PostJan 24, 2025#151
Change in Vehicle Revenue Hours (VRH) of public transportation services provided between 2019 - 2024 and 2023 - 2024. St. Louis (Bi-State, Madison County) remains significantly under 2019 service hours but added more in the last year than most regions.
Growth in 2024 came from 16% increase of Bi-State services, an 11.5% increase in bus services, 40% increase in Demand Response services, and 7.9% increase in MetroLink services. Madison County made cuts in 2024, roughly 6.4% reduction with -7.1% in bus services specifically.
Growth in 2024 came from 16% increase of Bi-State services, an 11.5% increase in bus services, 40% increase in Demand Response services, and 7.9% increase in MetroLink services. Madison County made cuts in 2024, roughly 6.4% reduction with -7.1% in bus services specifically.
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This definitely reflects more on how bad things were for the system in 2022 than how good things are now. I'm very gad to see that we are returning back to normal though. Still a long ways to go, but we have left the viscous cycle and are re-entering the virtuous cycle (or at least a period of stability)
https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads ... APTA.1.pdf
MetroLink Q1 ridership is up 13.57% from last year, MetroBus down 6.77%.
MetroLink ridership for Q1 is only 58.4% of Q1 2019, MetroBus ridership is only 54.3%, overall train+bus ridership is only 55.8% of Q1 2019.
Midwestern peer cities compared to 2019:
Kansas City- 96.5%
Pittsburgh- 56.8%
Minneapolis- 58.1%
Cleveland- 85.1%
Indianapolis- 75.6%
Milwaukee- 93.6%
Cincinnati- 97.9%
MetroLink Q1 ridership is up 13.57% from last year, MetroBus down 6.77%.
MetroLink ridership for Q1 is only 58.4% of Q1 2019, MetroBus ridership is only 54.3%, overall train+bus ridership is only 55.8% of Q1 2019.
Midwestern peer cities compared to 2019:
Kansas City- 96.5%
Pittsburgh- 56.8%
Minneapolis- 58.1%
Cleveland- 85.1%
Indianapolis- 75.6%
Milwaukee- 93.6%
Cincinnati- 97.9%
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Time to increase the frequencies. It’s the only thing that will bring riders back.
Bi-state has the capacity to do 10 minute metrolink frequency and several 10 minute bus frequency routes. Need to get all the moderately significant routes to 15-20 as well.
People aren’t going to ride 30 minute and hour frequency routes. It’s too easy to drive and park in St. Louis for people to choose the bus in these scenarios.
They have the data on where ridership can get better. Focus on the frequencies on those routes and build back the numbers using the system
Bi-state has the capacity to do 10 minute metrolink frequency and several 10 minute bus frequency routes. Need to get all the moderately significant routes to 15-20 as well.
People aren’t going to ride 30 minute and hour frequency routes. It’s too easy to drive and park in St. Louis for people to choose the bus in these scenarios.
They have the data on where ridership can get better. Focus on the frequencies on those routes and build back the numbers using the system
I live right on a bus route and have seen the effects of this first hand.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025Time to increase the frequencies. It’s the only thing that will bring riders back.
Bi-state has the capacity to do 10 minute metrolink frequency and several 10 minute bus frequency routes. Need to get all the moderately significant routes to 15-20 as well.
People aren’t going to ride 30 minute and hour frequency routes. It’s too easy to drive and park in St. Louis for people to choose the bus in these scenarios.
They have the data on where ridership can get better. Focus on the frequencies on those routes and build back the numbers using the system
- I no longer ride it because it went from 20 minute headways to a 40 or 60 minute headways.
- I see fewer people on the bus.
I was at the sold out Kendrick Lamar and SZA concert. There was also a Cardinals game going on the same time. Metro didn't even increase the train frequency for these two major events going on. Downtown was pack and the Metro trains were at capacity. Also, the stations and trains were dirty. Smelled like urine at almost every station and train I was on last week. I hope when Metro gets the new trains they don't let them get trashed. Metrolink is such an awesome amenity and the region definitely does not seem to see it's value at all.
The Cardinal game didn't happen: it was rained out.goat314 wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025I was at the sold out Kendrick Lamar and SZA concert. There was also a Cardinals game going on the same time. Metro didn't even increase the train frequency for these two major events going on. Downtown was pack and the Metro trains were at capacity. Also, the stations and trains were dirty. Smelled like urine at almost every station and train I was on last week. I hope when Metro gets the new trains they don't let them get trashed. Metrolink is such an awesome amenity and the region definitely does not seem to see it's value at all.
Regardless of that, I don't think Metro has added trains for special events for 10 (if not more) years.
