urbanSTL

St. Louis leadership needs to really get its head out of the sand when it comes to this second rate mentality as far as infrastructure. Whether its some kind of regional tax or whatever. The state of our roads, transit system, and airport is an absolute joke right now. This regional austerity is a huge problem and literally destroying out region.

How many gates are currently used? Vs their proposal? Under 60 seems low but not sure what current utilization is.

And I’d hope they would be able to expand in future if needed.


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Dbehrens0111 wrote: ↑

3:55 PM - Jul 25

How many gates are currently used? Vs their proposal? Under 60 seems low but not sure what current utilization is.

And I’d hope they would be able to expand in future if needed.


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Currently 40ish are leased and there are another 5ish open gates.

I’m guessing final number ends up around 50-54 gates.

Break it out something like for the new terminal
Southwest 20
AA 7
Delta 7
United 6
Frontier 2
Canada 1
Alaska 1
International 6 narrow (3 wide)
new entrant/overflow 4
Total 54

Southwest probably could take 2 of the international gates though so knock 2 off the total, if needed. Just depends how many Southwest wants.

Neither St. Charles or St. Louis County have the money to buy an airport lol

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lot of chatter on reddit about it    https://www.reddit.com/r/StLouis/comments/1v6bhjo/lambert_single_terminal_project_rising_costs/

goat314 wrote:

whitherSTL wrote: ↑

12:20 PM - Jul 25

It’s high-time the city sells a portion of its ownership to St. Louis County and St. Charles County to develop a world-class airport. This current version will be steeped in mediocrity and our region can’t keep accepting mediocrity. At some point we have to rise above.

The only problem I see here is St. Louis County not having the money to become a part-owner of STL. They are broke too.

It's getting out of hand. At this point I almost wish the state would blow up regional government and force a mega merger. Its pathetic how incapacitated St. Louis is to do anything transformative.

This has nothing to do with the airport new terminal program? Fundamentally, this is a project designed by other people, paid for by other people, and approved by other people. Only thing the City could have done was get the airlines moving earlier, which they didn’t want to do.

St. Chuck does.

Government is also being run by the world's dumbest people

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ldai_phs wrote: ↑

6:30 PM - Jul 25

goat314 wrote:

whitherSTL wrote: ↑

12:20 PM - Jul 25

It’s high-time the city sells a portion of its ownership to St. Louis County and St. Charles County to develop a world-class airport. This current version will be steeped in mediocrity and our region can’t keep accepting mediocrity. At some point we have to rise above.

The only problem I see here is St. Louis County not having the money to become a part-owner of STL. They are broke too.

It's getting out of hand. At this point I almost wish the state would blow up regional government and force a mega merger. Its pathetic how incapacitated St. Louis is to do anything transformative.

This has nothing to do with the airport new terminal program? Fundamentally, this is a project designed by other people, paid for by other people, and approved by other people. Only thing the City could have done was get the airlines moving earlier, which they didn’t want to do.

Same with Metrolink.

gone corporate wrote: ↑

7:03 PM - Jul 26

Keep in mind that the airlines are paying for the expansion/redevelopment. Today, costs are spiking for jet fuel, reducing margins greatly for the entire industry. I see this as being far more consequential to Lambert's new terminal than anything else, including how the City owns the airport but not the region. 

I'd think the airline industry has ways of balancing projected energy costs when making capital investments. It'd be awfully shortsighted to limit yourself for 40 years because of six months of middle east conflict.  

addxb2 wrote:

gone corporate wrote: ↑

7:03 PM - Jul 26

Keep in mind that the airlines are paying for the expansion/redevelopment. Today, costs are spiking for jet fuel, reducing margins greatly for the entire industry. I see this as being far more consequential to Lambert's new terminal than anything else, including how the City owns the airport but not the region. 

I'd think the airline industry has ways of balancing projected energy costs when making capital investments. It'd be awfully shortsighted to limit yourself for 40 years because of six months of middle east conflict.  

