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PostOct 27, 2011#101

ebo wrote:What about a museum hub? Kind of like the museum satellite idea discussed in the article. There would be exhibit space designated for the History Museum, SLAM, the Botanical Garden, the Zoo and maybe even the Arch museum. With the different institutions rotating different exhibits through their space.
Too much space is available in US. Apparently the retail area is 140,000 sqft, not including the 11.5 acre area train shed, which is staggering - way more than can be accommodated by a few satellite museum installations. Any use there has to be income generating to make it feasible, without a special tax supporting it (which would not go over well at this time).

I'm loathe to say it but this would be the one time (if my hosptial idea had no demand) where an IKEA would make sense. Shoe-horn it under the shed and ensure all signage faces the highway - it wouldn't detract from the historic front and would provide a valuable regional retail attractor to the downtown area. We'd lose part of the heritage of the shed itself, but I don't think that's more important than the Market St facade, and the benefits IMO would be worth it. Of course, this assumes that the regional demand profile makes sense for IKEA. After all, there's a reason they haven't built one here yet.
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PostOct 28, 2011#102

I would like to see a museum that is so entertaining that people will pay a lot to get in. That's how the City Museum works. I could see something like the private Shark Aquarium of the Smokies in Gatlinburg, TN. working at US. They charge: Adult: $22.99, Child 6-11: $11.99, Child 2-5: $5.99.

My next thought is to do what a commentor suggested -- build on the two successful restaurants on the South End -- Hard Rock and Landry's -- and work toward the Headhouse. I could see a high-end destination restaurants like Houstons or Bucca di Beppo working there. Like Hard Rock, people will go there just to eat at those restaurants.
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PostOct 28, 2011#103

Why not residential? to make it truly a mixed use facility. I would also advocate the daylighting of the former freight tunnel used by metrolink and move the current metrolink union station under the shed.

In other words, why not embrace a TOD development under the shed?

As far as another attempt at a destination or museum. I think this is a non starter considering the great attractions that downtown already has to offer and already compete for entertainment and destination dollars. Especially when you consider attractions such as Arch Groudns (including plans to expand the Westward Museum) and City Museum, to the revitalized Peabody Opera house, to the sporing events, to the City Garden to the number of successful weekend/annual events (Fair St. Louis over the 4th) and now including the running events (Recent St. Louis Rock n Roll adds another to the list). Then throw in the fact that a national developer of entertainment malls/destination spots can't BPV off the ground.
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PostOct 28, 2011#104

I will suggest it again, though I am not a passionate advocate of the idea:
transportation museum?
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PostOct 28, 2011#105

^^ yeah, the more I think about it - no more "attractions" downtown, how about an actual living city? You know, residents, jobs... Why not move the Center for Emerging Technologies down there?
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PostFeb 02, 2012#106

I put together a new post on the trainshed over on YASTLBlog:

http://yastlblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/t ... n-for.html

It's got ferris wheels and rail lines and ice rinks and more. Discuss here some more (if you want to...no pressure) or comment over on the blog post itself. Or both!
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PostFeb 17, 2012#107

Michael Staenberg eyes Union Station

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/prin ... ation.html
I'm including the entire article as it requires a membership to read the entire thing.
The long-awaited redevelopment of Union Station should become a reality any day under the leadership of THF Realty President Michael Staenberg with Bob O’Loughlin’s Lodging Hospitality Management taking over operations of the historic hotel on the property, according to real estate sources.

While none of the participants would confirm the deal — with O’Loughlin acknowledging “we’re looking at that project” — sources say an announcement is imminent.

The 35-acre complex, which anchors the western portion of downtown, was put up for sale last year and bids were accepted until Nov. 10.

Union Station, first opened in 1894, now encompasses about 1.5 million total square feet of space and includes a 539-room Marriott hotel and 184,879 square feet of retail space. Once the busiest passenger rail station in the world, the trains stopped running in 1978 and the complex was closed until a $150 million renovation was completed in 1985 that included national retailers and restaurant chains.

But the development has struggled in recent years as retailers and restaurants left and foot traffic decreased. Several of Union Station’s most well-known destinations, such as Houlihan’s restaurant and Key West Café, closed their locations there late last year. The national retailers have mostly been replaced with gift and novelty stores.