Expect big changes by new director for Metro. Charles was not a visionary. New guy knows how to run light rail.
God I hope so, Metro's leadership has been terrible for decades.
I didn't know the Cardinals game was canceled. There were definitely a lot of people headed to BPV then. Then when the Kendrick Lamar concert let out there were easily 50,000 people near the convention center. There was no police directing traffic or doing any kind of crowd control. It was absolutely nuts. I had to wait on a Westbound train for about 30 mins. Oddly enough, it seemed like Eastbound trains were coming by every 10 minutes or so. It may have been delays from the tornando damage. Who knows. It was cool to see packed trains, but the general condition of the trains and train stations were horrible.dweebe wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025The Cardinal game didn't happen: it was rained out.goat314 wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025I was at the sold out Kendrick Lamar and SZA concert. There was also a Cardinals game going on the same time. Metro didn't even increase the train frequency for these two major events going on. Downtown was pack and the Metro trains were at capacity. Also, the stations and trains were dirty. Smelled like urine at almost every station and train I was on last week. I hope when Metro gets the new trains they don't let them get trashed. Metrolink is such an awesome amenity and the region definitely does not seem to see it's value at all.
Regardless of that, I don't think Metro has added trains for special events for 10 (if not more) years.
It seems like the new guy was running transit in the Twin Cities. It will be interesting to see what he can do. I think funding is a big difference though. Minneapolis can actually depend on the state of Minnesota to properly help fund it's transit system. We used to be ahead of them in light rail and they've blown past us the past decade or so.
Not only did they not add frequency, they also actually were doing track work between Civic Center and Grand, so it was single tracked, making for an extra long wait. I have absolutely no clue who's bright idea it was to continue with the track work on nights with a Cardinals game and soccer game one night and then a rained out Cardinals game and a large concert the next. Absolutely beyond stupid.goat314 wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025I was at the sold out Kendrick Lamar and SZA concert. There was also a Cardinals game going on the same time. Metro didn't even increase the train frequency for these two major events going on. Downtown was pack and the Metro trains were at capacity. Also, the stations and trains were dirty. Smelled like urine at almost every station and train I was on last week. I hope when Metro gets the new trains they don't let them get trashed. Metrolink is such an awesome amenity and the region definitely does not seem to see it's value at all.
The no/few police thing has been pretty much the norm since the Rams left. Whether it be Battlehawks, monster trucks, motocross or country music concerts; vehicle and pedestrian traffic is an unregulated disaster around the Dome. Were there any police, security or Metro people at the Convention Center station for Kendrick Lamar?goat314 wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025I didn't know the Cardinals game was canceled. There were definitely a lot of people headed to BPV then. Then when the Kendrick Lamar concert let out there were easily 50,000 people near the convention center. There was no police directing traffic or doing any kind of crowd control. It was absolutely nuts. I had to wait on a Westbound train for about 30 mins. Oddly enough, it seemed like Eastbound trains were coming by every 10 minutes or so. It may have been delays from the tornando damage. Who knows. It was cool to see packed trains, but the general condition of the trains and train stations were horrible.dweebe wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025The Cardinal game didn't happen: it was rained out.goat314 wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025I was at the sold out Kendrick Lamar and SZA concert. There was also a Cardinals game going on the same time. Metro didn't even increase the train frequency for these two major events going on. Downtown was pack and the Metro trains were at capacity. Also, the stations and trains were dirty. Smelled like urine at almost every station and train I was on last week. I hope when Metro gets the new trains they don't let them get trashed. Metrolink is such an awesome amenity and the region definitely does not seem to see it's value at all.
Regardless of that, I don't think Metro has added trains for special events for 10 (if not more) years.
The "secret" for going west is go to the Arch/Landing and getting on there. Or go to 8th/Pine for going east. Now the old Metro with decent staffing knew that so back in the Rams days they wouldn't let people do that. But I clued my wife into that for the Pink concert and she said it wasn't a problem.
dweebe wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025The no/few police thing has been pretty much the norm since the Rams left. Whether it be Battlehawks, monster trucks, motocross or country music concerts; vehicle and pedestrian traffic is an unregulated disaster around the Dome. Were there any police, security or Metro people at the Convention Center station for Kendrick Lamar?goat314 wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025I didn't know the Cardinals game was canceled. There were definitely a lot of people headed to BPV then. Then when the Kendrick Lamar concert let out there were easily 50,000 people near the convention center. There was no police directing traffic or doing any kind of crowd control. It was absolutely nuts. I had to wait on a Westbound train for about 30 mins. Oddly enough, it seemed like Eastbound trains were coming by every 10 minutes or so. It may have been delays from the tornando damage. Who knows. It was cool to see packed trains, but the general condition of the trains and train stations were horrible.dweebe wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025The Cardinal game didn't happen: it was rained out.