Yea I’m not sure how much today’s oil prices factor in to decision making beyond construction costs, projected inflation rates, and maybe timing.

Reality is that this 6 month oil shortage is gonna last way longer than 6 months

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While it's disappointing to hear about a scaleback, FWIW I'd much rather they build a quality terminal with fewer gates now than cheap out of the design and/or quality to get more gates.

With a linear concourse it should be a relatively simple thing to add more gates later if needed and when finances permit. It'll be much harder to fancy up a terminal cheapened by cutting costs in the design.

-RBB

My guess is they'll go down to 50 gates (from 62)  
there are about 43 active today 

I've read all the stories on the delay and minor analysis numerous times and still can't say I fully understand what the delay is for and where it all stands. I only know it's taking longer and is more expensive, which seems par for the course for any infrastructure project in the US in 2026.

As STLiens are deliriously pessimistic, many people are saying it's same old, same old half-ass STL leadership but I'm not sure that's even true. I'm *genuinely* not sure. It could very well be! Others blame the fact that the city owns the airport. It's just (beyond) lazy analysis.  

The airport is about the only regional institution that's been punching above it's weight for years (I credit Rhonda), so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for a bit.

No matter, get this sh*t moving! 

rbb wrote: ↑

2:25 PM - Jul 27

While it's disappointing to hear about a scaleback, FWIW I'd much rather they build a quality terminal with fewer gates now than cheap out of the design and/or quality to get more gates.

With a linear concourse it should be a relatively simple thing to add more gates later if needed and when finances permit. It'll be much harder to fancy up a terminal cheapened by cutting costs in the design.

-RBB

We'll probably end up getting a generic design and shorter terminal. Austerity is the order of the day unfortunately.

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

3:09 PM - Jul 27

My guess is they'll go down to 50 gates (from 62)  
there are about 43 active today 

According to flystl.com there are fifty four active gates right now. Several of those are ground gates, with no jetway. The current Google imagery shows forty six jet bridges on A, C, and E, plus two at D4 and D6 that I think were being moved to C 31 and 32. But it also shows Sun Country, so it's clearly a bit out of date. I'd be surprised if there aren't at least fifty active gates right now. (Even ground gates need at least a door and a small hold area.) I doubt they go below fifty five at a minimum, and I wouldn't be surprised if they go at least close to sixty.

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

12:50 AM - Jul 28

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

3:09 PM - Jul 27

My guess is they'll go down to 50 gates (from 62)  
there are about 43 active today 

According to flystl.com there are fifty four active gates right now. Several of those are ground gates, with no jetway. The current Google imagery shows forty six jet bridges on A, C, and E, plus two at D4 and D6 that I think were being moved to C 31 and 32. But it also shows Sun Country, so it's clearly a bit out of date. I'd be surprised if there aren't at least fifty active gates right now. (Even ground gates need at least a door and a small hold area.) I doubt they go below fifty five at a minimum, and I wouldn't be surprised if they go at least close to sixty.

I don't think they will need any ground gates when it opens. Southern is the only airline using ground boarding and they are down to one flight a day to Jonesboro, Arkansas. I will be very surprised if it is still being flown when the new terminal opens. So I wouldn't even put those ground boarding gates into consideration when doing a count. 

^Aren't those two jetbridges at D the ones that were getting moved to C-31 and 32? Or did that fall through? I was under the impression the wall was getting moved east yet again, but maybe that's just prep for closing A anyway. (I'm assuming that in order to close A they'll have to reopen everything in C and D eventually.) Anyway, even if 46 is the real number minus the ground gates, 50 seems pretty tight. 60 might be over optimistic, but DB's estimate feels a bit pessimistic to me. All that said, you know a lot better than I.

No those are old they will get removed I’m sure.

I have the print out of what is going where. But it isn’t loading. 7 are getting moved from A to C/D, 10 will be new. 4 will be scrapped

Yes all of C and D will be reopened. Delta is going at the end of C. United is going into D.

Renderings of the improved Washington Dulles International Airport (IAD)
https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/2082546030206148642