urbanSTL

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

Jun 12, 2025

matguy70 wrote: ↑

Jun 12, 2025

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

Jun 11, 2025

What is KC doing right? I know it’s less riders overall but looking at their frequencies and coverage, it’s not real strong. Is this purely driven by them making it free?

I would guess our reduction in ridership has mainly came from two areas - metro east IL and south/west county. Metrolink single lines (red in far metro east and blue in southwest county) seeing huge dip in ridership because of 20 minute headways and the buses just being far too apart in frequency (lots of 40 minute and hour routes) to realistically take them longer distances . Someone might know but that would be my guess

Metrolink running its 20 minute headways 98% on time is a classic example of setting the bar low and meeting expectation. While I also don’t want to see a CTA game of saying certain trains and buses come every 6-8 minutes to make it look like there’s great frequency when they in fact do not come close to that, metrolink can push itself a little harder, even if to 15.

KC doing right with transit?  Nothing.
They have cut the bus system back so much it is horrible.  These numbers, most likely, refñect the free 3 miles streetcar line. Key word: FREE.  I can walk faster than that tram and it is not a viable transit system IMO

Yea, that was my impression of it. So was surprised to see their system holding ridership over peers.

I’m happy their streetcar is working and carrying development so well but it does perplex my notion of what type of transit really works for people and moves the needle. Don’t totally get why the KC streetcar has been so successful for them compared to what I consider to be more functional and usable transit lines in other cities

From what I understand, their streetcar runs through their most urban areas. Would be like one from downtown to the CWE. Now it's being connected to UMKC, so there's gonna be tons of students who ride it for entertainment or commutes.

I do tend to agree though that it would be a lot more transformative if it was built with signal priority and have its own ROW.

I think they'll see ridership fall off if they put a fare in.

KC transit system as a whole is garbage, but the streetcar route itself is actually fantastic. It's not so much a transit solution as it is a walking accelerator. It connects a ton of important destinations and will soon connect even more. It is also FREE, which IMO is important for these slower systems with stops closer together. 

The equivalent system for us would be something going down Wash Ave connecting Downtown to Grand Center. The equivalent extension would be extending it down Lindell into the CWE. Metrolink is awesome, but a solid tram system would be very useful for densifying our spread out Central Corridor

Could their system be better? Absolutely, it runs in traffic and doesn't have stoplight priority. Those are both fixable, and in the meantime the route is important so it will continue to get riders. 

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Jun 12, 2025

KC transit system as a whole is garbage, but the streetcar route itself is actually fantastic. It's not so much a transit solution as it is a walking accelerator. It connects a ton of important destinations and will soon connect even more. It is also FREE, which IMO is important for these slower systems with stops closer together. 

The equivalent system for us would be something going down Wash Ave connecting Downtown to Grand Center. The equivalent extension would be extending it down Lindell into the CWE. Metrolink is awesome, but a solid tram system would be very useful for densifying our spread out Central Corridor

Could their system be better? Absolutely, it runs in traffic and doesn't have stoplight priority. Those are both fixable, and in the meantime the route is important so it will continue to get riders. 

Isn't the extension going to have some parts with its own ROW? 

I was thinking the same on something along that line. Noticed too could be done in a way that allows for dedicated lanes.  Was looking at at Olive/Lindell alignment between Downtown and Forest Park Metrolink Station. See branches that go to Soulard and through Forest Park. If there is some way to also connect it to Gateway Transportation Center that would also be useful. This also brings up the idea of converting and upgrading Loop Trolley route to be legit transit.

https://www.apta.com/research-technical ... ip-report/

MetroLink ridership continues to climb, up 7.9% in the 2nd Quarter, 10.5% YTD. MetroLink had 3.78 million riders in the first half of 2025, up from 3.41 million in the first half of 2024. Still down significantly from Q2 2019 at only 57.9% of 2019 ridership.

MetroBus ridership, however, continued to decline. It dropped 9.85% in the 2nd Quarter and 8.4% YTD. There were nearly 6.4 million riders in the first half of 2024, but slightly under 5.85 million in 2025's first half. This is a disappointing 52.9% of 2019's first half.

Madison County Transit ridership grew 2.12% in the 2nd Quarter, but still down 0.13% YTD. There was about 1,000 less riders in 2025, 798k vs 799k in the first half of 2025 vs 2024. This is 76.2% of 2019 ridership.

Overall, Metro Transit ridership was down 2.8% in the 2nd Quarter and 1.3% YTD, only 55.1% of 2019's first half ridership.

Was at the Cards game yesterday, left the stadium a little bit later than the rest of the crowds. Went to get on the metro and found out the westbound blue line was scheduled to restart at 11:59 PM and it was only 9:20 PM. I just don't understand the thought process to completely cut off services for a three hour time span. How is anyone supposed to rely on it?