Regardless of that, I don't think Metro has added trains for special events for 10 (if not more) years.
The "secret" for going west is go to the Arch/Landing and getting on there. Or go to 8th/Pine for going east. Now the old Metro with decent staffing knew that so back in the Rams days they wouldn't let people do that. But I clued my wife into that for the Pink concert and she said it wasn't a problem.
There were no guards at the station at 8th and Pine. There was definitely no cops directing traffic downtown. There were tens of thousands of people downtown and people were walking in the streets, jumping on cars, dancing in the streets, smoking marijuana and drinking in the streets etc. I've been too many major concerts around the country and I've never seen this total lack of security or coordination. The CVC and Metro really dropped the ball. Luckily there were no fights or shooting, but it could have definitely been bad if people wanted to start trouble. With that said, it was definitely great for downtown businesses and hotels. Overall, I think downtown definitely needs a major infusion of infrastructure money. The lighting and streets weren't in the best condition. Metro also probably should have spent the money it spent on the "safety gates" on cleaning and beautifying it's station, which are definitely showing their wear and tear from 30 years of use.dweebe wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025The no/few police thing has been pretty much the norm since the Rams left. Whether it be Battlehawks, monster trucks, motocross or country music concerts; vehicle and pedestrian traffic is an unregulated disaster around the Dome. Were there any police, security or Metro people at the Convention Center station for Kendrick Lamar?goat314 wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025I didn't know the Cardinals game was canceled. There were definitely a lot of people headed to BPV then. Then when the Kendrick Lamar concert let out there were easily 50,000 people near the convention center. There was no police directing traffic or doing any kind of crowd control. It was absolutely nuts. I had to wait on a Westbound train for about 30 mins. Oddly enough, it seemed like Eastbound trains were coming by every 10 minutes or so. It may have been delays from the tornando damage. Who knows. It was cool to see packed trains, but the general condition of the trains and train stations were horrible.dweebe wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025The Cardinal game didn't happen: it was rained out.
Regardless of that, I don't think Metro has added trains for special events for 10 (if not more) years.
The "secret" for going west is go to the Arch/Landing and getting on there. Or go to 8th/Pine for going east. Now the old Metro with decent staffing knew that so back in the Rams days they wouldn't let people do that. But I clued my wife into that for the Pink concert and she said it wasn't a problem.
Believe it or not, Convention Center Station was just re-opened from a refurbishment.goat314 wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025dweebe wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025The no/few police thing has been pretty much the norm since the Rams left. Whether it be Battlehawks, monster trucks, motocross or country music concerts; vehicle and pedestrian traffic is an unregulated disaster around the Dome. Were there any police, security or Metro people at the Convention Center station for Kendrick Lamar?goat314 wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025
I didn't know the Cardinals game was canceled. There were definitely a lot of people headed to BPV then. Then when the Kendrick Lamar concert let out there were easily 50,000 people near the convention center. There was no police directing traffic or doing any kind of crowd control. It was absolutely nuts. I had to wait on a Westbound train for about 30 mins. Oddly enough, it seemed like Eastbound trains were coming by every 10 minutes or so. It may have been delays from the tornando damage. Who knows. It was cool to see packed trains, but the general condition of the trains and train stations were horrible.
The "secret" for going west is go to the Arch/Landing and getting on there. Or go to 8th/Pine for going east. Now the old Metro with decent staffing knew that so back in the Rams days they wouldn't let people do that. But I clued my wife into that for the Pink concert and she said it wasn't a problem.There were no guards at the station at 8th and Pine. There was definitely no cops directing traffic downtown. There were tens of thousands of people downtown and people were walking in the streets, jumping on cars, dancing in the streets, smoking marijuana and drinking in the streets etc. I've been too many major concerts around the country and I've never seen this total lack of security or coordination. The CVC and Metro really dropped the ball. Luckily there were no fights or shooting, but it could have definitely been bad if people wanted to start trouble. With that said, it was definitely great for downtown businesses and hotels. Overall, I think downtown definitely needs a major infusion of infrastructure money. The lighting and streets weren't in the best condition. Metro also probably should have spent the money it spent on the "safety gates" on cleaning and beautifying it's station, which are definitely showing their wear and tear from 30 years of use.dweebe wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025The no/few police thing has been pretty much the norm since the Rams left. Whether it be Battlehawks, monster trucks, motocross or country music concerts; vehicle and pedestrian traffic is an unregulated disaster around the Dome. Were there any police, security or Metro people at the Convention Center station for Kendrick Lamar?goat314 wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025
I didn't know the Cardinals game was canceled. There were definitely a lot of people headed to BPV then. Then when the Kendrick Lamar concert let out there were easily 50,000 people near the convention center. There was no police directing traffic or doing any kind of crowd control. It was absolutely nuts. I had to wait on a Westbound train for about 30 mins. Oddly enough, it seemed like Eastbound trains were coming by every 10 minutes or so. It may have been delays from the tornando damage. Who knows. It was cool to see packed trains, but the general condition of the trains and train stations were horrible.