One of the problems in finding a buyer, experts said, was the odd mix of a successful hotel coupled with a struggling retail center. The partnership between O’Loughlin and Staenberg could address both the hotel and retail sides of Union Station.

Staenberg, who co-founded THF Realty with Stan Kroenke in 1991, specializes in developing large commercial projects anchored by Wal-Mart stores. THF’s local projects include the Maplewood Commons and the massive Chesterfield Commons, one of the largest strip mall developments in the nation. Its commercial real estate portfolio, includes more than 100 developments valued at over $2 billion.

Staenberg’s involvement in the Union Station project opens up the possibility that a Wal-Mart store could be in the plans for downtown, though Staenberg would not comment on that.

O’Loughlin, chairman and chief executive of Lodging Hospitality Management (LHM), has amassed a hotel portfolio of 18 properties and has a history with Marriott. In addition to Union Station, he is currently negotiating to buy the 601-room St. Louis Airport Marriott for an undisclosed amount. (See story on Page 6.)

Last September, O’Loughlin spent about $15 million to buy the 223-room Doubletree Hotel and Conference Center in Chesterfield, including the $6 million price tag and $9 million for renovations. In July 2011, LHM premiered the Three Sixty rooftop bar at the downtown Hilton St. Louis at the Ballpark, formerly a Marriott, which LHM bought in 2005 and spent $30 million to renovate. Also last year, O’Loughlin’s LHM finished a $13 million renovation of the 108 rooms at the Cheshire Inn in Richmond Heights, which the company bought from the Apted family for $4 million in 2010.

CBRE Group is the sale for owner Union Station Holdings LLC. Jones Lang LaSalle manages the property.

Two buildings in the complex that were foreclosed on by lenders in 2011 — the Powerhouse office building and theater at 401 S. 18th St. and the Grand Central office building at 415 S. 18th St. — are not included in the sale.
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PostFeb 17, 2012#108

Man, a Wal-Mart? The damn thing should be our majestic transit hub!

We need to be more creative than possibly a Wal-Mart. It all just feels creepy and shameful and Idiocracy-ish. I live in the city because I don't like things like Chesterfield Commons. I grew up in that, I don't need anymore of it.

Obviously I'm jumping to conclusions...
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PostFeb 17, 2012#109

Wouldn't a lot of people think that it's JUST RIGHT for Missouri to take a place like Union Station and turn it into a Wal Mart?
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PostFeb 17, 2012#110

It would definitely generate traffic. Never seen an empty Walmart anywhere! lol In all honesty though, I would prefer to see Union Station as our new multimodal facility that was our old multimodal facility.
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PostFeb 17, 2012#111

I have a hard time imagining anyone, even THF, putting a Wal-Mart in Union Station. It just doesn't seem to make sense. Is there anywhere near enough parking? Does Wal-Mart ever re-use old buildings? If not, is St. Louis a likely place for a flagship model?
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PostFeb 17, 2012#112

Well, Union Station is not going to become a transit hub again. So what to do? I don't shop at WalMart, but I'm not entirely opposed to one at US either. The issue, in some ways, would be the execution of the store.
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PostFeb 17, 2012#113

Alex Ihnen wrote:Well, Union Station is not going to become a transit hub again. So what to do? I don't shop at WalMart, but I'm not entirely opposed to one at US either. The issue, in some ways, would be the execution of the store.
Haven't they started discussing/implementing "urban" Walmarts? I thought there was an article on here 12-15 months ago about the topic, but I'm eating lunch and don't feel like searching for it. If not gaudy, like Alex says, might be a good thing for DT. It might provide incentive for other retailers (Target) to move closer to the urban core & steal away some of Walmart's profit. It would also provide a good chunk of tax $$ that may currently be going into Maplewood's pocket.
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PostFeb 17, 2012#114

My preference would be the Museum of Transportation.
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PostFeb 17, 2012#115

Staenberg’s involvement in the Union Station project opens up the possibility that a Wal-Mart store could be in the plans for downtown, though Staenberg would not comment on that.
Let's not jump to conclusions. Nowhere does it say in the Bizjournal article that a Walmart would be a part of Union Station. I don't think it will:

1. How do you successfully operate a high-end Marriott in the same building as a Walmart?
2. The Union Station layout is not suited for a Walmart.

