urbanSTL

^ Right. Stan/THF did not purchase Union Station. They may, however, be a partner in its development. That's all we know.

All quiet. They're still exploring the idea, but it takes quite a bit of time. The upside to finding out early is knowing about it, the downside is knowing about it months if not years ahead of any formal agreement/announcement.

Renderings from a Downtown Partnership meeting this morning. They don't tell us much. LHM is spending $63 million on the project. Over $9 million will go to restore the actual shed. We'll get conference space, renovated hotel, museum space, railroad excursions.

O'Loughlin says work to begin by the end of this month. He again mentions "excursion trains", which I don't understand. Would these compete with Amtrak?

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2013/04/22/ ... -to-begin/

^I think the answer is yes and no. I'm assuming the trains will be for event specific dates and times and not for people just wanting to commute back and forth for work/personal reasons; similar to a private tour bus. It would be cool to take one down to Cape Girardeau for a day or down to Lake of the Ozarks though.

Perhaps to Indy for the 500 or Louisville for the Derby, etc. Those wouldn't compete with Amtrak in any way.

Another article about the renovation.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 4abe8.html

The comments section is pure comedy gold.

And off topic: what is this Ed Golterman's deal? Sometimes he has a good point, but most of the time he's one short step from Illuminati/Tri-Lateral Commission/9-11 Conspiracy territory.

Gotta love Ed. His Linkedin page lists "Public Relations and Social Media" as his top skills. And you have to admit, life would be less interesting without him.

I thought an upscale retailer was in the works... I guess not.

Hopefully the excursion train works out.... seems like they could utilize a museum/interpretive portion as part of that project to help as a small attraction.
btw, an excursion train opened a year or to ago in the Columbia area:
http://dinnertrain.com/

JPCosgrove wrote:

dweebe wrote:And off topic: what is this Ed Golterman's deal? Sometimes he has a good point, but most of the time he's one short step from Illuminati/Tri-Lateral Commission/9-11 Conspiracy territory.

He thinks the Kiel Opera House can solve ALL of metropolitan St. Louis' problems and he doesn't like gay people. In a nutshell.

Really? I hadn't noticed that latter aspect of Golterman.

roger wyoming II wrote:I thought an upscale retailer was in the works... I guess not.

Hopefully the excursion train works out.... seems like they could utilize a museum/interpretive portion as part of that project to help as a small attraction.
btw, an excursion train opened a year or to ago in the Columbia area:
http://dinnertrain.com/

JPCosgrove wrote:

dweebe wrote:And off topic: what is this Ed Golterman's deal? Sometimes he has a good point, but most of the time he's one short step from Illuminati/Tri-Lateral Commission/9-11 Conspiracy territory.

He thinks the Kiel Opera House can solve ALL of metropolitan St. Louis' problems and he doesn't like gay people. In a nutshell.

Really? I hadn't noticed that latter aspect of Golterman.

I saw the his recent posts where he got pretty ticked off about Pride Fest being moved downtown to the area around Soldier's Memorial.

It just seems that any article about the city involves him claiming that most of our problems could be solved by the Peabody hosting Broadway plays 300 nights a year.

JPCosgrove wrote:He seems totally oblivious to the fact that the Kiel HAS been restored and it's not having the effect he thinks it should--more proof that silver bullet projects don't magically transform neighborhoods (see: Peabody, Busch Stadium, Union Station, etc.)

Even if it did have Broadway plays 300 nights a year (which is insane), that alone is not going to turn Market into Michigan Ave.

His argument is that Kiel Center should have been done as a performing arts center and not as just another venue with an occasional show and competing for weddings and banquets. I really don't know the capacity/potential of the Kiel facility itself, but it is not insane to expect downtown to have 300 or so nights a year. A downtown performing arts center would be huge, especially helping during winter months. Vibrant downtown performing arts aren't silver bullet, but they help diversify the attractions and bring a steady stream of heavy spenders on a consistent basis. I'd love for downtown Saint Louis to have another 1 million+ visitors a year. Again, I don't know if the Kiel itself could fulfill that role, but the market is there.

roger wyoming II wrote:

JPCosgrove wrote:He seems totally oblivious to the fact that the Kiel HAS been restored and it's not having the effect he thinks it should--more proof that silver bullet projects don't magically transform neighborhoods (see: Peabody, Busch Stadium, Union Station, etc.)

Even if it did have Broadway plays 300 nights a year (which is insane), that alone is not going to turn Market into Michigan Ave.

His argument is that Kiel Center should have been done as a performing arts center and not as just another venue with an occasional show and competing for weddings and banquets. I really don't know the capacity/potential of the Kiel facility itself, but it is not insane to expect downtown to have 300 or so nights a year. A downtown performing arts center would be huge, especially helping during winter months. Vibrant downtown performing arts aren't silver bullet, but they help diversify the attractions and bring a steady stream of heavy spenders on a consistent basis. I'd love for downtown Saint Louis to have another 1 million+ visitors a year. Again, I don't know if the Kiel itself could fulfill that role, but the market is there.

I know I'm sending this further off-tangent so I apologize.

But when you and Ed say "performing arts center" what do you mean? Can you give an example in another city?

I hesitate to weigh in, but Ed's constantly talking about how KC is just killing STL is every respect you can possibly imagine. It's crap, bunk, BS, a mirage. The Peabody is a busy venue. It's a great addition to downtown - simply nothing to complain about there.

The venue was closed for 20 years and did 90 ticketed events, 80 private events and 16 weddings in its first year back. ~150,000 people attended events there.

dweebe wrote:But when you and Ed say "performing arts center" what do you mean? Can you give an example in another city?

A performing arts center is having a number of theaters in the same complex or district under one management roof.... the Kennedy Center in D.C. and Lincoln Center in New York are perhaps the most famous, but they also exist in medium sized cities as well, KC just opened the Kaufman Center. They may provide a range of offerings from ballet to opera to Broadway to whatever.

The one I'm most familiar with is Clevland's Playhouse Square and I think it is most apt in comparison to Saint Louis. Like Saint Louis, the Cleveland Orchestra is located elsewhere but Playhouse Square downtown has the Allen, State, Ohio, Palace and Hannah theaters all in the same compact area under management of the Playhouse Square Foundation. Besides sheer volume, one of the major benefits is that the multiple large-capacity theaters allow for extended Broadway runs of the most popular shows while bringing in other shows at the same time. So Cleveland can have Book of Mormom for an extended run while also hosting another Broadway show for a two week run at the same time, plus resident companies such as the Cleveland Opera, Great Lakes Theater, comedy and music acts, university partnerships and children's shows and whatever else is going on at the time.

Actually, here is the line-up for the next few weeks and its crazy active:
http://www.playhousesquare.org/default. ... ts-Tickets

Edit: The problem with Saint Louis is we only had the Fox stage for Broadway and that ties a lot of hands.... imagine if there were two or three other 2-3,000 seat theaters right next to it. The Peabody helps a bit, but I think only a coordinated performing arts center would allow the city to truly elevate its draw as a major performing arts destination.