The concern of people are the higher utility costs that due to the additional energy these data centers need, the way to solve that in my opinion is with statewide regulation or even nationwide regulation to define what these data centers would pay. But if those mitigating measures are not enough, wouldn't city resident still pay more for electricity regardless of where in Missouri those data centers are built? If that' true then might as well benefit from the tax revenue these projects will generate, the city should still negotiate to try their best to protect the residents and push for the development to happen in certain locations, but it shouldn't be a drastic no to Data Center no matter what.
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^100% that. New data center developments are coming up outside STL. I heard of a doozy over the weekend that'll make the news soon enough. They're not stopping construction of these things for the foreseeable future. Let's get the tax revenues while we're able! Brownfields, away from residential neighborhoods. Heavy industrial zones. Office parks. Places that are already noisy and prone to conditions that people don't want to live next to. If there's a junk yard across the street but no people, put a data center there and let the City garner new revenues into the tax coffers! We need maybe a billion already to rebuild following the May '2025 Tornado. So, let's get that, and then some more. Because if we don't, then it'll just go to an outlying county anyway. We'll still pay for the electricity bills - seriously, it's like people think utility bills stop at the City/County border. This whole thing is an opportunity for us to grab or let slip out our fingers.
They will stop the construction as soon as the bubble bursts.gone corporate wrote:^100% that. New data center developments are coming up outside STL. I heard of a doozy over the weekend that'll make the news soon enough. They're not stopping construction of these things for the foreseeable future. Let's get the tax revenues while we're able! Brownfields, away from residential neighborhoods. Heavy industrial zones. Office parks. Places that are already noisy and prone to conditions that people don't want to live next to. If there's a junk yard across the street but no people, put a data center there and let the City garner new revenues into the tax coffers! We need maybe a billion already to rebuild following the May '2025 Tornado. So, let's get that, and then some more. Because if we don't, then it'll just go to an outlying county anyway. We'll still pay for the electricity bills - seriously, it's like people think utility bills stop at the City/County border. This whole thing is an opportunity for us to grab or let slip out our fingers.
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@StlAlex Where you just see a bubble, I see new industries and revenues that'll be societally transformative...
How different would STL look today if, in the 19th Century, we would have better invested in the railroads? And won that business from Chicago?
Either way, our electric bills are going up, and new developments that could be in STL are going elsewhere on the periphery of the region. Might as well have the new tax revenues and new developments on industrial brownfields alongside the bigger utility bills.
How different would STL look today if, in the 19th Century, we would have better invested in the railroads? And won that business from Chicago?
Either way, our electric bills are going up, and new developments that could be in STL are going elsewhere on the periphery of the region. Might as well have the new tax revenues and new developments on industrial brownfields alongside the bigger utility bills.
A bubble is when the perceived or believed value of a product far exceeds that of its actual value. What other $840 billion company have you heard of that has done nothing but lose tens of billions of dollars across its life?gone corporate wrote:@StlAlex Where you just see a bubble, I see new industries and revenues that'll be societally transformative...
How different would STL look today if, in the 19th Century, we would have better invested in the railroads? And won that business from Chicago?
Either way, our electric bills are going up, and new developments that could be in STL are going elsewhere on the periphery of the region. Might as well have the new tax revenues and new developments on industrial brownfields alongside the bigger utility bills.
The railroads actually had a product that made people's lives and the economy better. AI has been proven to just make people's lives worse and the economy weaker.
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^Railroads :: Data Centers = false analogy.
Electric bills don't necessarily have to increase for anyone--these are investment and policy choices made by capitalists and governments. Didn't we collectively semi-privatize electric utilities over the last twenty years on the promise that public-private partnerships unleash capitalist magic that lowers prices AND improves quality? All part of the same basket of lies told by industry to delude the public into believing AI adoption/Data center construction is great and/or inevitable for everyone. Next you'll be telling us StL must build data centers now, because otherwise China/Russia/boogeyman du jour will do it first, and then we'll all be sad losers bound for communist reeducation camps.
Let's grant for a minute that your analogy isn't hogwash and data centers really must be built here, now, or we're all doomed. The fact remains that developers don't want to build on industrial brownfields, and they don't want to pay taxes or make other concessions either. They want to build wherever its cheapest and easiest and provides the largest return the quickest, for them (and whichever government stooges can be bribed the least to make it happen). Everyone else can pound sand.
Electric bills don't necessarily have to increase for anyone--these are investment and policy choices made by capitalists and governments. Didn't we collectively semi-privatize electric utilities over the last twenty years on the promise that public-private partnerships unleash capitalist magic that lowers prices AND improves quality? All part of the same basket of lies told by industry to delude the public into believing AI adoption/Data center construction is great and/or inevitable for everyone. Next you'll be telling us StL must build data centers now, because otherwise China/Russia/boogeyman du jour will do it first, and then we'll all be sad losers bound for communist reeducation camps.
Let's grant for a minute that your analogy isn't hogwash and data centers really must be built here, now, or we're all doomed. The fact remains that developers don't want to build on industrial brownfields, and they don't want to pay taxes or make other concessions either. They want to build wherever its cheapest and easiest and provides the largest return the quickest, for them (and whichever government stooges can be bribed the least to make it happen). Everyone else can pound sand.
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This Urban Legend really needs to die. StL invested in Railroads like crazy.gone corporate wrote: ↑9:49 PM - Mar 30How different would STL look today if, in the 19th Century, we would have better invested in the railroads? And won that business from Chicago?
