Yup, that about sums up our business community the past several years. See other cities newly invented downtowns - go wow [insert city where business community has pumped millions of dollars in investment and committed to office space] looks great, it’s a shame what has happened to ours . *Hands up* downtown is too dangerous, not enough parking, it’s far, there’s nothing to do or eat anymore, so we have no choice but to be in Clayton or Maryland Heights or Chesterfield.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Here is the consensus position of those CEOs on downtown: they think it’s very important to the region, they want to see it vibrant and be the feature of the region but they want someone else to do whatever it takes to do that.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Cara does have that support, and her going in very well may be a positive if she brought those hqs and jobs back to downtown and the city, But i’m not confident it is anything more for those county CEOs and Bob Clark than “I don’t like Tishaura Jones” and we won’t actually see the corps and companies buy in. Let’s hope they do thoughdbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Mar 10, 2025If Cara follows through with this in April, she will find herself in a very difficult position for several reasons.
First, she will be starting just a week after the election, which means it will take months before she can appoint “her people” to key positions. Additionally, the budget for the next fiscal year is already being finalized, limiting her ability to make immediate financial decisions or implement her priorities.
Second, many of her major donors—particularly West County CEOs—see her as a savior and a direct contrast to Mayor Jones. Consciously or subconsciously, they believe she will be more effective at handling basic governance simply because she is a white moderate in their eyes. This perception creates significant pressure for her to deliver on these so-called “simple” tasks. However, she is unlikely to succeed for several reasons: she lacks experience in handling such responsibilities, the mayor’s office has limited power due to decades of convoluted policies, bureaucratic procedures, union contracts, and an outdated city charter.
On that note, I strongly believe the city should simply take action regardless of charter constraints and let legal challenges arise if necessary. That said, I expect reality will set in quickly for Cara, and we will see her start backpedaling on many of her initial promises.
That mind set with not change on April 8th
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It's such a joke. No city can thrive without the support of its business sector yet STL's does nothing but b****.
It doesn't help that companies like Ameren, Wells Fargo, and Purina have subruban HQs separated from core downtown. Would help alot for those three to move to actual downtown.
It doesn't help that companies like Ameren, Wells Fargo, and Purina have subruban HQs separated from core downtown. Would help alot for those three to move to actual downtown.
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The West County CEO vote isn't where Jones hemorrhaged support.
That was in the progressive wards of south city.
That was in the progressive wards of south city.
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This has nothing to do with vote counting, it’s about expectations of big monied donors. I don’t know how you miss on thatBaltimore Jack wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025The West County CEO vote isn't where Jones hemorrhaged support.
That was in the progressive wards of south city.
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Well this thread is about the 2025 Mayoral Election so I thought a discussion of why south side progressives changed their votes so greatly in four years might be worth having.
Post fact world. You keep asking this question and I keep answering. Keep up.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Well this thread is about the 2025 Mayoral Election so I thought a discussion of why south side progressives changed their votes so greatly in four years might be worth having.
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Auggie wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Post fact world. You keep asking this question and I keep answering. Keep up.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Well this thread is about the 2025 Mayoral Election so I thought a discussion of why south side progressives changed their votes so greatly in four years might be worth having.
Your answer is noted. I would like to see if others have more nuanced replies as to what Spencer did to gain votes in the heart of Jones strongest territory (Progressive south side wards and to a lesser extent North side wards)
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That’s a fine discussion to have in this thread; I just don’t know why you posted it in reference to my post that has nothing to do with that discussion. Sometimes it’s okay to admit that you made a mistake and move on instead of twisting yourself into a pretzelBaltimore Jack wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Well this thread is about the 2025 Mayoral Election so I thought a discussion of why south side progressives changed their votes so greatly in four years might be worth having.
That is easy. People are sick of not having basic services. Trash doesn't get picked up. Roads are terrible. You are lucky to have the police show up if you have an issue. Getting a permit and I assume anything else at City Hall takes 5x longer than it should.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Your answer is noted. I would like to see if others have more nuanced replies as to what Spencer did to gain votes in the heart of Jones strongest territory (Progressive south side wards and to a lesser extent North side wards)Auggie wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Post fact world. You keep asking this question and I keep answering. Keep up.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Well this thread is about the 2025 Mayoral Election so I thought a discussion of why south side progressives changed their votes so greatly in four years might be worth having.