TRUESONJB wrote: ↑

Sep 04, 2025

Was at the Cards game yesterday, left the stadium a little bit later than the rest of the crowds. Went to get on the metro and found out the westbound blue line was scheduled to restart at 11:59 PM and it was only 9:20 PM. I just don't understand the thought process to completely cut off services for a three hour time span. How is anyone supposed to rely on it?

Blue Line has not been running after 6 PM on weekdays for like 4 months now. They have been doing construction under Union Station, apparently requiring one track to be closed. So they single track from Stadium to Grand, greatly reducing the possible frequencies.

You are told to take the Red Line to Forest Park and then switch to the Blue Line.

MetroLink ridership broke 700,000 in August for the first time since COVID.

Can they run trains more often, please?

If I were in charge, some quick improvements would be

1) More trains, like every 20 minutes at all times? I remember when it was every 10 during rush hour and 15 minutes all day

2) Adding a third track segment between Grand and Union Station (maybe also between Civic Center & Stadium) so that when they're doing track work Downtown the blue line can run past Forest Park

dweebe wrote: ↑

Nov 03, 2025

How much is the FARE REQUIRED on the main display helping with revenue?

It looks so bad I hate it so much.

PeterXCV wrote: ↑

Nov 03, 2025

If I were in charge, some quick improvements would be

1) More trains, like every 20 minutes at all times? I remember when it was every 10 during rush hour and 15 minutes all day

2) Adding a third track segment between Grand and Union Station (maybe also between Civic Center & Stadium) so that when they're doing track work Downtown the blue line can run past Forest Park

It’s practically every 10 minutes for anyone in the city since blue and red overlap

It should be every 5-7 min like a real system. Missing a train shouldn’t be an inconvenience

Hoping we get ETA signs going eventually. Or even just printed timetables (which would be fine considering the trains usually run consistently on time)

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Nov 11, 2025

Hoping we get ETA signs going eventually. Or even just printed timetables (which would be fine considering the trains usually run consistently on time)

There are printed timetables on the platforms, no?

https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads ... p-APTA.pdf

Overall Metro ridership dropped by 5.71% in Q1 of 2026, driven by a more than 13% decline in bus ridership. The only worse preforming bus system in Q1 was Milwaukee's, which saw an 18.2% decline. MetroLink ridership increased by over 4%, however. March had more than 23,000 daily MetroLink riders, about 1,500 more daily than last March. MetroLink's ridership increase was actually slightly better than the average of 3.87%.

Madison County Transit saw fixed route bus ridership decline of 5.6%, overall system decline of 5.2%.

Kansas City had fixed route bus ridership decline of 4.71% and overall system decline of 4.54%.

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Jesus, 13%? I wonder what accounted for such a big fall.

https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/2026-Q2-Ridership-APTA.pdf

Overall Metro ridership jumped a massive 12.3% in the 2nd Quarter, up 10.7% for the year. MetroLink ridership was up 5.3% for the quarter and 4.7% year to date while MetroBus ridership totally reversed last quarter's decline with a 16.4% quarterly increase and 13.7% year to date.

There has been more than 1 million more system-wide riders in 2026 than 2025 YTD. I have no idea why this data says what it says as the Q1 data showed a pretty decent decline in system ridership, driven by a 13% decline in bus ridership. I'm also not aware of any major frequency changes that were made? Unless I missed something? So very strange, but obviously really good if true. 10.9 million riders in the first half of 2026 is 61% of 2019's 17.8 million.

Madison County Transit had 3% decline in system-wide YTD ridership and a 2.97% decline in fixed-route YTD ridership.

KCATA in Kansas City had a more than 20% decline in system-wide ridership in Q2, driven by a 21% decline in bus ridership. YTD, their system-wide ridership is down nearly 13%. I assume a decent chunk of this is the streetcar expansion, which took over for some high ridership bus routes, but clearly the streetcar does not generate much new ridership on the buses. Pretty sure this data would be from before the large service cuts.

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...ridership is up, so they want to reduce train size by half.  Makes sense.

https://cmt-stl.org/metro-transit-proposes-one-car-metrolink-trains/

I'm the ridership is up by that much then those are good news

https://cmt-stl.org/bi-state-moves-forward-with-one-car-metrolink-train-pilot/?fbclid=IwdGRjcAUWTaRwZG9mAWZkaWQWUOcckXNplSZvnRa60Uun_QZU02o3QWV4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkCjY2Mjg1NjgzNzkAAR5P8eVZwlpDpMLhJxQBxXvGMapcT5y0qOAcSwLxhpqdi8UPUxYMS7GMBxLeMA_aem_4uuBTeguMtjRWaYGHdcq8w

CMT says Metro will be moving forward with the single-car pilot from October to December with potential full implementation in March of 2027.

CMT's survey has 80% opposing this change and only 20% supporting.

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