Chicago was better situated geographically to move ag products/raw materials and later manufactured goods to East Coast markets than StL.
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What Happens When AI Stops Being Artificially Cheap
The subsidy era is ending. Here's what comes next
https://danielmiessler.com/blog/ai-stops-being-artificially-cheap
The subsidy era is ending. Here's what comes next
https://danielmiessler.com/blog/ai-stops-being-artificially-cheap
I swear, if some of you guys were around in 18th Century England, you would have opposed the Industrial Revolution.
Bunch of Luddites.
Bunch of Luddites.
First railroads, now it's the industrial revolution. Lmao.
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Didn't the industrialists behind that revolution characterize the people pushing back against pollution, child labor, unsafe working conditions, exploitative contracts, and a host of other effects of the industrial revolution as just that; Luddites? Major societal changes often bring benefits. They also tend to bring negative consequences. The game isn't to prevent change, but to soften the landing so that the ratio between benefits and consequences is more favorable. I'm not pushing to ban data centers, but I do like considering them carefully, figuring out where they're appropriate, and how to handle any problems they might cause.framer wrote: ↑1:43 AM - Mar 31I swear, if some of you guys were around in 18th Century England, you would have opposed the Industrial Revolution.
Bunch of Luddites.
No one on here is pushing to fully ban data centers. I'm pretty sure all of us agree that there's lots of land on the north riverfront to build tons of data centers. The closest we've come is wanting a moratorium so real and thorough regulations can be put in place. But none of them have a real argument for their position, so they have to make exaggerative analogies and name call. 100% will not get banned though because we know the rules are not enforced equally on here.symphonicpoet wrote:Didn't the industrialists behind that revolution characterize the people pushing back against pollution, child labor, unsafe working conditions, exploitative contracts, and a host of other effects of the industrial revolution as just that; Luddites? Major societal changes often bring benefits. They also tend to bring negative consequences. The game isn't to prevent change, but to soften the landing so that the ratio between benefits and consequences is more favorable. I'm not pushing to ban data centers, but I do like considering them carefully, figuring out where they're appropriate, and how to handle any problems they might cause.framer wrote: ↑1:43 AM - Mar 31I swear, if some of you guys were around in 18th Century England, you would have opposed the Industrial Revolution.
Bunch of Luddites.
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Scientists have found an alarming environmental impact of vast data centers
https://www.cnn.com/2026/03/30/climate/data-centers-are-having-an-underrported
https://www.cnn.com/2026/03/30/climate/data-centers-are-having-an-underrported
And wasn't on pause during the Civil War.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑10:20 PM - Mar 30This Urban Legend really needs to die. StL invested in Railroads like crazy.gone corporate wrote: ↑9:49 PM - Mar 30How different would STL look today if, in the 19th Century, we would have better invested in the railroads? And won that business from Chicago?
Chicago was better situated geographically to move ag products/raw materials and later manufactured goods to East Coast markets than StL.
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The age of the civilian data centre is over
https://thenextweb.com/news/iran-irgc-18-us-tech-companies-military-targets
https://thenextweb.com/news/iran-irgc-18-us-tech-companies-military-targets
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It was also like half the size. Maybe if we ever can get rid of the stupid f-ing Jones Act we can see inland marine development blossom again in the United States but I’m won’t hold my breath.quincunx wrote: ↑2:09 PM - Mar 31And wasn't on pause during the Civil War.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑10:20 PM - Mar 30This Urban Legend really needs to die. StL invested in Railroads like crazy.gone corporate wrote: ↑9:49 PM - Mar 30How different would STL look today if, in the 19th Century, we would have better invested in the railroads? And won that business from Chicago?
Chicago was better situated geographically to move ag products/raw materials and later manufactured goods to East Coast markets than StL.
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^I suspect the biggest effect of repealing the Jones Act would be to lose every vessel on the Mississippi to overseas tax havens. We'd lose every shipping company in the Mississippi Valley, too. The Jones Act isn't just about ship building, it's also about vessel registration and the taxes that go with it. It's about vessel ownership, and crewing requirements. It's a many faceted thing. And if we want to have any US merchant marine at all we absolutely need it. Maybe it needs reform. Maybe domestic shipbuilders and shipping lines need subsidies. (They absolutely do.) Maybe there should be *gasp* tariffs on certain cargoes carried in hulls not flagged in the United States. But there is absolutely a purpose to the Jones Act, and wholesale repeal would be pretty dire.
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AI data centres can warm surrounding areas by up to 9.1°C
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2521256-ai-data-centres-can-warm-surrounding-areas-by-up-to-9-1c/
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2521256-ai-data-centres-can-warm-surrounding-areas-by-up-to-9-1c/
Stl PR - After $6B data center plan, Festus voters oust every incumbent council member
https://www.stlpr.org/government-politi ... cil-member
https://www.stlpr.org/government-politi ... cil-member
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Home of Indianapolis city councilor shot at over his support of datacenters
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/apr/06/indianapolis-city-council-home-shot-at-data-centers
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/apr/06/indianapolis-city-council-home-shot-at-data-centers
They could have passed a moratorium. Let's not deny them agency hmm?dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑7:05 PM - 14 days agoWhy? The way city’s system works the ultimate decision is made by 5 residents at the board of adjustment