Well, turnout was very low. But again, it comes down to a post-fact world.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Auggie wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Post fact world. You keep asking this question and I keep answering. Keep up.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Well this thread is about the 2025 Mayoral Election so I thought a discussion of why south side progressives changed their votes so greatly in four years might be worth having.
Your answer is noted. I would like to see if others have more nuanced replies as to what Spencer did to gain votes in the heart of Jones strongest territory (Progressive south side wards and to a lesser extent North side wards)
No one cares that crime is down, that the city's economy is growing the best it has in decades, that the city is finally doing basic infrastructure upgrades that other cities have been doing for decades, that we have seen real movement on the biggest vacant buildings in the state. None of that matters. All that matters is that the pre-existing trash pickup issues still exist. And no one cares that we are actively building a new 911 call center along with already increasing their pay to solve that issue.
It's a post-fact world. All that matters is feelings. And it's not that hard to convince people of that when there's nothing but anti-St. Louis media. Same reason the state is taking over the police. Same reason Spencer used conservative language to describe MetroLink expansion, the same MetroLink expansion she has supported for years. It's the same reason no one can form a comprehensive argument for why Spencer should be the mayor.
So let's elect an inexperienced alderwoman who's never held an executive position overseeing any large organization! Makes sense.STLAPTS wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025That is easy. People are sick of not having basic services. Trash doesn't get picked up. Roads are terrible. You are lucky to have the police show up if you have an issue. Getting a permit and I assume anything else at City Hall takes 5x longer than it should.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Your answer is noted. I would like to see if others have more nuanced replies as to what Spencer did to gain votes in the heart of Jones strongest territory (Progressive south side wards and to a lesser extent North side wards)Auggie wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025
Post fact world. You keep asking this question and I keep answering. Keep up.
Post fact world.
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^do you get paid every time you say "Post Fact World"?
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Thing is a lot of those have gotten better during this admin. Like the city roads didn’t just get bad overnight but no admin has invested more in them. Trash pick up has gotten better since covid and even pre covid. If you recall it was so bad pre covid that the city had to put in a $11 (now $14) monthly fee after it was always free.STLAPTS wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025That is easy. People are sick of not having basic services. Trash doesn't get picked up. Roads are terrible. You are lucky to have the police show up if you have an issue. Getting a permit and I assume anything else at City Hall takes 5x longer than it should.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Your answer is noted. I would like to see if others have more nuanced replies as to what Spencer did to gain votes in the heart of Jones strongest territory (Progressive south side wards and to a lesser extent North side wards)Auggie wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025
Post fact world. You keep asking this question and I keep answering. Keep up.
Do you get paid to ignore facts?
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FWIW while I never bought into the CW on here that Jones was waltzing to reelection I thought she was only a slight underdog before the snowstorm.
Part of it is timing. It's a terrible time for incumbents.. if you want to beat that trend you have to really sell what you've accomplished and your vision as well as relate to the voters frustrations. Jones fumbled on all three to some extent but especially the last one.
She also canme into office at the time of the social justice candidate and that phenomenon seems to be receding or at the very least evolving nationwide into more pragmatic concerns. Jones was always an odd fit for that role anyway due to being the scion of a local political family (and one with legal issues unrelated to social justice as well)
Then you have to give Spencer her due. She hustled and took her campaign to the Northside a lot more than I recall her doing in 2021. That helped both narrow the margins in north city and win over skeptical progressives in places like TGS and TGE.
Part of it is timing. It's a terrible time for incumbents.. if you want to beat that trend you have to really sell what you've accomplished and your vision as well as relate to the voters frustrations. Jones fumbled on all three to some extent but especially the last one.
She also canme into office at the time of the social justice candidate and that phenomenon seems to be receding or at the very least evolving nationwide into more pragmatic concerns. Jones was always an odd fit for that role anyway due to being the scion of a local political family (and one with legal issues unrelated to social justice as well)
Then you have to give Spencer her due. She hustled and took her campaign to the Northside a lot more than I recall her doing in 2021. That helped both narrow the margins in north city and win over skeptical progressives in places like TGS and TGE.
I like how you're entire explanation can be summed up in "Facts don't matter, post fact world." Thank you very much.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025FWIW while I never bought into the CW on here that Jones was waltzing to reelection I thought she was only a slight underdog before the snowstorm.