The "secret" for going west is go to the Arch/Landing and getting on there. Or go to 8th/Pine for going east. Now the old Metro with decent staffing knew that so back in the Rams days they wouldn't let people do that. But I clued my wife into that for the Pink concert and she said it wasn't a problem.
See, back in the Rams days they'd have multiple people working that station: even for non-football events.goat314 wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025There were no guards at the station at 8th and Pine. There was definitely no cops directing traffic downtown. There were tens of thousands of people downtown and people were walking in the streets, jumping on cars, dancing in the streets, smoking marijuana and drinking in the streets etc. I've been too many major concerts around the country and I've never seen this total lack of security or coordination. The CVC and Metro really dropped the ball. Luckily there were no fights or shooting, but it could have definitely been bad if people wanted to start trouble. With that said, it was definitely great for downtown businesses and hotels. Overall, I think downtown definitely needs a major infusion of infrastructure money. The lighting and streets weren't in the best condition. Metro also probably should have spent the money it spent on the "safety gates" on cleaning and beautifying it's station, which are definitely showing their wear and tear from 30 years of use.
And I'm convinced the Dome doesn't hire any extra staff the way that Enterprise and Busch Stadium do to help with traffic around those venues.
I will say though I have noticed Metro has cut the staff at the Civic Center station after Blues games. I swear they'd have as many as 8 to 10 people working: now it's just 3 or 4.
Also, some.of the concert goers for that particular concert have a reputation anyway... in every city they play. 
Not really, it was a very diverse crowd of all ages and races. Kendrick and SZA have a wide demographic. The whole row in front of me were teenage white girls from St. Charles.matguy70 wrote: ↑Jun 10, 2025Also, some.of the concert goers for that particular concert have a reputation anyway... in every city they play.
When I used to ride Metro for Blues games I'd do something similar. Head to Union Station to get on the eastbound train.dweebe wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025The no/few police thing has been pretty much the norm since the Rams left. Whether it be Battlehawks, monster trucks, motocross or country music concerts; vehicle and pedestrian traffic is an unregulated disaster around the Dome. Were there any police, security or Metro people at the Convention Center station for Kendrick Lamar?goat314 wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025I didn't know the Cardinals game was canceled. There were definitely a lot of people headed to BPV then. Then when the Kendrick Lamar concert let out there were easily 50,000 people near the convention center. There was no police directing traffic or doing any kind of crowd control. It was absolutely nuts. I had to wait on a Westbound train for about 30 mins. Oddly enough, it seemed like Eastbound trains were coming by every 10 minutes or so. It may have been delays from the tornando damage. Who knows. It was cool to see packed trains, but the general condition of the trains and train stations were horrible.dweebe wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025The Cardinal game didn't happen: it was rained out.
Regardless of that, I don't think Metro has added trains for special events for 10 (if not more) years.
The "secret" for going west is go to the Arch/Landing and getting on there. Or go to 8th/Pine for going east. Now the old Metro with decent staffing knew that so back in the Rams days they wouldn't let people do that. But I clued my wife into that for the Pink concert and she said it wasn't a problem.
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Reducing headways should be the top priority.dweebe wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025I live right on a bus route and have seen the effects of this first hand.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025Time to increase the frequencies. It’s the only thing that will bring riders back.
Bi-state has the capacity to do 10 minute metrolink frequency and several 10 minute bus frequency routes. Need to get all the moderately significant routes to 15-20 as well.
People aren’t going to ride 30 minute and hour frequency routes. It’s too easy to drive and park in St. Louis for people to choose the bus in these scenarios.
They have the data on where ridership can get better. Focus on the frequencies on those routes and build back the numbers using the system
- I no longer ride it because it went from 20 minute headways to a 40 or 60 minute headways.
- I see fewer people on the bus.
