight? Could her relationship with them be a positive thing? Would they work with us on this disaster?

I’ve accepted Spencer will likely win, so trying to think of new areas where our city might progress.

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PostMar 13, 2025#1142

When you take $200,000 from someone and win and anything you do with that person later, it will smell. The media will be all over it.  Challengers usually get a free pass from media in elections but when you’re in the office you’re no long a challenger.

tw speaking of Clark, he was texting a media member and called me a “chicken sh*t bootlicker” but what Bob didn’t know is that I was having happy hour with that media member and there really isn’t many in the media that I’m not friends with or have a good relationship (minus fox2, really don’t having many connections there).  Had a nice chat with Bob since, I’ll leave it at that

926

PostMar 13, 2025#1143

^But I would see it as a positive thing if they are able to work together and splice off these properties to many new developers with plans. I’m not suggesting corruption. I’m suggesting that after 12 years of nothing, we finally get some movement on the issue.

I know Jones has made headways in seizing the properties but if Mckee was just willing to work with the city on selling to new developers with RFPs that would be more efficient and faster and cheaper.

I would also worry that Spencer lets Clark and Mckee just do what they want and speculate on the land and do nothing to actually improve the city ever.

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PostMar 13, 2025#1144

Let's do a fun activity. Everyone who has been posting on this thread or reading along, give Tishara Jones a score out of 10 for how good or bad you think she has been as mayor. You don't need to explain, just provide your score if you want to.

0 is really bad and 10 is really good.

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PostMar 13, 2025#1145

Auggie wrote:
Mar 13, 2025
Let's do a fun activity. Everyone who has been posting on this thread or reading along, give Tishara Jones a score out of 10 for how good or bad you think she has been as mayor. You don't need to explain, just provide your score if you want to.

0 is really bad and 10 is really good.
I too have a fun activity. Let’s rate how serious a person everyone thinks Auggie is. 0 being not serious at all and 10 being very serious.

I’ll go first: 1

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PostMar 13, 2025#1146

Auggie wrote:
Mar 13, 2025
Let's do a fun activity. Everyone who has been posting on this thread or reading along, give Tishara Jones a score out of 10 for how good or bad you think she has been as mayor. You don't need to explain, just provide your score if you want to.

0 is really bad and 10 is really good.
Tishara: 8
Cara: 4

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PostMar 13, 2025#1147

This basically sums up what happened with TJ.

“She disappointed activists with support for police raises, fights with jail watchdogs and breakups of homeless camps. Missteps with a grant program riled North Side business owners, and a fight with the wife of a prominent pastor irked some North Side pastors. Residents all over, from north to south, boiled about the state of city services, from trash trucks that showed up days late, to potholes left open for months.

And that was before the big snowstorm hit in January, and streets were covered in ice for weeks. The city's response got such poor reviews, Jones publicly apologized, multiple times.”

Tishaura Jones’ winning coalition in St. Louis broke apart. What happened?
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 58b9d.html

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PostMar 13, 2025#1148

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1BZuNh ... tid=wwXIfr

Might be a little too late but her main backers and reason she won in 2021 finally endorse Jones. Generally endorsements themselves mean nothing, it’s the people the org brings is the value

PostMar 13, 2025#1149

addxb2 wrote:
Mar 13, 2025
This basically sums up what happened with TJ.

“She disappointed activists with support for police raises, fights with jail watchdogs and breakups of homeless camps. Missteps with a grant program riled North Side business owners, and a fight with the wife of a prominent pastor irked some North Side pastors. Residents all over, from north to south, boiled about the state of city services, from trash trucks that showed up days late, to potholes left open for months.

And that was before the big snowstorm hit in January, and streets were covered in ice for weeks. The city's response got such poor reviews, Jones publicly apologized, multiple times.”

Tishaura Jones’ winning coalition in St. Louis broke apart. What happened?
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 58b9d.html
From the story

“Lana Stein, the retired University of Missouri-St. Louis professor who wrote the book on St. Louis politics, said it's not over yet. Jones still has a few weeks left to campaign, and she has seasoned advisors who know how to tear down an opponent.”

I think this is probably a convo at the jones camp right now, whether to do this or not. Do you go all out to tear Spencer down to try to win or do you know you’ll lose anyway and now it’s about how much do you want to wound her going into her admin

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PostMar 13, 2025#1150

The media will push a horserace narrative as reality is not nearly as fun to write/read about

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