Part of it is timing. It's a terrible time for incumbents.. if you want to beat that trend you have to really sell what you've accomplished and your vision as well as relate to the voters frustrations. Jones fumbled on all three to some extent but especially the last one.
She also canme into office at the time of the social justice candidate and that phenomenon seems to be receding or at the very least evolving nationwide into more pragmatic concerns. Jones was always an odd fit for that role anyway due to being the scion of a local political family (and one with legal issues unrelated to social justice as well)
Then you have to give Spencer her due. She hustled and took her campaign to the Northside a lot more than I recall her doing in 2021. That helped both narrow the margins in north city and win over skeptical progressives in places like TGS and TGE.
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Blame everyone and everything except the incumbent mayor for her sorry showing in the primary. I find most of your posts to come off as rather tone-deaf-- the people have spoken loud and clear. "Turnout was very low"-- yes, it always is in primary elections. It proves that the overwhelming majority of St. Louisans don't care enough who gets elected to Room 200. But that small minority of voters who do care enough overwhelmingly support a change at the top. Yep, despite anemic turnout, Cara Spencer was able to rally a solid base of support that showed up for her at the polls. Where are TJ's fervent supporters? Certainly after 4 "successful" years at the helm there should be plenty of support for the incumbent mayor, right? Why couldn't she inspire enough of her supporters to come out in force for her?Auggie wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Well, turnout was very low. But again, it comes down to a post-fact world.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Your answer is noted. I would like to see if others have more nuanced replies as to what Spencer did to gain votes in the heart of Jones strongest territory (Progressive south side wards and to a lesser extent North side wards)Auggie wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025
Post fact world. You keep asking this question and I keep answering. Keep up.
No one cares that crime is down, that the city's economy is growing the best it has in decades, that the city is finally doing basic infrastructure upgrades that other cities have been doing for decades, that we have seen real movement on the biggest vacant buildings in the state. None of that matters. All that matters is that the pre-existing trash pickup issues still exist. And no one cares that we are actively building a new 911 call center along with already increasing their pay to solve that issue.
It's a post-fact world. All that matters is feelings. And it's not that hard to convince people of that when there's nothing but anti-St. Louis media. Same reason the state is taking over the police. Same reason Spencer used conservative language to describe MetroLink expansion, the same MetroLink expansion she has supported for years. It's the same reason no one can form a comprehensive argument for why Spencer should be the mayor.
My guess is because you can only blame boogeymen and racial politics for all your woes for so long before and people see through those shallow arguments. Mayor Jones won decisively 4 years ago and that proves that St. Louis wanted to give her a shot. She did some good things of course, but so many BASIC LEVEL failures throughout her administration have unfortunately weighed down her legacy much more than anything else, and the people who care enough to participate in the election process are letting it be known. I'm sure if things felt better and there was a stronger sense of optimism in the city under Tishaura Jones the city would have reelected her enthusiastically. Sadly, there really is no enthusiasm for Mayor Jones, even among her most ardent supporters the first time around.
Maybe listening to the voters instead of calling them racist or gullible would yield better results.
Not a single fact or argument cited in this entire spiel except for
The audacity to type this sh*t to me after I've provided comprehensive arguments for my positions multiple times is unprecedented. Truly a joke.
And I agree! If people felt better about Jones, regardless of facts, she would be re-elected! Unfortunately, facts don't matter. So womp womp.jivecitystl wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025I'm sure if things felt better and there was a stronger sense of optimism in the city under Tishaura Jones the city would have reelected her enthusiastically.
The audacity to type this sh*t to me after I've provided comprehensive arguments for my positions multiple times is unprecedented. Truly a joke.
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Another example of tonedeafness. Yeah, FEELINGS MATTER to voters. Not sure why anyone would ever underestimate that in this day and age. All the more reason Tishaura FAILED to inspire any feelings in the general population that things are going well for the city. I concede that yes, some trends and metrics have improved during TJ's tenure (many have not), but that is not enough for voters because SO MANY THINGS are NOT better. Sure, "facts matter" but they aren't the only things that matter. A hallmark of successful leadership is to influence people to your side and inspire confidence in your ability to usher in meaningful and lasting change. As evidenced by the primary results, Tishaura Jones has not been a successful leader. The same people who elected her 4 years ago have concluded that she has not delivered. Your ranting on and on about all the perceived injustice and unfairness ignores the most fundamental FACT of all-- the incumbent mayor is just not popular, even among the people who elected her the first time.Auggie wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Not a single fact or argument cited in this entire spiel except for
And I agree! If people felt better about Jones, regardless of facts, she would be re-elected! Unfortunately, facts don't matter. So womp womp.jivecitystl wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025I'm sure if things felt better and there was a stronger sense of optimism in the city under Tishaura Jones the city would have reelected her enthusiastically.