More likely, US will be rejuvenated as a mall, with possibly a new Walmart store nearby in the future. (I admit it's all speculation at this point.)
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PostFeb 17, 2012#116

^ Right - not IN Union Station, but next to it, if anywhere. It's been clearly stated as speculation, but THF does Walmarts.
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PostFeb 17, 2012#117

Alex Ihnen wrote:^ Right - not IN Union Station, but next to it, if anywhere. It's been clearly stated as speculation, but THF does Walmarts.
A lot of property is going to open up just to the west of Union Station when they tear out the interchange. If THF wants to come in and build a walmart, seems like a prime location while keeping Union Station more upscale retail.
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PostFeb 17, 2012#118

Whether it is a Walmart, Target, or Mall being proposed for Union Station, I think any redevelopment plan should be mixed-use and include residential.
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PostFeb 17, 2012#119

Looking at potential positives, WalMarts, and especially a new one in the central city, result in more businesses locating there... of course then you get into relocations and likely new chains pulling business from local merchants...
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PostFeb 17, 2012#120

Alex Ihnen wrote:^ Right - not IN Union Station, but next to it, if anywhere. It's been clearly stated as speculation, but THF does Walmarts.
Sure. I was still responding to the comments about a possible Walmart inside Union Station. While I was writing there were like four more posts up. Sorry, can't keep up with your furious pace :)
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PostFeb 17, 2012#121

Alex Ihnen wrote:^ Right - not IN Union Station, but next to it, if anywhere. It's been clearly stated as speculation, but THF does Walmarts.
Second the opinion as well as Goat's

Some pure speculation on my part but you have to wonder.

1) What discussion have or will take place between Stanberg and McKee? Those two are lining to be the two biggest players for West/North downtown and Northside
2) Stan K/THF however you want to look at, if this deal goes through, has a major presence in the RAMS and Union Station in the two parts of downtown that are next to the two biggest blocks of developable space. Do you take the Union Station deal as faith in St. Louis City, specifically downtown itsef? I think that is big when you have someone with money to do things
3) As Alex & Count noted, it doesn't make sense that Walmart goes into Union Station. However. I would say one is going to be proposed by end of year.

My last thought, Bottle works and Union Station in my opinion offer truly a great opportunity to bring in mixed use targeting new residential. I see Pinnacle's phase II development with some changes being proposed at/or around Union Station and Bottle works. In other words, any development proposing more office towers or entertainment malls will not go any further then Ballpark Village has gone unless McKee or maybe now Stan K can deliver a major corporate relocation.
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PostFeb 17, 2012#122

Alex Ihnen wrote:Well, Union Station is not going to become a transit hub again. So what to do? I don't shop at WalMart, but I'm not entirely opposed to one at US either. The issue, in some ways, would be the execution of the store.
Say whaa...?! You're not opposed to a Wal-Mart at Union Station? A Wal-Mart...at Union Station. Did you knock back an early batch of Hurricanes, Alex?

Union Station can and should become a transit hub again. It won't as an Amtrak hub (unless the city really blows up in the next decade or two and Amtrak changes its stance on back-out trainsheds), but it can work as a local passenger rail system. I used Chicago's heavy-rail Metra system as an example on a recent blog post (link in signature). It'll take some strategy and effort, but we can have a regional system that compliments the current (and future) Metrolink routes.

Finally...no, no, a thousand times no, to a Wal-Mart at Union Station. Or 22nd Street. Or the Near North Side. Why would we want a city as unique and historic as St. Louis to have, sitting in its center, a characterless, classless Wal-Mart? I have been in a couple of "urban Wal-Marts" jammed into old buildings, but the design is less than stunning. I think Wal-Mart will take that concept out of its playbook soon.
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PostFeb 17, 2012#123

According to the tweets, "Count on Downtown" is teasing us again.
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PostFeb 17, 2012#124

^ How so?
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PostFeb 18, 2012#125

I am really against a Wal-Mart in an amazing space like this but my friends in Chicago really like this new version of Wal-Mart:

http://chicago.racked.com/archives/2011 ... keview.php
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