At my previous job (pre COVID) I used to travel 20-25% of the time. I always used to do a bus + Metrolink combo and it was never an issue with the old 20 minute bus headways. There's no way in hell I'd do that now with fewer trains and fewer buses.imperialmog wrote: ↑Jun 11, 2025Reducing headways should be the top priority.dweebe wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025I live right on a bus route and have seen the effects of this first hand.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Jun 09, 2025Time to increase the frequencies. It’s the only thing that will bring riders back.
Bi-state has the capacity to do 10 minute metrolink frequency and several 10 minute bus frequency routes. Need to get all the moderately significant routes to 15-20 as well.
People aren’t going to ride 30 minute and hour frequency routes. It’s too easy to drive and park in St. Louis for people to choose the bus in these scenarios.
They have the data on where ridership can get better. Focus on the frequencies on those routes and build back the numbers using the system
- I no longer ride it because it went from 20 minute headways to a 40 or 60 minute headways.
- I see fewer people on the bus.
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What is KC doing right? I know it’s less riders overall but looking at their frequencies and coverage, it’s not real strong. Is this purely driven by them making it free?
I would guess our reduction in ridership has mainly came from two areas - metro east IL and south/west county. Metrolink single lines (red in far metro east and blue in southwest county) seeing huge dip in ridership because of 20 minute headways and the buses just being far too apart in frequency (lots of 40 minute and hour routes) to realistically take them longer distances . Someone might know but that would be my guess
Metrolink running its 20 minute headways 98% on time is a classic example of setting the bar low and meeting expectation. While I also don’t want to see a CTA game of saying certain trains and buses come every 6-8 minutes to make it look like there’s great frequency when they in fact do not come close to that, metrolink can push itself a little harder, even if to 15.
I would guess our reduction in ridership has mainly came from two areas - metro east IL and south/west county. Metrolink single lines (red in far metro east and blue in southwest county) seeing huge dip in ridership because of 20 minute headways and the buses just being far too apart in frequency (lots of 40 minute and hour routes) to realistically take them longer distances . Someone might know but that would be my guess
Metrolink running its 20 minute headways 98% on time is a classic example of setting the bar low and meeting expectation. While I also don’t want to see a CTA game of saying certain trains and buses come every 6-8 minutes to make it look like there’s great frequency when they in fact do not come close to that, metrolink can push itself a little harder, even if to 15.
delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Jun 11, 2025What is KC doing right? I know it’s less riders overall but looking at their frequencies and coverage, it’s not real strong. Is this purely driven by them making it free?
I would guess our reduction in ridership has mainly came from two areas - metro east IL and south/west county. Metrolink single lines (red in far metro east and blue in southwest county) seeing huge dip in ridership because of 20 minute headways and the buses just being far too apart in frequency (lots of 40 minute and hour routes) to realistically take them longer distances . Someone might know but that would be my guess
Metrolink running its 20 minute headways 98% on time is a classic example of setting the bar low and meeting expectation. While I also don’t want to see a CTA game of saying certain trains and buses come every 6-8 minutes to make it look like there’s great frequency when they in fact do not come close to that, metrolink can push itself a little harder, even if to 15.
KC doing right with transit? Nothing.
They have cut the bus system back so much it is horrible. These numbers, most likely, refñect the free 3 miles streetcar line. Key word: FREE. I can walk faster than that tram and it is not a viable transit system IMO
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Yea, that was my impression of it. So was surprised to see their system holding ridership over peers.matguy70 wrote: ↑Jun 12, 2025delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Jun 11, 2025What is KC doing right? I know it’s less riders overall but looking at their frequencies and coverage, it’s not real strong. Is this purely driven by them making it free?
I would guess our reduction in ridership has mainly came from two areas - metro east IL and south/west county. Metrolink single lines (red in far metro east and blue in southwest county) seeing huge dip in ridership because of 20 minute headways and the buses just being far too apart in frequency (lots of 40 minute and hour routes) to realistically take them longer distances . Someone might know but that would be my guess
Metrolink running its 20 minute headways 98% on time is a classic example of setting the bar low and meeting expectation. While I also don’t want to see a CTA game of saying certain trains and buses come every 6-8 minutes to make it look like there’s great frequency when they in fact do not come close to that, metrolink can push itself a little harder, even if to 15.
KC doing right with transit? Nothing.
They have cut the bus system back so much it is horrible. These numbers, most likely, refñect the free 3 miles streetcar line. Key word: FREE. I can walk faster than that tram and it is not a viable transit system IMO
I’m happy their streetcar is working and carrying development so well but it does perplex my notion of what type of transit really works for people and moves the needle. Don’t totally get why the KC streetcar has been so successful for them compared to what I consider to be more functional and usable transit lines in other cities