The audacity to type this sh*t to me after I've provided comprehensive arguments for my positions multiple times is unprecedented. Truly a joke.
For real, if you are in any way part of TJ's campaign, it's no wonder why she hasn't connected with more voters- you don't really care about what most voters care about. In a [blue] city like St. Louis, telling people the earth is flat will not win elections. People are pissed about the state of the city right now and they have plenty to be pissed about.
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In every election voters base their decision on a blend of facts and emotion.
That happened in 2021 when Jones took a majority in the primary and general as well.
To claim "facts don't matter" only when you are losing just makes you sound like a sore loser.
That happened in 2021 when Jones took a majority in the primary and general as well.
To claim "facts don't matter" only when you are losing just makes you sound like a sore loser.
Because this is an internet forum bro. We aren't politicians and we aren't running for office. We should have the intelligence to base our opinions on the facts at hand. I'm sorry you're unable to do that. I couldn't give less of a ***** about what you think is tone deaf. You have yet to cite any fact or provide any argument. I've been told that this isn't reddit yet here you're just doing a reddit rant.jivecitystl wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Another example of tonedeafness. Yeah, FEELINGS MATTER to voters. Not sure why anyone would ever underestimate that in this day and age. All the more reason Tishaura FAILED to inspire any feelings in the general population that things are going well for the city. I concede that yes, some trends and metrics have improved during TJ's tenure (many have not), but that is not enough for voters because SO MANY THINGS are NOT better. Sure, "facts matter" but they aren't the only things that matter. A hallmark of successful leadership is to influence people to your side and inspire confidence in your ability to usher in meaningful and lasting change. As evidenced by the primary results, Tishaura Jones has not been a successful leader. The same people who elected her 4 years ago have concluded that she has not delivered. Your ranting on and on about all the perceived injustice and unfairness ignores the most fundamental FACT of all-- the incumbent mayor is just not popular, even among the people who elected her the first time.Auggie wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Not a single fact or argument cited in this entire spiel except for
And I agree! If people felt better about Jones, regardless of facts, she would be re-elected! Unfortunately, facts don't matter. So womp womp.jivecitystl wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025I'm sure if things felt better and there was a stronger sense of optimism in the city under Tishaura Jones the city would have reelected her enthusiastically.
The audacity to type this sh*t to me after I've provided comprehensive arguments for my positions multiple times is unprecedented. Truly a joke.
For real, if you are in any way part of TJ's campaign, it's no wonder why she hasn't connected with more voters- you don't really care about what most voters care about. In a [blue] city like St. Louis, telling people the earth is flat will not win elections. People are pissed about the state of the city right now and they have plenty to be pissed about.
The "fact" that voters don't like Jones means literally nothing to me. The facts and data are all that matters to me. Keep up.
Then maybe cite some facts and form a comprehensive argument for yourself. It's like you're incapable of doing this simple task.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025In every election voters base their decision on a blend of facts and emotion.
That happened in 2021 when Jones took a majority in the primary and general as well.
To claim "facts don't matter" only when you are losing just makes you sound like a sore loser.
Auggie, you're not even good at being a troll. A good troll at least inserts an ounce of humor and wit to diss other forumers. Your posts are just repetitive, predictable and dismissed by the vast majority of sensible forumers here. Above all, a good troll uses discretion when replying on a forum, but you can't help yourself- do you just sit in front of your screen and hit 'refresh' every 5 seconds to remind everyone that you're extremely bored and lonely? There are constructive ways to get your points across without throwing lame whiny insults at everyone. No one has it out for you, dude, so why do you feel the need to disparage and belittle others. On the bright side, you’re among friends, Auggie. We appreciate your passion for our city and we’re glad you’re here. 
Your opinions (yes, they are opinions, sorry to rain on your insufferable parade), hold no more weight than anyone else's on this forum. It's time for some self-reflection, Auggie. Keep your strong opinions and express them- that's the whole point of this forum! But lose the condescending attitude. You don't have to tear down others every. single. time. Your immaturity is on full display with every post you make.
Your opinions (yes, they are opinions, sorry to rain on your insufferable parade), hold no more weight than anyone else's on this forum. It's time for some self-reflection, Auggie. Keep your strong opinions and express them- that's the whole point of this forum! But lose the condescending attitude. You don't have to tear down others every. single. time. Your immaturity is on full display with every post you make.
I guess you just ignored the multiple times I've written long, comprehensive arguments supported by facts and data.stlgasm wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Auggie, you're not even good at being a troll. A good troll at least inserts an ounce of humor and wit to diss other forumers. Your posts are just repetitive, predictable and dismissed by the vast majority of sensible forumers here. Above all, a good troll uses discretion when replying on a forum, but you can't help yourself- do you just sit in front of your screen and hit 'refresh' every 5 seconds to remind everyone that you're extremely bored and lonely? There are constructive ways to get your points across without throwing lame whiny insults at everyone. No one has it out for you, dude, so why do you feel the need to disparage and belittle others. On the bright side, you’re among friends, Auggie. We appreciate your passion for our city and we’re glad you’re here.
Your opinions (yes, they are opinions, sorry to rain on your insufferable parade), hold no more weight than anyone else's on this forum. It's time for some self-reflection, Auggie. Keep your strong opinions and express them- that's the whole point of this forum! But lose the condescending attitude. You don't have to tear down others every. single. time. Your immaturity is on full display with every post you make.
The facts and data I cite are not opinions, they're facts and data. I don't view the world through my feelings. I view the world through what the facts tell me.
Nothing condescending about my attitude, just the fact that facts > feelings. That's why you feel condescended to.
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"this is an Internet forum bro" yep it sure is, which is why I'm scratching my head that you're wasting so much energy trying to convince us city geeks (who actually do pay attention to this stuff) that TJ is a great mayor rather than asking your friends and neighbors why they didn't turn out for her in the primary. But if you were to do that you'd have to accept their answers, which you seem stubbornly unwilling to do, much like the Jones campaign. Instead blame Spencer voters for being racist or ignorant or naive or averse to facts, etc. It's not at all unexpected. It just doesn't work.Auggie wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Because this is an internet forum bro. We aren't politicians and we aren't running for office. We should have the intelligence to base our opinions on the facts at hand. I'm sorry you're unable to do that. I couldn't give less of a ***** about what you think is tone deaf. You have yet to cite any fact or provide any argument. I've been told that this isn't reddit yet here you're just doing a reddit rant.jivecitystl wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Another example of tonedeafness. Yeah, FEELINGS MATTER to voters. Not sure why anyone would ever underestimate that in this day and age. All the more reason Tishaura FAILED to inspire any feelings in the general population that things are going well for the city. I concede that yes, some trends and metrics have improved during TJ's tenure (many have not), but that is not enough for voters because SO MANY THINGS are NOT better. Sure, "facts matter" but they aren't the only things that matter. A hallmark of successful leadership is to influence people to your side and inspire confidence in your ability to usher in meaningful and lasting change. As evidenced by the primary results, Tishaura Jones has not been a successful leader. The same people who elected her 4 years ago have concluded that she has not delivered. Your ranting on and on about all the perceived injustice and unfairness ignores the most fundamental FACT of all-- the incumbent mayor is just not popular, even among the people who elected her the first time.Auggie wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Not a single fact or argument cited in this entire spiel except for
And I agree! If people felt better about Jones, regardless of facts, she would be re-elected! Unfortunately, facts don't matter. So womp womp.
The audacity to type this sh*t to me after I've provided comprehensive arguments for my positions multiple times is unprecedented. Truly a joke.
For real, if you are in any way part of TJ's campaign, it's no wonder why she hasn't connected with more voters- you don't really care about what most voters care about. In a [blue] city like St. Louis, telling people the earth is flat will not win elections. People are pissed about the state of the city right now and they have plenty to be pissed about.
The "fact" that voters don't like Jones means literally nothing to me. The facts and data are all that matters to me. Keep up.
I applaud you for sticking with your candidate through thick and thin, but all I see/hear is bitterness and resentment with zero self-reflection. At this point it just comes across as willfully out of touch and disinterested in the lived experience of so many fellow St. Louisans. A losing strategy from a losing candidate. Now I fully expect you to tell me why I'm wrong and you're right about everything. Better hurry, only a few weeks till Mayor Spencer is sworn in!